Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

[Cataholic]

Trolling the clubs slogan? Am I taking it completely out of context? My sig simply makes the point if you're being smashed in Prelims when finishing second on the ladder for the season are you really living up to that slogan?? Anyway I'd expect you to deliberately misinterpret that for a cheap insult you could throw my way, it seems to be your style on here.

To be fair, the slogan says 'Greatness' is the club's 'Ambition'......

Ambition is another word for 'Aspiration, intention, goal'

Ambition doesn't guarantee success, and can be thwarted by anything from a lack of talent to pure bad luck.

The lack of success doesn't necessarily disprove the slogan. A lack of intensity, will, drive and determination would though.

Do you believe the players lack the will to win?

 

[dazbroncos]

Trolling the clubs slogan? Am I taking it completely out of context? My sig simply makes the point if you're being smashed in Prelims when finishing second on the ladder for the season are you really living up to that slogan?? Anyway I'd expect you to deliberately misinterpret that for a cheap insult you could throw my way, it seems to be your style on here.

Given that opposition supporters that come onto the GFC page are warned for such words, there is little to misinterpret. You either support the club or you dont.

You know, black or white - absolutes.. like you like.

Anything but a flag is a failure type stuff.

This thread is full of it.

Go Catters

 

[BlightysCats]

Anything but a flag is a failure type stuff.

I've never said that. As in supporting the club, absolutes etc. I just want us to live up to our club slogan for two reasons:
1. I'm selfish and want to see us succeed.
2. If we don't succeed with that club slogan we leave ourselves open to the type of derision from opposition supporters we're increasingly having to cop because it paints a picture that we're completely deluded as a club.

 

[dazbroncos]

I've never said that. As in supporting the club, absolutes etc. I just want us to live up to our club slogan for two reasons:
1. I'm selfish and want to see us succeed.
2. If we don't succeed with that club slogan we leave ourselves open to the type of derision from opposition supporters we're increasingly having to cop because it paints a picture that we're completely deluded as a club.

Don't need opposition supporters.

We got you

Carry on.

Go Catters

 

[BlightysCats]

Don't need opposition supporters.

We got you

Carry on.

Go Catters

Well why don't you just ban me then? If you really think that^?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

There will be a bit of that... people like to stretch their legs after 3 weeks in" ze cooler"

GO Catters

Funnily enough my disallowed av was an ode to that scene. Captain Hilts in ze cooler.

 

[Vdubs]

I think you are not respecting jimmy at all he would of captained geelong if no harley and ling were involved. And he has been a leader at that club for years its like calling matthew scarlett or boris enrights experience useless compared to selwood in terms of leadership.
Who do you think helped mentor selwood on the way up.

Jimmy bartel
3x flags
Norm smith medal
Brownlow medalist
All australian
He has just been past his prime so we forget how dominant a force he was and how he was one of very best finals performers consistantly. Selwood is in his prime right now and deserves to lead the team into the future but never question bartels leadership around a grelong group

As I said, IN COMPARISON to Selwood. No disrespect to Bartel at all, who ALL Cats fans respect and admire, me included. JB has always been a great inspirational leader on field, and off-field. I do concede I probably should not have said "way more leadership" than Bartel
BUT. Bartel was there when Selwood was made captain, and was at his peak, having just won a NS, and was young enough (stayed on 5 years) to be made captain, or even VC, but no.
That is my point. Anyway, the real point was that we STILL have Selwood who is widely recognised as an excellent leader and captain.

 

[lionbear]

Trolling the clubs slogan? Am I taking it completely out of context? My sig simply makes the point if you're being smashed in Prelims when finishing second on the ladder for the season are you really living up to that slogan?? Anyway I'd expect you to deliberately misinterpret that for a cheap insult you could throw my way, it seems to be your style on here.

Going on that theory then Western Bulldogs are the only club allowed to have anything in there slogan aiming for glory.

 

[BlightysCats]

Going on that theory then Western Bulldogs are the only club allowed to have anything in there slogan aiming for glory.

