Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[mottrain]

I'm starting to think Max has a point. Forget the fact that out descendants arrived by boats uninvited and killed everyone that was here already, that's different. We should accept no boat arrivals from Asia/Africa and just let them all die in their homeland. If they're of European decent, we're happy to let them fly here and stay as long as they like because, well, they paid someone to rort the Visa system instead of paying someone for a boat trip and there's a massive difference between the two. We're not racists and we really do want to help these people, we just don't like people smuggling, at least that's the excuse we'll put up as a smoke screen to hide our real reasoning.

<end sarcasm>

Why don't we contribute to deaths at sea like under the terrible policyt of the previous govt????

 

[Maggie5]

You don't want to play the blame game because you damn well know who's fault this is.

You supported measure that encouraged people smugglers, you supported measure that encouraged boat arrivals, you supported measures that encouraged the burning of documents.

Now you cry about people in detention, people dying at sea and the slowness of processing.

Do you see the connection? Or do you pretend that if you don't acknowledge it then there is no blood on your hands?

Predictable rant. So glad you supported your rant with references to posts that I have made. oh, wait......

 

[Power Raid]

I'm starting to think Max has a point. Forget the fact that out descendants arrived by boats uninvited and killed everyone that was here already, that's different. We should accept no boat arrivals from Asia/Africa and just let them all die in their homeland. If they're of European decent, we're happy to let them fly here and stay as long as they like because, well, they paid someone to rort the Visa system instead of paying someone for a boat trip and there's a massive difference between the two. We're not racists and we really do want to help these people, we just don't like people smuggling, at least that's the excuse we'll put up as a smoke screen to hide our real reasoning.

<end sarcasm>

how about we just have a sustainable immigration policy that is controlled by the government, not people smugglers, and considers there is appropriate resources available such as health, education, housing etc to ensure our new immigrants have the best chance of success in their new homeland?

but surely sustainable and managed doesn't mean a push driven system as we simply can't help 45m refugees.

 

[Todman]

I'm starting to think Max has a point. Forget the fact that out descendants arrived by boats uninvited and killed everyone that was here already, that's different. We should accept no boat arrivals from Asia/Africa and just let them all die in their homeland. If they're of European decent, we're happy to let them fly here and stay as long as they like because, well, they paid someone to rort the Visa system instead of paying someone for a boat trip and there's a massive difference between the two. We're not racists and we really do want to help these people, we just don't like people smuggling, at least that's the excuse we'll put up as a smoke screen to hide our real reasoning.

<end sarcasm>

Jiska your descendants might have arrived by boats but mine walked here.

 

[Todman]

Maggie, Max Zero nailed you.

 

[Maggie5]

Maggie, Max Zero nailed you.

Is it Easter? This is only a forum, nothing huge at 'stake'. Point scoring, no big deal, my ego can take it.

 

[Max zero]

I constantly hear that that "it's not about the past but the future." But if don't acknowledge the failures of the past, maybe even seek to repeat them then surely someone needs to say something?

The policies advocated so far are just like the ones Rudd implemented. No one can tell me how these new policies differ from Rudds and why they would produce a different outcome.

In few years time are we going to end up in the exact same situation again?

What's more important fixing the issue long term or a short term salving of concience?

 

[Maggie5]

I constantly hear that that "it's not about the past but the future." But if don't acknowledge the failures of the past, maybe even seek to repeat them then surely someone needs to say something?

The policies advocated so far are just like the ones Rudd implemented. No one can tell me how these new policies differ from Rudds and why they would produce a different outcome.

In few years time are we going to end up in the exact same situation again?

What's more important fixing the issue long term or a short term salving of concience?

Def. Agree Rudd policies were very bad.
Think I should give this thread a spell as post too emotionally.

 

[Max zero]

Def. Agree Rudd policies were very bad.
Think I should give this thread a spell as post too emotionally.

It's an emotional issue.

And at times I am part of the problem instead of the solution.

It just frustrates me when people point towards measures that caused the situation in the first place.

The current methods are not perfect and probably do more suffering in he short term. But they do that in order to find a way out.

All other ideas I have seen so far reduce the short term effects but lead nowhere if not make the issue worse.

Yes boat arrivals only make up a small percentage of overall arrivals. But if not handled correctly could rapidly expand (as shown in earlier years) to become a major issue. If you were a desperate family in a refugee camp and someone offered you somewhere to live, food, safety, education and training in a 1st world country all for free would you take up the offer? Of the 44 million refugees how many do you think would also? Now ask yourself how many do you think we could handle? See the problem?

