Dismantling of Cat empire

[Lance Uppercut]

17 wins, 5 losses, no consecutive losses. Yeah that was being beaten regularly.

Fact is, Cats were only a sniff away from beating the Saints in the QF. They would probably have faced off against the Pies in a 4th consecutive GF. And lost...

without Ablett you would have been smashed.

Now you don't have Ablett. Just sayin'....

 

[Bring back Moloney]

It's karma for Frank Costa.

Came on radio early this year and bagged the Pies over their coaching set up.

Who is laughing now Frank? Destroyed in the prelim, best player walks, coach walks, assistants on the way out, Milburn resigned.

Lol, Geelong are proof that AFL is a brutal business and you have to make the most of your time in the sun cos it does not take long for the fall to come.

Whats the point of this post? We smashed you in a Prelim in 09. You won it this year. Obviously that 09 loss wasn't the end of the world.

You say we need to take advantage of our time in the sun? Well, we have won 2 flags, I'd say that's taking advantage. And we finished the season 2nd on the ladder, 2 points behind Collingwood.

I suggest you wait & see if Geelong fall next year before you suggest our time is over.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

without Ablett you would have been smashed.

Now you don't have Ablett. Just sayin'....

That's a nice simple view.

 

[JatzCracker]

Rabble

 

[Lance Uppercut]

That's a nice simple view.

Are you disagreeing with me or just being generally defensive?

 

[Archangel]

Rabble

I hope your mob doesn't do a Hawthorn post 08'.... that would funny

 

[Whiskers]

I hope your mob doesn't do a Hawthorn post 08'.... that would funny

They will, its Collingwood.
A club that like 1990 will get so far ahead of themselves that they will believe they are better then they are. Have a look at their list, not that many stars, just coached well and play well as a team and they will be told by soooooo many collingwood people that they are better players then they really are and believe it. Not a good mix, and alot of the players are, how should i say it?..........well run into trouble regularly.

Swan, Didak, Beams, Shaw, Davis, Cloke, Wellingham, Dick and now Krak off the top of my head. Just to many players that can lead each other astray especially once they have achieved the ultimate. They got their flag earlier then expected like the hawks in 08 and will simply be found out.

Young immature group that will not know how to handle success and expectations. This is shown by the past 50 years of Collingwood history. Collingwood are just not equipped these days to handling success. Their fans already now think they have next year won and this will rub off on the players imo.

An opinion pie fans, thats all it is

 

[MachoRandySavage]

We have lost ablett. But then again, Pies will have a couple of boys doing some hard time by the time the ball is bounced next year. Wonder how they'll go being some dudes biatch inside...

 

[Optimax]

We have lost ablett. But then again, Pies will have a couple of boys doing some hard time by the time the ball is bounced next year. Wonder how they'll go being some dudes biatch inside...

Fail

Can't stop suckling at the teat of caro I take it?

And u mad whiskers? Thise big bad collingwood youngins ended your reign and set in motion an implosion no one saw coming.

Enjoy the rot has set in

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Are you disagreeing with me or just being generally defensive?

I don't think it's as simple as - smashed with Ablett = really smashed without him. There's a strong case to say that Ablett was the main driver of the 100% play on kamikaze attack gameplan that played straight into Collingwood's hands.

 

[ripitup27]

without Ablett you would have been smashed.

Now you don't have Ablett. Just sayin'....

It's not as simple as no Ablett, no Geelong.

Since the Cats extraordinairy run started in 2007, Ablett's missed 8 games.
The results of those games were:

Win v Brisbane (27 points)
Win v Western Bulldogs (61 points)
Win v Hawthorn (11 points)
Win v Richmond (63 points)
Win v Sydney (51 points)
Win v Nth Melbourne (70 points)
Loss v Brisbane (43 points)
Win v Richmond (108 points)

Without Ablett the Cats don't become a shaky rabble. What remains to be seen is what happens without Thompson and McCartney and possibly Sanderson.

We've also lost our fitness staff and Frank Costa, as well as Max Rooke.

I think our window has finally closed after four years of contesting, due to age, a new coach and probably a new gameplan, as well as the remarkable Collingwood gameplan, but it's entirely too simplistic to say 'without Ablett the Cats would have been smashed by an even greater margain in the prelim'.