No, again it seems I'll have to explain what I plainly wrote for simpletons like yourself - I explained that we'd finished second and were humiliated in the Prelim, now that means we finished the finals in a lower place on the ladder than we entered them which was a huge disappointment and one Cook and the club have acknowledged as a huge disappointment. So we had a disappointing finals series which clearly doesn't match up to our slogan. If we had've made the GF then I think we could rightly say we showed some level of 'greatness' like Sydney did. Any team that exits the finals in a superior position to what they entered them has done really well. I can see how you would've been confused by that however considering Geelong hasn't finished a finals series higher than when it entered them for 5 years now.

 

[dazbroncos]

No, again it seems I'll have to explain what I plainly wrote for simpletons like yourself - I explained that we'd finished second and were humiliated in the Prelim, now that means we finished the finals in a lower place on the ladder than we entered them which was a huge disappointment and one Cook and the club have acknowledged as a huge disappointment. So we had a disappointing finals series which clearly doesn't match up to our slogan. If we had've made the GF then I think we could rightly say we showed some level of 'greatness' like Sydney did. Any team that exits the finals in a superior position to what they entered them has done really well. I can see how you would've been confused by that however considering Geelong hasn't finished a finals series higher than when it entered them for 5 years now.

Clearly if multiple people question your basis of POV - then perhaps its not so "simple' as you call it.

And cut the condescending elitist bullshit - you are no better than anyone else on here. People that dont swallow your line of thinking are not simpletons. Stick to the issue.

Go Catters

 

[Ray Donovan]

No, again it seems I'll have to explain what I plainly wrote for simpletons like yourself - I explained that we'd finished second and were humiliated in the Prelim, now that means we finished the finals in a lower place on the ladder than we entered them which was a huge disappointment and one Cook and the club have acknowledged as a huge disappointment. So we had a disappointing finals series which clearly doesn't match up to our slogan. If we had've made the GF then I think we could rightly say we showed some level of 'greatness' like Sydney did. Any team that exits the finals in a superior position to what they entered them has done really well. I can see how you would've been confused by that however considering Geelong hasn't finished a finals series higher than when it entered them for 5 years now.

So does that mean we broke even because sydney were minor premiers lol they finished first geelong lost to them.

All seriousness we lost to a better balanced side / list with a midfield we could not match. Minor premiers for a reason.

A forward structure with multiple targets
Franklin, Tippett very impressed with Papley, Rohan and kieren jacks performance with parker and kennedy resting forward.

longmire is a very smart and competitive coach who crafts sides for finals football. Not many days when sydney lose contested possesion, tackles, Clearances and with some individual stars always makes it harder.

. Parker, Hanneberry, Kennedy, Mitchell, Jack Heeney and lloyd were too good as a group and weight of numbers told the story. They're ability to retain the football was frustrating and picked apart our half zone defence (lol) and tore us apart with speed when we pushed too far up the ground.

It mirrored the loss at skilled stadium earlier in the year sydneys ability to control the football through clean movement. Which was the most dissapointing part for me of the loss we could not implement a plan B that worked. I'm sure they tried plenty of options but if the balls not in your hands 65% of time itsnvery difficult.

My question is they (sydney) are this is open for debate the 3rd best midfield in the comp in my opinion i am sure lots will disagree. Sydney got over powered by GWS and the western bulldogs best GWS away in a prelim and the swans in the grandfinal so i have them at no.1.

Where does that leave us remember we played brisbane and essendon 2 times each this season. I cannot see a drastic improvement with our midfield group unless a cockatoo explodes.

S.Selwood, Guthrie, Duncan, Blicavs and caddy is gone i honestly think with an ageing backline Lonergan, taylor, Mackie we are looking in the dreaded 6-10 range next year.

 

[Ray Donovan]

This ^ is rubbish, none of the so called 'pessimists' you refer to are unhappy with Scott because they/I think we should be winning the flag every year rather it's because our current playing style under Scott repetitively fails in finals, and we completely lack a clear plan to actually seriously challenge for a flag in the next few years. Scott has had 5 years to rebuild for a serious shot at a flag with his own team, name me one A grade player he's developed in that time?? What plan to rebuild has he had during that period?? We haven't traded out players for early picks to get good kids in, but we also haven't traded out to get good free agents in apart from our 2015 post season?? All we've done is get one big name recruit in to our midfield which glosses over the incredible mediocrity and lack of development of our second tier players over the last 5 years.

