List Mgmt. 2014 list discussion - drafts, free agents, trades, retirees, delistings and more

[Turbocat]

Balls on the block. Delist HMAC, save the salary cap space , chapman with a 1 yr deal and re-sign some more up and comers to 2 yr deals with the leftover $$.
West and HMAC now gone.
GO CATTERS

Im afraid Pure is correct Daz. Delisting him gives us a spot but not cap room. Its done that way to avoid rorting the cap. If we can pay contracts out without cap , then why not load contracts to be heavy later.

 

[dazbroncos]

If we delisted him we'd have to pay out the last two years of his contract inside the salary cap and there's no way we'd have room to do that.

Ain't gonna happen, even if I think he's a white elephant.

West will be a big call though, as I think he will request a trade so we will need to make a call on whether we trade him (and whether we need to get in more ruck cover if we do).

I thought we had only to guarantee the first year I the contract .
That's why we have smart people like you PO on here.

Could be that gamble on hmac just really burns us. Cash tied up and list spot in the face of real issues. Easy to say now but some you win and some we lose. Would just hate to lose a Kersten type player to the hmac situation. ( I know he just signed but you get the idea. ) I mean it could be chappy that goes as a result of the above points...

Go Catters

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I thought we had only to guarantee the first year I the contract .
That's why we have smart people like you PO on here.

Could be that gamble on hmac just really burns us. Cash tied up and list spot in the face of real issues. Easy to say now but some you win and some we lose. Would just hate to lose a Kersten type player to the hmac situation. ( I know he just signed but you get the idea. ) I mean it could be chappy that goes as a result of the above points...

Go Catters

No, he's guaranteed to get his money either way. We pay the lot.

Otherwise there's no reponsibility on clubs to make good and responsible decisions and they can rort the cap.

The only question is whether the payout is inside or outside the cap (and trust me, there's no way we could afford it inside the cap, they wouldn't have that much room left). Normally it's all inside the cap, I think there is some exemption where in career ending injuries part of the payout can be put outside the cap, but it wouldn't be easy to get.

In any case they won't admit they made a bad call and delist him one year in, he'll get at least next year before this becomes a possibility.

 

[The rabbi]

Yeah West for Pears crazy what was I thinking. We have heaps of Key Defenders ready to go.

I can understand why people are adversed to trading in players as we have a list squeeze atm. It was purely answering the Ess guys question regarding West or Varcoe.

Now I know why there is only like 5 people that are included in this tread. Everyone else is to scared of getting shot down for a mear suggestion of a trade.

Varcoe for Pears is a crazzy Vossy type trade. No way

As the season nears it's end you will see a lot of "Crazy Vossy" type trade scenarios suggested. People seem to be infected by it like it was some rabid flesh eating zombie virus.

My post quoted Turbo. And Turbo did not mention West but Varcoe. So your comment "Yeah West for Pears crazy what was I thinking." is irrelevant to my post as I would consider West in a reasonable trade. And I am aware of our shortage of KPD's coming through but I think that Varcoe is a required player.

 

[Turbocat]

I thought we had only to guarantee the first year I the contract .
That's why we have smart people like you PO on here.

Could be that gamble on hmac just really burns us. Cash tied up and list spot in the face of real issues. Easy to say now but some you win and some we lose. Would just hate to lose a Kersten type player to the hmac situation. ( I know he just signed but you get the idea. ) I mean it could be chappy that goes as a result of the above points...

Go Catters

dazbroncos Reading other post looks like you made the right call on SK, him signing for another year. (How was Disneyland? , 6 Flags supposed to be better?)

Anyway back on track , Yep Hmac might be the gift the keeps on giving. Grundy , Longer , Chappy .. just how many things he may affect. Which is fine if we got some upside. And if we cant even look at an Adams that will be another one.

 

[bulletproof]

One thing is for certain we won't be bringing in any players this year, so we can ignore all the nonsense around trade week. Most we'll be doing is flipping around draft picks.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

One thing is for certain we won't be bringing in any players this year, so we can ignore all the nonsense around trade week. Most we'll be doing is flipping around draft picks.