 

[mwalker]

You may be right but the compounding problem is the football public start to take notice. If the draft is seen to be manipulated, they WILL do something about it eventually.

Just like they did with tanking? From memory the AFL don't give a rats hairy rectum what the public think. Never have never will.


According to the AFL tanking has nothing to do with the afl and no club would ever consider manipulating the draft.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I don't think it's as simple as - smashed with Ablett = really smashed without him. There's a strong case to say that Ablett was the main driver of the 100% play on kamikaze attack gameplan that played straight into Collingwood's hands.

so losing the best player in the comp is actually going to be a benefit as he was pretty much responsible for a redundant game-plan?

That's handy

It's not as simple as no Ablett, no Geelong.

I wasn't suggesting it was. Having been one the wrong end of a number of Geelong beltings in their prime, I have a healthy respect for any number of the hooped *****.

The point I was making was responding to someone saying you were a breath away from another GF. In that game, Ablett was the only cat I think that could hold his head up, and in that game, without him you would have been smashed.

I think you sound pretty realistic about the cyclic effect on your team. Whilst they are all legends of your club, you have a core group of players who are getting older, and you've lost some key personnel. Doesn't matter how good you've been, the wheel turns, and I think it's turning now.

Everyone always thinks their kids can step in and fill the breach, but by the very nature of dynasties, they get a few odd games in a star studded team, so look good regardless; but they actually don't get the development other teams give their kids, so invariably they aren't as good as you think they are.

Other teams are on the up. You're on the down. It's pretty simple afaic. That's what equalisation policies achieve, coupled with the tendency to play good players to the detriment of young player development

 

[ripitup27]

I wasn't suggesting it was. Having been one the wrong end of a number of Geelong beltings in their prime, I have a healthy respect for any number of the hooped *****.

The point I was making was responding to someone saying you were a breath away from another GF. In that game, Ablett was the only cat I think that could hold his head up, and in that game, without him you would have been smashed.

I think you sound pretty realistic about the cyclic effect on your team. Whilst they are all legends of your club, you have a core group of players who are getting older, and you've lost some key personnel. Doesn't matter how good you've been, the wheel turns, and I think it's turning now.

Everyone always thinks their kids can step in and fill the breach, but by the very nature of dynasties, they get a few odd games in a star studded team, so look good regardless; but they actually don't get the development other teams give their kids, so invariably they aren't as good as you think they are.

Other teams are on the up. You're on the down. It's pretty simple afaic. That's what equalisation policies achieve, coupled with the tendency to play good players to the detriment of young player development

Yep, no doubt we're on the way down. That core group of players from the 99 draft/trade will start struggling now. The likes of Corey, Enright, Chapman, Mooney, Ling, plus Ottens, Milburn and Wojcinski aren't getting any younger.

The reason younger blokes like Menzel and Duncan look good is because those older blokes make it easy for them. No doubt it will happen with some of our best 22 as well. Players like Mackie, Stokes and I'd even argue a guy like Corey are made to look better than what they are.
Essendon had that post-2001 when you could see really good players like Heffernan, Blumfield and Caracella start dropping off because the team was.

In regards to Ablett, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same breath from the GF. I think most Cats fans consider that breath to be the QF when we lost to the Saints following that free kick. Most of us were confident we would have knocked off the Doggies in the PF considering the 100 point drubbing we gave them at the end of the year.
In the QF I thought Ablett didn;t do much. There were quite a few ahead of him.
Either way Collingwood would have flogged us in the GF.

Anyway, it's been a great ride while it's lasted. Four years is a long time to be up in footy. In the end I think we probably deserved to win three but the nature of footy means we dropped 2008 to a better team on the day. just like the Bombers...they deserved at least two in their 99-01 run.

Footy...the harshest of mistresses but God it's good when it's doing you right.

 

[kranky al]

It's not as simple as no Ablett, no Geelong.

Since the Cats extraordinairy run started in 2007, Ablett's missed 8 games.
The results of those games were:

Win v Brisbane (27 points)
Win v Western Bulldogs (61 points)
Win v Hawthorn (11 points)
Win v Richmond (63 points)
Win v Sydney (51 points)
Win v Nth Melbourne (70 points)
Loss v Brisbane (43 points)
Win v Richmond (108 points)

Without Ablett the Cats don't become a shaky rabble. What remains to be seen is what happens without Thompson and McCartney and possibly Sanderson.