At the end of 2011 The Western Bulldogs made a bold decision to stop accepting mediocrity and go down the path of trading away elite players for good draft picks and building a young skillful team over time like we did back in 2000. If I had a choice of watching Geelong go down that same path since 2011 knowing there was a clear plan to rebuild for a shot at a flag I would've much preferred to watch us do that and miss finals over a few of those years rather than watch us simply hang around in finals like a bad smell never really being a chance to win a flag like we have done for half a decade now. Had we followed the Bullies path we'd be on the brink of another era of really being able to consistently challenge for the flag, as it stands right now though we're no chance whatsoever of a flag in the foreseeable future.

Well said the western bulldogs mixed draft picks with experienced veterans and hit big in the draft and father sons. Well done brendan mcartney and the number 1 problem you don't have is a buldging salary cap with guys commanding 350k plus in multi year deals clogging your list.

Then our young talent starts leaving Kersten and Vardy walked for nothing caddy plays at half forward wants more midfield time.

we bring in mitch clark, Rhys Stanley, Zac Smith, aaron black and lachie henderson, Zach thuoy thats probably 3 mill out of our 10 mil cap and not one of them is an A grader. Maybe henderson could be one day at a stretch.

Draft picks are not a perfect science you miss more than you hit let stephen wells dictate that with free agency more data you know what your going to get and we are spot filling our list and covering cracks.

Instead of trying to build a list that can contend for a sustained period its not all about winning flags that is a pinnacle of a good system from the CEO all the way down to coaches and players list managers making good decisions.

What we are doing is being competive right now with no respect to where we actually are in the scale GWS, Dogs, Sydney are getting better we are topping off a list again instead of being realistic we had a great season we went all out to steal one more flag for selwood and co. It failed lets go back to the process of regenerating the list how every other club does it through the draft. Moving players on for picks.

Outs
Caddy, Bartel, Enright, Kersten, Vardy
Future first round
Recieve second rounder swap carlton

Ins
Zach Thuoy
Aaron Black
Pick 24 ( caddy )
And our second round late picks

Sorry thats not getting it done we tried to steal one pulled up short thats fine don't destroy the future of the club.

Always try and leave a club in a better position than you found it!

 

[Ray Donovan]

As I said, IN COMPARISON to Selwood. No disrespect to Bartel at all, who ALL Cats fans respect and admire, me included. JB has always been a great inspirational leader on field, and off-field. I do concede I probably should not have said "way more leadership" than Bartel
BUT. Bartel was there when Selwood was made captain, and was at his peak, having just won a NS, and was young enough (stayed on 5 years) to be made captain, or even VC, but no.
That is my point. Anyway, the real point was that we STILL have Selwood who is widely recognised as an excellent leader and captain.

Wow your research is poor

2010 Ling captain
No vice captain leadership group
Bartel, James Kelly, Harry Taylor, Joel Corey,
Corey Enright, Ablett ,Selwood

2011 Ling captain
Selwood appointed vice captain
Bartel, kelly, taylor, corey leadership group

Premiership oldest list for 67 years at time
4th oldest list to win a premiership
6x retirements premiership players. So take that into account when selecting next captain with bartel at 28-29

2012
Selwood captain (23)
Bartel (29) Vice Captain Named!
Enright, Taylor, Kelly, joel corey remain leadership group
Steve johnson added

Bartel steps down from geelong vice captaincy march 2014.

