Don't know if you're taking the pss or not mate but I was talking about Nick Riewoldt. AA key forwards should have been Roughy at FF, Nick at CHF and Cloke either in the pocket or on the bench.
2013 All Australian Team Announcement
- Thread starter KENT2008
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Kenno27
Club Legend
- Aug 8, 2013
- 1,468
- 1,391
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Grundy 2 Aish
- Banned
- #677
Why did Riewoldt deserve a place ahead of Cloke?
Cloke took 27 more marks i50 than any other player, the most contested marks by an absolute street, missed the Coleman by 2 goals despite playing 1 less game than Roughead and had the highest goal average of any player in the AFL.
He was the best performed forward in 2013
Cloke took 27 more marks i50 than any other player, the most contested marks by an absolute street, missed the Coleman by 2 goals despite playing 1 less game than Roughead and had the highest goal average of any player in the AFL.
He was the best performed forward in 2013
Cloke played closer to goal than at any time previous. In the end it came down to Riewoldt v Cameron; Cameron won, so Cloke got pushed up the ground. I'd probably have named Roughead at CHF, Cloke FF, Riewoldt in a pocket/bench and Cameron, bench/out.
- Jul 20, 2010
- 8,179
- 10,822
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Banned
- #679
Out: Mackie, Dangerfield, Watson.
In: Fyfe, L. Thomas, N. Riewoldt
In: Fyfe, L. Thomas, N. Riewoldt
But you take it to feel good not to be better on field.
- Nov 27, 2000
- 15,887
- 31,958
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- Triple M commentary team
I think McKenzie is a good player but turn it up...
You're overrating Thompson and underrating Mackenzie, he was easily one of the best performed key defenders this year and is a better true defender than Thompson. Thompson is a much better rebounder though.
FastLane
Club Legend
Josh Gibson has got to be the most underrated backman going around.
He would be my first pick in AA backline for the past 3 years.
Mackie seems to have been rewarded for consistency over the years-porbably deserved it more in previous seasons.
This year gibson, hibberd and malceski had better season imo.
Watson should not have been put in- but it's the boys club looking after their own.
Fyfe ridiculously unlucky and hannebry ridiculously lucky- they just love a good private school boy!
Glad to sees Scott Thompson get recognition- seriously underrated player- greta balance, decision making and mongrel to boot.
Overall, a pretty good team- personally would've had McVeigh captain- reward for putting up with his know brother all these years!
He would be my first pick in AA backline for the past 3 years.
Mackie seems to have been rewarded for consistency over the years-porbably deserved it more in previous seasons.
This year gibson, hibberd and malceski had better season imo.
Watson should not have been put in- but it's the boys club looking after their own.
Fyfe ridiculously unlucky and hannebry ridiculously lucky- they just love a good private school boy!
Glad to sees Scott Thompson get recognition- seriously underrated player- greta balance, decision making and mongrel to boot.
Overall, a pretty good team- personally would've had McVeigh captain- reward for putting up with his know brother all these years!
Plugger35
The umpires are always right!
- Sep 27, 2008
- 137,110
- 158,285
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Chelsea, Black Caps, Subiaco
Riewoldt plays further up the ground than Cloke so won't take as many inside 50 marks or kick as many goals, Riewoldt took the most overall marks and had more disposals than Cloke. You're basically comparing a CHF with a full forward so you can't compare them by stats alone.
Yeah Cloke plays more as a full forward than CHF so probably should've been selected there or in the pocket along with Roughead. Riewoldt is the only true CHF so should've been selected there with Cameron on the bench. All four could've been selected with one less midfielder.
.
- Apr 1, 2013
- 2,167
- 4,275
- AFL Club
- West Coast
The big mistake was Cameron, was a romantic decision but also one made by people who don't understand how GWS play. Cameron was the only target all year but teams don't drop players back against them as its not worth expending the energy in big wins, so Cameron gets a lot of space and easy goals relative to most forwards, there were several games this year where he ended up with 3 or 4 that were just joe the gooses that inflated his stats, this was a misguided decision.
I've refrained from commenting on some of the dumb things that have been said in this thread about Jezza, but this one I'll not let pass. He was often the only target up forward, that part is correct. That also meant he was double and tripled teamed pretty much every game. No such thing as an easy goal under those circumstances. He managed to get out the back more often because he works his arse off up and back.
Your claim that they don't drop players back is just outright dumb.
- Sep 9, 2003
- 27,578
- 28,760
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- FGR
What about them? Riewoldt is always going to get more touches than Cloke simply because of their contrasting styles of play.