We've also lost our fitness staff and Frank Costa, as well as Max Rooke.

I think our window has finally closed after four years of contesting, due to age, a new coach and probably a new gameplan, as well as the remarkable Collingwood gameplan, but it's entirely too simplistic to say 'without Ablett the Cats would have been smashed by an even greater margain in the prelim'.

we didnt turn into a sack of crap when we lost judd awol with injury and cousins was flicked either - its more of an eventual spiral as people figure out your second tier midfielders and nail how to tag them

a winning team has a certain self belief that will carry it for a while - conversely opposition teams who havnt beaten them in 4 seasons take a while to mentally believe they can.

geelong will do ok next year - its the year after that i reckon will be the test

 

[cynical]

geelong has plenty of quality midfielders so ablett isn't a huge loss

i think when we lose 4+ players that is when we will drop off cos our 26 is pretty solid still

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Yep, no doubt we're on the way down. That core group of players from the 99 draft/trade will start struggling now. The likes of Corey, Enright, Chapman, Mooney, Ling, plus Ottens, Milburn and Wojcinski aren't getting any younger.

The reason younger blokes like Menzel and Duncan look good is because those older blokes make it easy for them. No doubt it will happen with some of our best 22 as well. Players like Mackie, Stokes and I'd even argue a guy like Corey are made to look better than what they are.
Essendon had that post-2001 when you could see really good players like Heffernan, Blumfield and Caracella start dropping off because the team was.

In regards to Ablett, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same breath from the GF. I think most Cats fans consider that breath to be the QF when we lost to the Saints following that free kick. Most of us were confident we would have knocked off the Doggies in the PF considering the 100 point drubbing we gave them at the end of the year.
In the QF I thought Ablett didn;t do much. There were quite a few ahead of him.
Either way Collingwood would have flogged us in the GF.

Anyway, it's been a great ride while it's lasted. Four years is a long time to be up in footy. In the end I think we probably deserved to win three but the nature of footy means we dropped 2008 to a better team on the day. just like the Bombers...they deserved at least two in their 99-01 run.

Footy...the harshest of mistresses but God it's good when it's doing you right.

excellent post

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

so losing the best player in the comp is actually going to be a benefit as he was pretty much responsible for a redundant game-plan?

That's handy

Strawman and sarcasm combined, nice work.

 

[Pie eyed]

Yep, no doubt we're on the way down. That core group of players from the 99 draft/trade will start struggling now. The likes of Corey, Enright, Chapman, Mooney, Ling, plus Ottens, Milburn and Wojcinski aren't getting any younger.

The reason younger blokes like Menzel and Duncan look good is because those older blokes make it easy for them. No doubt it will happen with some of our best 22 as well. Players like Mackie, Stokes and I'd even argue a guy like Corey are made to look better than what they are.
Essendon had that post-2001 when you could see really good players like Heffernan, Blumfield and Caracella start dropping off because the team was.

In regards to Ablett, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same breath from the GF. I think most Cats fans consider that breath to be the QF when we lost to the Saints following that free kick. Most of us were confident we would have knocked off the Doggies in the PF considering the 100 point drubbing we gave them at the end of the year.
In the QF I thought Ablett didn;t do much. There were quite a few ahead of him.
Either way Collingwood would have flogged us in the GF.

Anyway, it's been a great ride while it's lasted. Four years is a long time to be up in footy. In the end I think we probably deserved to win three but the nature of footy means we dropped 2008 to a better team on the day. just like the Bombers...they deserved at least two in their 99-01 run.

Footy...the harshest of mistresses but God it's good when it's doing you right.

Best post on the subject of Geelong in 2 years.

 

[ripitup27]

Thanks guys.

And further to my post, I'm interested in seeing which current Cats players would still be genuine stars at other clubs when not surrounded by a solid, experienced team.

There's only a few I genuinely think would be regarded in the top echelon if they were at a lower side and they would be:

-Joel Selwood
-Jimmy Bartel
-Matthew Scarlett
-Paul Chapman
-Steve Johnson

These guys reek of talent in their positions. Hopefully they'll continue to be solid enough that we're still up there in '11, but Scarlo and Chappy can;t go on forever.

Still, can't tell you how great it is to have a bloke as young and tough as Selwood in the team. True leader and game changer.