So from 2008 - 2014 jimmy bartel was in the leadership group of a side that played in 4 grand finals 2 flags in that tine. And took the vice captaincy in 2012 selwood was groomed for the role at 23 but i think you clearly undervalue the role he has played in our success the info is there. Ling and harley were great captains and i think if thonpson stayed bartel would of been captain for 1 or 2 years then handed it to selwood but they were in a regeneration period and it was the obvious and good choice for the scenario they had

 

[Vdubs]

Wow your research is poor

2010 Ling captain
No vice captain leadership group
Bartel, James Kelly, Harry Taylor, Joel Corey,
Corey Enright, Ablett ,Selwood

2011 Ling captain
Selwood appointed vice captain
Bartel, kelly, taylor, corey leadership group

Premiership oldest list for 67 years at time
4th oldest list to win a premiership
6x retirements premiership players. So take that into account when selecting next captain with bartel at 28-29

2012
Selwood captain (23)
Bartel (29) Vice Captain Named!
Enright, Taylor, Kelly, joel corey remain leadership group
Steve johnson added

Bartel steps down from geelong vice captaincy march 2014.

So from 2008 - 2014 jimmy bartel was in the leadership group of a side that played in 4 grand finals 2 flags in that tine. And took the vice captaincy in 2012 selwood was groomed for the role at 23 but i think you clearly undervalue the role he has played in our success the info is there. Ling and harley were great captains and i think if thonpson stayed bartel would of been captain for 1 or 2 years then handed it to selwood but they were in a regeneration period and it was the obvious and good choice for the scenario they had

Thank you. I did need the reminder about Bartel's contributions. I have been admonished.
I should have looked into this a lot better. I do recall the period where Ling retired and I for one was hoping Bartel would get the job as captain, and my outsider was Mackie- not even named in the leadership group 2012! All in threads here on BF iirc.
Again, you are correct in your earlier post stating that I downplayed Bartel's leadership in deference to Selwood's.
My only point in these posts is to suggest we still have Selwood, ably assisted by Taylor, Hawkins, Dangerfield, maybe Guthrie, Blic.
Many hoped Caddy would take the next step.
Maybe Duncan.
Actually, it is fairly slim pickings right now- we will have to hope SS, Hendo, Smith, Stanley all stand up in this area.
We have lost Kelly, Bartel, Corey, Enright, Scarlet, Ling, SJ, Chappy ,Harley , GAJ, Mooney, Milburn- significant leadership in that group.

 

[BlightysCats]

Clearly if multiple people question your basis of POV - then perhaps its not so "simple' as you call it.

And cut the condescending elitist bullshit - you are no better than anyone else on here. People that dont swallow your line of thinking are not simpletons. Stick to the issue.

Go Catters

I Don't think I am better than anyone else on here but when someone doesn't read what I actually wrote and responds with absolute nonsense to condescend me then I'll respond in kind.
Maybe you should just concentrate on being the best mod you can be.

 

[BlightysCats]

Yeah you're right re: Sydney, got caught up with the fact they lost their first final but recovered to make the GF.[emoji106]

 

[lionbear]

No, again it seems I'll have to explain what I plainly wrote for simpletons like yourself - I explained that we'd finished second and were humiliated in the Prelim, now that means we finished the finals in a lower place on the ladder than we entered them which was a huge disappointment and one Cook and the club have acknowledged as a huge disappointment. So we had a disappointing finals series which clearly doesn't match up to our slogan. If we had've made the GF then I think we could rightly say we showed some level of 'greatness' like Sydney did. Any team that exits the finals in a superior position to what they entered them has done really well. I can see how you would've been confused by that however considering Geelong hasn't finished a finals series higher than when it entered them for 5 years now.

We won our final against a team ranked below us and lost our final against a team ranked above us, going on your theory we actually did exactly what was expected of us in the finals.

The two teams ranked below us actually played in the other prelim.

 

[BlightysCats]

We won our final against a team ranked below us and lost our final against a team ranked above us, going on your theory we actually did exactly what was expected of us in the finals.

The two teams ranked below us actually played in the other prelim.

My theory is if you enter finals ranked higher than you leave them then you've failed, my example of Sydney was a poor one, I admit, but I never mentioned anywhere that it mattered where the team was ranked that you were playing?? Where are you getting this from?

 

[romeohwho]

My theory is if you enter finals ranked higher than you leave them then you've failed, my example of Sydney was a poor one, I admit, but I never mentioned anywhere that it mattered where the team was ranked that you were playing?? Where are you getting this from?

