Ben Richmond to Collingwood

[Vinnie Vegas]

As far as I know, those guys weren't playing footy at any level in the 3 years prior to being picked up.

This guy was - albeit only at school level, hence not registered with a club.

Which is how the AFL's chosen to administer the rule/scheme.


So, say an APS/AGS kid gives away his club footy through his last 3 years of high school. To concentrate on his studies or his cricket or basketball or soccer or whatever, but kept playing school footy - with the next wave of Luke Balls & Chris Judds & Tom Scullys. And dominated.
Is he now an "alternate talent" ?
Is he really what the rule was created for ?

Given some guys have been drafted based largely on their school footy form, that's a definite loop-hole, definite potential there to be exploited.

I'm not suggesting scrapping the scheme, I'm saying playing (school) footy should count as playing footy.

A loophole is when an unintended consequence arises from an ambiguously worded rule or law - From where I stand, this rule is very specifically worded, and under the specified conditions, Ben Richmond is eligible to be signed.

Generally, complaints about loopholes arise when they unfairly favour certain parties. This doesn't favour any one team over another, so I don't see the problem - It's just a loose interpretation of a rule, and not technically a loophole anyway.

Every team has the potential to benefit from this, and they should make hay when the sun shines. If they hadn't realised this was allowed until now, then that's a failing of the recruiting department to properly understand the rules.

I appreciate that you would change the rule if given the chance, but that's a separate issue to suggesting that there is something untoward about the application of the current rule as it stands.

 

[Number 10]

As far as I know, those guys weren't playing footy at any level in the 3 years prior to being picked up.

This guy was - albeit only at school level, hence not registered with a club.

Which is how the AFL's chosen to administer the rule/scheme.


So, say an APS/AGS kid gives away his club footy through his last 3 years of high school. To concentrate on his studies or his cricket or basketball or soccer or whatever, but kept playing school footy - with the next wave of Luke Balls & Chris Judds & Tom Scullys. And dominated.
Is he now an "alternate talent" ?
Is he really what the rule was created for ?

Given some guys have been drafted based largely on their school footy form, that's a definite loop-hole, definite potential there to be exploited.

I'm not suggesting scrapping the scheme, I'm saying playing (school) footy should count as playing footy.

He was in the AIS Basketball academy. I see what you are saying and it is definitely a possibility, but I don't think he would have been offered an AIS placement in basketball if he wasn't heavily entrenched in the game - more so than AFL. Meaning he wouldn't have had much time to play football...

 

[yaco55]

Think what is being suggested, is that the more powerful and wealthy clubs, could give a player incentives to stay out of the loop.

 

[PTizzle]

Think what is being suggested, is that the more powerful and wealthy clubs, could give a player incentives to stay out of the loop.

Until it happens, I think it's just absolute paranoia on the part of some people (although I do agree with Slattery that private school footy should count).

He wasn't a kid who played footy all the time and happened to play some basketball as well, he was an AIS basketball athlete.

Any kid that wants to succeed at the highest level would give themselves every chance by playing through the proper channels, I'd imagine.

It's possible that if we see a lot of success from this then down the line AFL clubs might have a whisper to them, but we haven't yet and it reeks of paranoia. I think it's good that the AFL is encouraging blokes from other sports to come across.

 

[jonesy86]

If Alex Keath isn't a regular first class cricketer in 3 years time, I hope we sign him as an alternative athlete

 

[ManOfClay]

With a name like that he could be the new Leon Davis.

Always on holidays in September.

 

[Slattery_20]

A loophole is when an unintended consequence arises from an ambiguously worded rule or law - From where I stand, this rule is very specifically worded, and under the specified conditions, Ben Richmond is eligible to be signed.

Generally, complaints about loopholes arise when they unfairly favour certain parties. This doesn't favour any one team over another, so I don't see the problem - It's just a loose interpretation of a rule, and not technically a loophole anyway.

Every team has the potential to benefit from this, and they should make hay when the sun shines. If they hadn't realised this was allowed until now, then that's a failing of the recruiting department to properly understand the rules.

I appreciate that you would change the rule if given the chance, but that's a separate issue to suggesting that there is something untoward about the application of the current rule as it stands.

And Number 10 -
I'm not suggesting it is being exploited (in this case or any other), I'm saying it could be.

Whether it's officially a 'loophole' or not is semantics, the rule should do what it's intended to do - a pathway for athletes who aren't playing good level footy.
Frankly I don't think the AFL have really thought through the whole situation.

It's not going to win anyone a flag but it does allow the potential for $ to be more of a deciding factor, or for a club with particularly strong links to some of the good footy schools/juniors system to gain an edge - which the whole recruiting/cap system is designed to stop.