West would be on decent money.

If he goes, it may free up some cap room, as will the retirements of both Corey and Hunt.

But yeah, I tend to agree we will be having a quiet trade period, more because of the list spots than the money.

 

[Turbocat]

Yeah West for Pears crazy what was I thinking. We have heaps of Key Defenders ready to go.

I can understand why people are adversed to trading in players as we have a list squeeze atm. It was purely answering the Ess guys question regarding West or Varcoe.

Now I know why there is only like 5 people that are included in this tread. Everyone else is to scared of getting shot down for a mear suggestion of a trade.

CA , West for Pears? or was it West or Varcoe for Pears. I said Varcoe for Pears is CV. and I dont see Pears as the answers to our key positions issue @192 he is borderline key position. Its the same size as Mackie.

But 5 people in his thread? This board is all about opinions and all are encouraged to give them. But there will be feed back on those opinions so you have to be prepared to justify your thoughts. Read thru the board Pure , Catempire , Daz , Strangled Cat , SJ whoever , all have to support their opinions.

 

[Cat Addict]

Balls on the block. Delist HMAC, save the salary cap space , chapman with a 1 yr deal and re-sign some more up and comers to 2 yr deals with the leftover $$.
West and HMAC now gone.
GO CATTERS

How does delisting HMac save cap? We signed him on a 3 year deal.

 

[rocker_oz33]

West would be on decent money.

If he goes, it may free up some cap room, as will the retirements of both Corey and Hunt.

But yeah, I tend to agree we will be having a quiet trade period, more because of the list spots than the money.

Heaps of cash tied up in west and Hmac both not even playing.

 

[WA Cat]

I could have sworn that I heard Cam Mooney say on Fox Footy last week that Boris Enright would play in 2014. Moons seemed pretty definite on that.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Enright a rare player even at hes age he still on top of the pops >gun.

 

[Cat Addict]

CA , West for Pears? or was it West or Varcoe for Pears. I said Varcoe for Pears is CV. and I dont see Pears as the answers to our key positions issue @192 he is borderline key position. Its the same size as Mackie.

But 5 people in his thread? This board is all about opinions and all are encouraged to give them. But there will be feed back on those opinions so you have to be prepared to justify your thoughts. Read thru the board Pure , Catempire , Daz , Strangled Cat , SJ whoever , all have to support their opinions.

Sorry I didn't get the Your crazier than Voss man, as yeah the West trade would be ok, but I disagree with trading Varcoe for him. Can you explain why you would trade him.

More than happy to support my opinions, just taken back by being called as crazy as Voss. While I was mainly proposing West for Pears, I did throw Varcoe out there and did mention a trade of picks to even them up. Would want maybe a 2nd round pick upgrade on ours at least, for a trade involving Varcoe.

To my defense I do rate Tayte Pears, and think given the opportunity he would be a great KD even full back. He won a rising star nomination playing full back. Injury's has slowed his progress but looks to be over them now. Matt Scarlett was 192 cm (not rating Pears as good Scarlett) just trying to address the height concerns.

On Varcoe he is a good player and tryed hard Friday night, but his disposal has been a bit off lately. I think Motlop and Christensen have gone past him and I just feel that he hasn't really gelled with the rest of the team. Not sure he is mates with anyone on the list, and seems to be having a bit of a hard time outside of footy, maybe a change would help him.

Trading him really didn't occur to me it was just that initial Ess poster that got me thinking.

Sorry don't post much, i will get the hang of the criticism soon enough.

 

[manboob]

On Varcoe he is a good player and tryed hard Friday night, but his disposal has been a bit off lately. I think Motlop and Christensen have gone past him and I just feel that he hasn't really gelled with the rest of the team. Not sure he is mates with anyone on the list, and seems to be having a bit of a hard time outside of footy, maybe a change would help him.