That means everyone except the Doggies, GWS and Crows failed this year? So 5/8 flunked bc school. Can't be bothered going back but would be interested to see if this is reflective of a normal year.( or if potentially, the bye round had an impact)

 

[lionbear]

My theory is if you enter finals ranked higher than you leave them then you've failed, my example of Sydney was a poor one, I admit, but I never mentioned anywhere that it mattered where the team was ranked that you were playing?? Where are you getting this from?

Your theory is very black and white, we lost to the minor premier at the venue the Grand Final is played. So you are saying because we lost on the 23/9 instead of the 1/10 our season is a failure.

We have a 22 game season of which we only play 5 teams twice. We had an easy draw this year, next year we could finish 6th and lose the prelim, that doesn't make 2017 any better or worse than than 2016.

Even though I don't agree, I have no issue with you saying 2016 is a failure in your eyes, that's why we all debate it. But to say the club is failing with its motto and smashing everyone who supports the club for it is extreme.

 

[barmy44]

No, again it seems I'll have to explain what I plainly wrote for simpletons like yourself - I explained that we'd finished second and were humiliated in the Prelim, now that means we finished the finals in a lower place on the ladder than we entered them which was a huge disappointment and one Cook and the club have acknowledged as a huge disappointment. So we had a disappointing finals series which clearly doesn't match up to our slogan. If we had've made the GF then I think we could rightly say we showed some level of 'greatness' like Sydney did. Any team that exits the finals in a superior position to what they entered them has done really well. I can see how you would've been confused by that however considering Geelong hasn't finished a finals series higher than when it entered them for 5 years now.

might pay to get over this hang up you seem to have on a marketing slogan - they arent intended to be accurate representations of the state of an entity or product, they are for marketing purposes. its why cokes slogan isnt 'type 2 diabetes in a can'; mcdonalds isnt 'cheap and easy hardened arteries'; and st kildas isnt 'finishing last 27 times more than first!'

who honestly cares in the slightest what 'slogan' the club paste on their memberships drives? ridiculous to try and 'hold them to account' over that.

 

[romeohwho]

might pay to get over this hang up you seem to have on a marketing slogan - they arent intended to be accurate representations of the state of an entity or product, they are for marketing purposes. its what cokes slogan isnt 'type 2 diabetes in a can'; mcdonalds isnt 'cheap and easy hardened arteries'; and st kildas isnt 'finishing last 27 times more than first!'

who honestly cares in the slightest what 'slogan' the club paste on their memberships drives? ridiculous to try and 'hold them to account' over that.

Haha well said.

 

[Go Hoops]

might pay to get over this hang up you seem to have on a marketing slogan - they arent intended to be accurate representations of the state of an entity or product, they are for marketing purposes. its why cokes slogan isnt 'type 2 diabetes in a can'; mcdonalds isnt 'cheap and easy hardened arteries'; and st kildas isnt 'finishing last 27 times more than first!'

who honestly cares in the slightest what 'slogan' the club paste on their memberships drives? ridiculous to try and 'hold them to account' over that.

He sees himself as the clubs conscience so it's quite proper for him to tell the footy world how the club has made yet another error.

 

[Cataholic]

I Don't think I am better than anyone else on here but when someone doesn't read what I actually wrote and responds with absolute nonsense to condescend me then I'll respond in kind.
Maybe you should just concentrate on being the best mod you can be.

Your opinion......and there was no condescension in the response, nor a need to play the man and refer to the poster as a 'simpleton'.

Even if so, responding 'in kind' is immature.

 

[BlightysCats]

and there was no condescension in the response

There was, he began his response by saying 'going by your theory,' a theory mind you he totally made up himself and ascribed to me yet in no way reflected what I'd actually said, then proceeded to try to discredit the 'theory' by claiming I'd come up with a theory that meant the Bulldogs were the only possible team to get a pass mark this season and in the process inferring that each year the Premiership team was the only one that would get a pass mark from myself (basically it's just different wording of the old 'anyone who questions Scott expects us to win the flag every year' crap.) - if you don't think that's condescending that's fine but I'll make my own mind up on such matters thankyou, and I don't need someone like you attempting to morally police me on here.