We can't save them all.

 

[Maggie5]

It's an emotional issue.

And at times I am part of the problem instead of the solution.

It just frustrates me when people point towards measures that caused the situation in the first place.

The current methods are not perfect and probably do more suffering in he short term. But they do that in order to find a way out.

All other ideas I have seen so far reduce the short term effects but lead nowhere if not make the issue worse.

Yes boat arrivals only make up a small percentage of overall arrivals. But if not handled correctly could rapidly expand (as shown in earlier years) to become a major issue. If you were a desperate family in a refugee camp and someone offered you somewhere to live, food, safety, education and training in a 1st world country all for free would you take up the offer? Of the 44 million refugees how many do you think would also? Now ask yourself how many do you think we could handle? See the problem?

We can't save them all.

Okay, truce.

 

[Todman]

But what about the children?

 

[mottrain]

Predictable rant. So glad you supported your rant with references to posts that I have made. oh, wait......

And Predictable reply. When are you going to admit Labor and Greens caused most of the problems.

 

[Maggie5]

And Predictable reply. When are you going to admit Labor and Greens caused most of the problems.

Do you have any original thoughts of your own?

 

[mottrain]

Do you have any original thoughts of your own?

Ironic do you hold any?

 

[Jiska]

Moving on..

 

[Maggie5]

But what about the children?

You live with your conscience and I will live with mine. Rather not mix it with the likes of you, this is not a game of tit for tat.
Stick to reporting how many boats have arrived.

 

[Stumpy Pete]

Hear hear!

"The voiceless in this debate are the ones that are at the bottom of the ocean and who are in camps all around the world which I am now very pleased are getting places under our (immigration) programme"

Great comment from Morrison. His opening statement demonstrates the difference in maturity and self reflection between those who support deterrence methods and those who oppose them.

Those who support deterrence methods at least have the honesty and courage to openly admit that there is a humanitarian cost to their policies, but consider that the ends justify the means.

Many of those who oppose deterrence methods are cowards. They ignore the humanitarian cost of their policies by suggesting that there is no such thing as a pull factor. These cowards then have the gall to use their conveniently guilt free self determined moral superiority to pour buckets of crap over those who have differing views.

Some of the vile descriptions directed towards Morrison on sites like the Guardian and The Drum are shameful.

Regards

S. Pete

 

[Todman]

You live with your conscience and I will live with mine. Rather not mix it with the likes of you, this is not a game of tit for tat.
Stick to reporting how many boats have arrived.

None this week

 

[Jakko]

The purely emotive, substance lacking Human Rights inquiry from a couple of days ago merely underscores this whole issue.

It all boiled down to how the situation is actually improving, rediculous claims being presented by Mrs Triggs (its a short runway on Christmas island, that's surely a human rights concern for refugees who may need to fly out for expert medical help now and then....). Not to mention the babbling attempts to justify labelling immigration detention as prisons (she has been a lawyer for X years, didn't you know......?).

All the while, wishing nobody ever asked why no inquiry of this nature took place when the detention situation was worse under the previous government, and more people were drowning.

 

[Jiska]

These cowards then have the gall to use their conveniently guilt free self determined moral superiority to pour buckets of crap over those who have differing views.

How hypocritical, given the rest of your post was pouring buckets of crap over those with different view to yourself and Mr. Morrison.

 

[mottrain]

How hypocritical, given the rest of your post was pouring buckets of crap over those with different view to yourself and Mr. Morrison.

He's correct hypocritical or not!!!

 

[Jiska]

He's correct hypocritical or not!!!

Whether he's correct or not is a matter of opinion. He agrees with your viewpoint, that's for sure.

 

[mottrain]

No G Triggs total refusal to answer such questions and also her huge unwillingness says this is the case much like the same sort of case can be made about Abbott and his supposed union witch hunt. The difference is there is far more pinning both partiues to the boats issue than the union issue. Hence why we should have the former ministers making appearances. Triggs totally got rolled by the immi head and also others when this issue of Labor and her lovely lies about armed people and likening them to a prison were bought up.

 

[Todman]

Make wild claim, made to look foolish then try to change the subject.

 

[Max zero]

Make wild claim, made to look foolish then try to change the subject.

Its good to see the numbers in offshore detention falling quickly as well.

It won't be long before the centre becomes empty enough to close (again).

No one in offshore detention and no one dying on boats. Isn't that what everyone wants?