Frankly I worry that a club will find some good kids in one of the top footy schools & have a quiet word. You think Ken Fletcher wouldn't be up for that? Or Sacred Heart in Perth which's provided half of WCE's players ever?

Would mean changing a couple of words in the wording of the rule & wouldn't affect anyone already signed. Not earth shattering stuff, just IMHO sloppy paperwork by the AFL.

If Alex Keath isn't a regular first class cricketer in 3 years time, I hope we sign him as an alternative athlete

That's the sort of kid I'm talking about. There are plenty who don't quite decide what they're going to do until 18 or so.
What if they "appear" to be following another sport, but keep playing school football, then suddenly decide footy's the one for them?

 

[Slattery_20]

Until it happens, I think it's just absolute paranoia on the part of some people (although I do agree with Slattery that private school footy should count).

He wasn't a kid who played footy all the time and happened to play some basketball as well, he was an AIS basketball athlete.

Any kid that wants to succeed at the highest level would give themselves every chance by playing through the proper channels, I'd imagine.

It's possible that if we see a lot of success from this then down the line AFL clubs might have a whisper to them, but we haven't yet and it reeks of paranoia. I think it's good that the AFL is encouraging blokes from other sports to come across.

Paranoia, or just tidying up a loose end?
In this case the devil's in the detail. And really doesn't need to be there at all - they can kill the issue stone dead with a quick revision.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Paranoia, or just tidying up a loose end?
In this case the devil's in the detail. And really doesn't need to be there at all - they can kill the issue stone dead with a quick revision.

I'd say the paranoia angle is suggesting that it WOULD actually be exploited - The chances of convincing a gun young footy player to give it up for three years because a club has SAID that they'll draft him (as a rookie mind you - Not on big cash) is a logical non-starter.

There's virtually no chance it would ever actually be surreptitiously used for underhanded purposes in the manner that you have described, and anything less than that isn't actually worth stopping.

If the ease of mobility across to the AFL convinces talented athletes that could play other sports that they should be playing footy, then the AFL is going to be okay with it.

 

[Slattery_20]

And only paranoia would suggest a flag captain of a club could be lured by a filthy rich businessman with a very large chequebook giving him an un-precedented off-field deal that the AFL would sign off on. Call me a cynic!

 

[Quigley]

With the changes to the rookie list rules there are going to be more of these types of players picked up because the AFL wants the rookie list to be used on these types of players. I would suspect that they have allowed the school football exception so that it is not too harsh.

From next year you are going to have 3 x tier one rookies (normal rooks) and 3 x tier 2 rookie (international, other sport, former NSW academy, 1 Irish). If you want to fill out your rookie list you are going to need to fish in other ponds.

 

[Number 10]

With the changes to the rookie list rules there are going to be more of these types of players picked up because the AFL wants the rookie list to be used on these types of players. I would suspect that they have allowed the school football exception so that it is not too harsh.

From next year you are going to have 3 x tier one rookies (normal rooks) and 3 x tier 2 rookie (international, other sport, former NSW academy, 1 Irish). If you want to fill out your rookie list you are going to need to fish in other ponds.

Surely that just disadvantages the poor clubs even more... Strange move

 

[Quigley]

Surely that just disadvantages the poor clubs even more... Strange move

Yeah I agree. Odd move that hurts clubs who can't afford to send their recruiters everywhere.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

And only paranoia would suggest a flag captain of a club could be lured by a filthy rich businessman with a very large chequebook giving him an un-precedented off-field deal that the AFL would sign off on. Call me a cynic!

The rules DO prohibit Judd's VISY deal - The AFL just inexplicably chose to look the other way and decide that Chris Judd IS performing millions of dollars worth of services to VISY, regardless of all logic and reason.

If the AFL ignores the rules, then it doesn't really matter what the rules are.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Surely that just disadvantages the poor clubs even more... Strange move

Not really - Clubs could use all of those spots on athletes from other sports within Victoria if they chose. It's just a matter of getting better at it from there.

 

[Slattery_20]

The rules DO prohibit Judd's VISY deal - The AFL just inexplicably chose to look the other way and decide that Chris Judd IS performing millions of dollars worth of services to VISY, regardless of all logic and reason.

If the AFL ignores the rules, then it doesn't really matter what the rules are.

I'm pretty sure they changed some detail after they signed off on the Judd deal.

 

[Stifler's mom]

Collingwood and a AFL allowed loophole....No whod of thought... Luke Ball anyone.

Not like you to have a sook Hump17.

Maybe you should get back to work, that is why poor Alan Wilson is struggling with his last 500 million dollars and you are ****ing around on BF.