Varcoe is like a giant medieval catapult or cross-bow. Takes a long time to calibrate and there will inevitably be a lot of misfires and wasted ammunition but when finally on point utter devastation ensues.

 

[The rabbi]

Reckon you'd play Kersto as a deep lead-up forward or a high flanker. Really rate him but don't see him ideally as a key position forward.

He looks more like a flanker to me. I cannot see any problems with playing a med-tall like Kersten on the flank like we did with Menzel and Stevie J.

 

[Cat Addict]

I thought we had only to guarantee the first year I the contract .
That's why we have smart people like you PO on here.

Could be that gamble on hmac just really burns us. Cash tied up and list spot in the face of real issues. Easy to say now but some you win and some we lose. Would just hate to lose a Kersten type player to the hmac situation. ( I know he just signed but you get the idea. ) I mean it could be chappy that goes as a result of the above points...

Go Catters

I agree was a big risk with HMac. I guess seeing what happened with Sandi 2 weeks ago, it was seen as a big hole and maybe a punt worth taking at the time.

 

[supahoops]

It's just silly (and this is not directed at you specifically Rosso) all the repetitive suggestions that Blitz should or will remain on the rookie list.
This would be like if people were going around at the end of 2010 saying Pods should remain on the rookie list after the debut year he had.
If you are regularly in the best 22, and playing finals in the afl squad, you are getting elevated at year's end. End of.
I know we all suggest it because we love our guys and we don't want to delist any so we want to create scenarios in which we can keep one more senior listed player, but it isn't going to happen.

As for Chapman, I don't think friday night changed a lot.
His form pre injury was never in question and the decision won't be about form. He's still playing very well and on form is comfortably in our top dozen players.
The question is his body, and whether he's only going to play 8 games again next year. If they think his body can get through close to a full season, he'll get another year, and if not he won't.
I don't think his form in the finals, much as it is crucial for the chances of winning the flag, will have much bearing on the decision.

What's silly in offering him a three year deal at $250k per year, consisting of a rookie first year of 60k, followed by elevation to the senior list at $330k and $360k? This could always be renegotiated/extended if needed. If it ensures Chappy stays an extra year or two all it means is we have an 18-19 year old 3rd round draft pick instead of a twenty year old rookie running around in three years.

If not Chappy it could be Mccarthy or Cowan we lose.

The slight imbalance in our player payments will be easily offset by departures.

Given our list squeeze it would seem silly not to do it.

 

[Turbocat]

I would consider a trade of West or Varcoe for Pears.

Varcoe for Pears is a crazzy Vossy type trade. No way

Sorry I didn't get the Your crazier than Voss man, as yeah the West trade would be ok, but I disagree with trading Varcoe for him. Can you explain why you would trade him.

More than happy to support my opinions, just taken back by being called as crazy as Voss. While I was mainly proposing West for Pears, I did throw Varcoe out there and did mention a trade of picks to even them up. Would want maybe a 2nd round pick upgrade on ours at least, for a trade involving Varcoe. ........

Let me be crystal clear . Trading Varcoe for Pear is a "CrazzyVossy" type trade and I would not do it. But while I or anyone else may say thats good bad poor or crazy trade. Thats doesn't mean you personally are crazy.

To my defense I do rate Tayte Pears, and think given the opportunity he would be a great KD even full back. He won a rising star nomination playing full back. Injury's has slowed his progress but looks to be over them now. Matt Scarlett was 192 cm (not rating Pears as good Scarlett) just trying to address the height concerns.

On Varcoe he is a good player and tryed hard Friday night, but his disposal has been a bit off lately. I think Motlop and Christensen have gone past him and I just feel that he hasn't really gelled with the rest of the team. Not sure he is mates with anyone on the list, and seems to be having a bit of a hard time outside of footy, maybe a change would help him.

Trading him really didn't occur to me it was just that initial Ess poster that got me thinking.

Sorry don't post much, i will get the hang of the criticism soon enough.

