Should we play 4 quicks and no spinner in 3rd Test against India?

[Bucking Beads]

Watto is no chance of playing. Harris will play for Lyon IMO. It will be the right call. All things going well we rest Pattinson for Adelaide provided we don't lose at Perth.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Where are you going to draw the line then...we may as well never have another spinner again with your attitude

since our part timers and our fast bowlers are going so well this is the perfect time to 'carry' Lyon...that's if you want to look long term.

Give Patterson a rest, allow Lyon to ***** develop and both bowlers & the future of Aust cricket will be better for it

How hard is that to ***** grasp

You really are grumpy, aren't you, Mrs Lyon. I would probably bring Nathan back in for Adelaide (especially if they want to rest Patto) and I expect the conditions in the West Indies will also suit Lyon, so I fully expect he'll play there too, so you can chill.

I just have a problem with playing him (or anyone, as I think he's very good) for the sake of it, when the conditions don't suit them and suit someone else we have far better. I know it's crazy, but I want us to pick our best team (for the conditions of the coming game) every game. To play each ball on its merits, so to speak, from a selection point of view, to give us our best chance of winning every game. To quote you, how hard is that to ****ing grasp?

If that means Lyon plays, great, if it means he doesn't, I don't give a f***. I put the team ahead of "individuals". This is not the Nathan Lyon Cricket Team, or the Nathan Lyon Development Team, it's the Australian cricket team and we have the whole country to choose from, not just Nathan Lyon. As I've said before, these are also not practise matches, where it's cool to just carry someone for their development, game after game. There is a series and ranking points, etc. up for grabs. It may also not be doing Lyon's confidence any good being largely ignored by Clarke and being played with ease by "tailenders".

You seem to be very concerned about Lyon. Where is your similar concern for Ryan Harris, who has been a huge part of this team and has largely carried our bowling for 18 months? He is a lot better than Lyon at this point in time. Doesn't he deserve a game, especially since he has little time left and Lyon has years? Nathan's time will come, I expect and there are other ways he can develop other than by taking up a spot in the national side, when we have a stronger option and games to win. We are not Port Adelaide, or GWS, or Gold Coast, who are largely in a "development" phase, we're playing to win, as far as I can tell.

As I've also said previously, there is also a new philosophy of providing more "juice" and grass on Australian wickets now, so there will probably be a lot of occasions, both here and overseas, where we'll be playing on wickets that are much more suited to pace than spin, in the coming years. You also factor in the fact that we look to have a real arsenal of fast bowling options at our disposal at the moment and for the forseeable future (Patto, Hilfy, Siddle, Harris, Cummins, Hazlewood, Coulter Nile, Cutting, etc) and we may well be much better off playing 4 "quicks" for perhaps half of our test matches for the forseeable future.

If that means someone like Lyon only plays half the games, because someone like Cummins is going to be a better option for the other half of those games, so be it. We're allowed to be flexible. Like everyone in the AFL quickly got used to lots of interchange rotations, those bowling spin in Australia would quickly get used to the fact they aren't going to be in line to be picked in every test. If they're professional, which they ought to be, as this is their "job", they'll adapt well and realise it's not personal.

As I said, I put what's best for the team ahead of what's best for any of those who may or may not be in it, because the team will always be there, they will not and it's the team that I follow first, not anyone in it. If I'm wrong and it's all about Nathan, then I stand to be corrected.

 

[red+black]

Watto is no chance of playing. Harris will play for Lyon IMO. It will be the right call. All things going well we rest Pattinson for Adelaide provided we don't lose at Perth.

I like it. Go with that.

Perth: Harris IN, Lyon OUT
Adelaide: Lyon IN, Pattinson OUT

 

[Hellgood]

You really are grumpy, aren't you, Mrs Lyon. I would probably bring Nathan back in for Adelaide (especially if they want to rest Patto) and I expect the conditions in the West Indies will also suit Lyon, so I expect he'll play there too.
I just have a problem with playing him (or anyone, as I think he's very good) for the sake of it, when the conditions don't suit them and suit someone else we have far better. I know it's crazy, but I want us to pick our best team (for the conditions of the coming game) every game. To play each ball on its merits, so to speak, from a selection point of view. How hard is that to ****ing grasp?
If that means Lyon plays, great, if it means he doesn't, I don't give a ****. I put the team ahead of "individuals". This is not the Nathan Lyon Cricket Team, or the Nathan Lyon Development Team, it's the Australian cricket team and we have the whole country to choose from, not just Nathan Lyon. As I've said before, these are also not practise matches, where it's cool to just carry someone for their development. There is a series and ranking points, etc. up for grabs. It may also not be doing Lyon's confidence any good being largely ignored by Clarke and being played with ease by "tailenders".
You seem to be so concerned about Lyon. Where is your similar concern for Ryan Harris, who has been a huge part of this team and has largely carried the bowling for 18 months? He is a lot better than Lyon at this point in time, doesn't he deserve a game, especially since he has little time left and Lyon has years?