- Banned
- #689
And the fact Riewoldt plays CHF and Cloke doesnt.
I know I'm late. I haven't read this thread at all. But would I be correct in guessing the last 10 pages have been disbelief regarding the mackie inclusion? Where is Nat Fyfe?? Or Nick Riewoldt?? I'm not sure if Danger deserved a spot this year either.
- Apr 1, 2013
- 2,167
- 4,275
- AFL Club
- West Coast
I think your overrating how often he was double-teamed due to bias, many games he'd kick bags when teams would dominate you and you would occasionally be able to counter attack and JC would run into open goals. Granted he would work his butt off, but his output was inflated and his season wasn't as good as Kennedy and especially Riewoldt, let alone Roughead.
Plugger35
The umpires are always right!
- Sep 27, 2008
- 137,110
- 158,285
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Chelsea, Black Caps, Subiaco
Yet people are trying to argue that Cloke is more deserving of being selected because he takes more marks inside 50 and kicks more goals than Riewoldt despite Cloke playing at full forward while Riewoldt is a roaming CHF that plays further up the ground.
If you were going to pick a player to play a true CHF role I'm sure most people would pick Riewoldt ahead of Cloke.
- Sep 9, 2003
- 27,578
- 28,760
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- FGR
Kenno27
Club Legend
- Aug 8, 2013
- 1,468
- 1,391
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Grundy 2 Aish
- Banned
- #695
Not sure you can call Riewoldt a better 'true' runner then Cloke.
Riewoldt is 96 kg. Cloke is 108 kg.
Put 12 kg's on Riewoldt and ask if he covers the ground as well? Many defenders have said Cloke is the hardest to beat because he can burn you off in an aerobic sense and he can take you close to goal and beat you with strength.
Riewoldt just doesn't have this arsenal. That is no disrespect to Riewoldt, Cloke is the second best KPF in it, he is at another level to him.
Riewoldt is 96 kg. Cloke is 108 kg.
Put 12 kg's on Riewoldt and ask if he covers the ground as well? Many defenders have said Cloke is the hardest to beat because he can burn you off in an aerobic sense and he can take you close to goal and beat you with strength.
Riewoldt just doesn't have this arsenal. That is no disrespect to Riewoldt, Cloke is the second best KPF in it, he is at another level to him.
About half of Cloke's kicks were shots at goal, which is a greater proportion than players considered pure FF's like J.Riewoldt and Schulz.
- Banned
- #697
you rippa
Debutant
- Sep 17, 2013
- 75
- 64
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Banned
- #698
not sure why majority of people and the media are crying over Fyfe missing out. Very, very good player and on the rise to better things but he's quite honestly a poor user of the footy and has been since the start of his career, like Trent Cotchin, exceptional clearance gatherer but not as effective offensively as some of the other mids picked this year.
Pendlebury, Selwood, Dangerfield, Swan, Ablett, Watson, Boak, they all kicked a goal per game but also contributed by assisting many as well so who you going to take out for his spot?
Pendlebury, Selwood, Dangerfield, Swan, Ablett, Watson, Boak, they all kicked a goal per game but also contributed by assisting many as well so who you going to take out for his spot?
Plugger35
The umpires are always right!
- Sep 27, 2008
- 137,110
- 158,285
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Chelsea, Black Caps, Subiaco
Riewoldt has one of the biggest aerobic tanks of any key forward to ever play the game, Cloke and most other key forwards wouldn't go close to running the same distance as him in a game.
If you look at stats, Hodge had a bad year. 55th in average championdata points per game.
If you look at football matches and see who has an effect on winning games, then Hodge had a very good year.
Two examples:
Round 12 - 15 posessions 1 goal, 2 tackle, 91 super coach points
Average game statistically but voted best on ground by Ch 7, equal best on ground by The Age, and also in the coaches votes.
Round 22 - 21 posessions (17 uncontested) 0 goals, 3 tackles, 87 super coach points
Average game statistically but voted best on ground by BOTH coaches.
Those that watch games have adjudged him to have a very good season. 9th in the Age Footballer of the year award, 14th in the Herald Sun Player of the Year, 12th in the AFL coaches association award. 8th in the Brownlow. McVeigh was the only defender above him in any of the awards.
Its a pity that the AA selectors are advised by championdata because for players like luke hodge, their influence on the game is not quantified by current statistics.
Coaches Votes
Hodge 62 (10 games polled)
Mackie 14 (3 games polled)