See the Pears rational is good. More of it please. Again I would not trade Varcoe for him but Pears would be reasonable. Bur more of a Rivers than a real CPB I think.

 

[Reg Hickey]

As the season nears it's end you will see a lot of "Crazy Vossy" type trade scenarios suggested. People seem to be infected by it like it was some rabid flesh eating zombie virus.

Too true. Good for a bit of entertaining banter, but 98% of them just shouldn't (and thankfully won't) happen. We all know that the club prefers to back our existing players in rather than offload them for some overpriced battler from another club, and you'd have to say its worked pretty well over the past decade or so. If some of you guys had had your way in previous years, we wouldn't have Hawkins, D Simpson, Varcoe, Lonergan, Mackie, Stevie J, Stokes, Kelly or Motlop on the list right now ... hmmm ...

I think West & Brown will probably ask to be traded, and we'll try our best to move them on in return for draft picks. Unless someone else also wants out, aside from that I wouldn't see us getting very heavily involved in trade month or whatever it is called now.

Surely Josh Hunt is done, and I would also retire Joel Corey even though I strongly suspect he won't want to finish up yet. Absolute legend of the club, but now perilously close to "played on too long" territory. I reckon Chappy is worth another year though, and Enright is a long way from finished.

Probably means we would still need to get rid of another one to allow for rookie upgrades. Tough decision.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Neil blame said at the VFL yesterday 2 retirements who?> corey,chappy,Jhunt ,lonners?? with jimmy enright at least another year to run.

 

[cats_09]

Neil blame said at the VFL yesterday 2 retirements who?> corey,chappy,Jhunt ,lonners?? with jimmy enright at least another year to run.

Does Jimmy have 2 years left on his contract? I thought the last contract he signed was a 4yr deal which would have been signed back in 2011 around the time that GWS were speculated to be interested in him - but I see Jimmy retiring at the end of his current contract.

 

[CharacterFirst]

If we convince HMac to retire, do we get out of having to pay him in the cap?

 

[strauchnyy]

Here is what I would do:

Retire:

J. Hunt
J. Corey
(1 yr contracts to enright and chappy. Both still have it and we can't have too many retire at once).

Delist/trade if possible

Cowan
McCarthy
Walker (may get shot down for this but Jess alba knocking on my door is more likely than walker becoming half decent. He is another chambers/McCarthy/playfair).

Upgrade:
Burbury on 1 yr deal to prove his worth.
(Blitz remain on rookie)

Trade:

One of west or brown (preferably west and our second for a low 20s pick)
Fwiw I still think brown can make it as a 3rd tall back.

Draft:

The above gives us 4 selections and assuming we successfully trade west for an upgraded second round..
(Best case scenario)

First round (#15) - Lennon
Early second (#20) - freeman/dunstan
3rd round (#48ish) - fort
4th round (#60ish) - mature age ruck from some snr league ala Mumford type

Development:

- I would like to see blicavs developed into a key defender in the gangly dustin fletcher mould.

- horlin-smith to be developed into that big boddied run with/tagger. He did the job on josh Kennedy and he has very similar attributes to ling. he is contested and hard to move out of the way in contests. And importantly, it gives HS a defined midfield role in the 22. I doubt t. Hunt can fulfil this role.

Taking in the above, our team in 2016 could look something like this:

FB: Fort. blicavs. Eardley
HB: Guthrie. Taylor. Thurlow
C: Motlop. Selwood. Duncan.
HF: Lennon. Vardy. Murdoch
FF: Menzel. Hawkins. Kersten
Fol: Simpson. Caddy. horlin-smith
Int: Christensen. Smedts. Varcoe. Freeman

There is a lot of team balance in that!

 

[vinum coupe]

I thought Kersten would be the answer the Pods question. M. Brown the same for Lonergan

You've got more of a clue on our list that 90% of the people in this thread

 

[vinum coupe]

We've got a list clogger BTW.
Hartman.