Epic post.

 

[roostersgal4eva]

Can you stop calling Mrs Lyon FFS - I'm allowed to defend a player if I want

I'm guess I'm mrs Clarke as well for not being a hater then idiot....

If you are really wanting to put the team first then why are you hell bent on having the side chopped and changed ...we had the same revolving door for 2 years because we haven't found the next Shane Warne, can you tell me fine sir how that is putting the team first.

I'm no more mrs Lyon then you are Mr Harris

We are taking 20 in an innings and bowling teams to victory what more do want...it's our batting that's up shit creek we need to drop our keeper a shitload better then we do our spinner

 

[Bucking Beads]

We are not dropping Lyon, it is quite simply using 4 quicks at the WACA because it is generally favorable for the quicks.

 

[eddiesmith]

Surely people have learnt not to attack the only test quality player SA has, you have a whole state ready to pounce when you do

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Surely people have learnt not to attack the only test quality player SA has, you have a whole state ready to pounce when you do

Ed Cowan?

 

[Bucking Beads]

Pattinson won't be playing at Perth, gone for the series. Foot injury

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

Pattinson won't be playing at Perth, gone for the series. Foot injury

Sweet

 

[Jimthegreat]

Starc in for Pattinson next Test.

May save Lyon.

 

[matty p]

Pretty simple now that Pattinson is injured. Harris in, Patto out. Lyon stays in. No way Starc should get anywhere near the XI.

Wade in for Haddin as well, but obviously that won't happen.

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

Starc in for Pattinson next Test.

May save Lyon.

I hope Starc proves me wrong but Im worried they will murder him on a bouncy track.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I hope Starc proves me wrong but Im worried they will murder him on a bouncy track.

I think his bounce will hurt the Indians TBH.

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

I think his bounce will hurt the Indians TBH.

Yeah sure, no worries, but I have visions of Sehwag leaning back and slashing/cutiing 6's over point/gully all day, aswell as the "little Master".

Be a good test for him though either way.

Any news if Haddit pulled up lame?

 

[Jimthegreat]

Wade in for Haddin as well, but obviously that won't happen.

It didn't.

 

[Jimthegreat]

I hope Starc proves me wrong but Im worried they will murder him on a bouncy track.

If he lands a few on target his pace, bounce and swing will be nasty for the Indians. Just all the balls in between that are a worry.

 

[Bucking Beads]

We can certainly afford to have Starc with 4 quicks in the side.

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

We can certainly afford to have Starc with 4 quicks in the side.

Yeah seems fair

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

If Starc is going to thrive, it'd be in Perth wouldn't it? I still don't want him in the side, not yet anyway, but our options are limited.

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

If Starc is going to thrive, it'd be in Perth wouldn't it? I still don't want him in the side, not yet anyway, but our options are limited.

As long as he bowls full or he will be absolutely carted

 

[aussie1st]

Siddle, Hilf, Harris, Starc yep farewell 4 pacemen option.

 

[Outshined]

As long as he bowls full or he will be absolutely carted

That's the problem, I don't think Starc can really control his length enough to bowl to a plan. The one thing he does have in his favour is the Fremantle Doctor, which helped MJ swing the ball prodigiously against England in 2010.

I'd go with Lyon, but it looks like I'm in the minority. In saying that, selecting Starc probably has merit, and I'd love to see him do well.

Of course, this all depends on the pitch next Friday.

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

That's the problem, I don't think Starc can really control his length enough to bowl to a plan. The one thing he does have in his favour is the Fremantle Doctor, which helped MJ swing the ball prodigiously against England in 2010.

I'd go with Lyon, but it looks like I'm in the minority. In saying that, selecting Starc probably has merit, and I'd love to see him do well.

Of course, this all depends on the pitch next Friday.

So I guess he must bowl down wind then...ie from the "new" members end to avoid been slashed with the doctor...

Make the Indians piss into the wind

 

[The Falcon Strike]

That's the problem, I don't think Starc can really control his length enough to bowl to a plan. The one thing he does have in his favour is the Fremantle Doctor, which helped MJ swing the ball prodigiously against England in 2010.

I'd go with Lyon, but it looks like I'm in the minority. In saying that, selecting Starc probably has merit, and I'd love to see him do well.

Of course, this all depends on the pitch next Friday.

If we had another high quality quick - i'd go that way.

But failing that, Lyon bowls with a high release, that should suit the WACA - i'm inclined to go with the spinner over Starc. As such, hopefully Lyon can hold up an end so that we can rotate Hilf, Siddle and Harris.

I like Starc, think he has a really fluent action, just not in the ballpark of test cricket yet.