Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

[David the Cat]

 

[BlightysCats]

With that in mind, I'm of the belief that Roos, Bomber, Ratten and Dew are all shot - I don't think they'd resonate with the players any more, or the ability to evolve with their strategies.....

What the hell do you base that on?!? Dew was just named assistant coach of the year by the AFLCA an award which is actually voted on by the coaches and players at each assistant coaches own club, he won it with one of the highest scores ever....You've just spoken absolute nonsense.

 

[Cataholic]

What the hell do you base that on?!? Dew was just named assistant coach of the year by the AFLCA an award which is actually voted on by the coaches and players at each assistant coaches own club, he won it with one of the highest scores ever....You've just spoken absolute nonsense.

Hang on........don't you champion the right for a person to have an alternate view without being ridiculed??

My opinion differs to yours - is it therefore automatically wrong?

I'm just not sure he would get it done at the top level. Do the best VFL players always make it at AFL level??

 

[BlightysCats]

Hang on........don't you champion the right for a person to have an alternate view without being ridiculed??

How did I ridicule you? I ridiculed what you said (there's a difference) using evidence to back up my argument against you. Also where did I say you aren't entitled to an opinion on the issue?

 

[Cataholic]

How did I ridicule you? I ridiculed what you said (there's a difference) using evidence to back up my argument against you. Also where did I say you aren't entitled to an opinion on the issue?

You ridicule a person's opinion and you ridicule them.

Now, does every top line VFL player make the grade in the AFL?

 

[BlightysCats]

You ridicule a person's opinion and you ridicule them.

I completely disagree, and if you feel that way then your scope for passionate debate will be sorely limited in life.

 

[Cataholic]

I completely disagree, and if you feel that way then your scope for passionate debate will be sorely limited in life.

View attachment 310363

I can discuss a subject as passionately as anyone, but I don't feel the need to use emotion and derogatory terms when doing so.

Exchanges of opinion and a robust discussion can occur without the childish use of terms like fan bois etc that too often occur here.

I see your point on Dew, but his success so far doesn't guarantee success at the highest level.

I wonder how many coaches there have been in the AFL since its inception, divided by the number who have won a GF? Jock won 8, a couple of others 2 or 3......so the odds are pretty long to begin with.

 

[GTOA]

All of them except Bomber are practical it's just you don't think they are because you're so deluded you think we can win a flag under Scott next year. We are doomed under Scott; done, gone, finished as a legitimate finals force. I don't take pleasure in saying it but we lack the depth in our list, the gamestyle, the speed and skill, and when it comes to the crunch the players simply don't show enough passion and clearly don't play for him. 2016 will prove to be a one off and with a harder draw and in all likelihood more injuries next year and the loss of Enright, Caddy, and Bartel we're going nowhere but backwards which will mean goodbye Chris Scott - and hello optimism for the future of the GFC instead of the darkness we currently inhabit as a club.

Are you so sure that we won't win a flag under Chris Scott again?

We came within one game of a Grand Final, after missing finals the previous year, so we improved this year.

I think that you take great pleasure in saying that you want Chris Scott sacked. In fact, I am convinced that you want Chris Scott to be sacked MORE than you want Chris Scott to coach us to another premiership, just so you can be proven right.

Besides, why is it always on the coach to motivate the players? How about they motivate themselves? In 2007, it wasn't some rousing speech that Bomber made which turned the club around, it was Paul Chapman and others saying that enough was enough, and that they needed to lift. The playing group motivated themselves, and got honest with one another.

Why can't the players do that again? Against Carlton, Collingwood, St. Kilda and Sydney, our players didn't run, chase or tackle. They had chance after chance to get back in the game, but gave up contests too easily. The players don't care enough, and it doesn't matter what any coach says, if players decide not to come and play.

Why didn't Blicavs play better after his B & F year? Why couldn't Caddy, Duncan and Guthrie help Dangerfield and Joel Selwood in the midfield more? Why couldn't Ruggles learn to kick? Why couldn't the defenders stop run ons of goals? Why don't other forwards step up and help Hawkins? Why couldn't Motlop be consistent? Why couldn't players be up for every game, not just the ones against finals sides? This isn't all up to the coach. Personal pride needs to come into it somewhere along the line.

The reason we lost this year was one reason-attitude! Our attitude stunk like it did in 2006. When we were playing a top team, we brought our A-game (we are the only team to beat the 2016 premiers, twice this year and deliver the Bulldogs their biggest loss this year). I am convinced that if we got the Bulldogs in the Grand Final, we would have beaten them, because we did it twice already. However, we came out against the Swans thinking that it was a fair accompli. That's on the players.

If we won the flag, you sure as hell wouldn't give Chris Scott any credit for it whatsoever, so if we don't, you can't give him blame either. If he is part of the reason of our failure, then he is part of the reason for our success as well.

Paul Roos wouldn't have done much better if players decide when to "play". We are better than Collingwood, Carlton and St. Kilda, and should have beaten them all.

Most games this year, I could tell two minutes in whether the players were switched on. Why switch on some weeks and not others? If it was the coach who couldn't motivate them when they lost, then he must have motivated them when they won. Why not blame the players themselves for losing as well? They are the ones going out there and doing it. If you praise the players when they win, you have to criticize them when they lose, and if you blame CS when we lose, then isn't he also responsible for our wins as well? You can't have it both ways.

Look, you hate Chris Scott. You probably hope he dies in some horrible way (since Geelong don't sack coaches) and I bet if you saw him crossing the road, you would speed up. But then, you're too stupid to understand what I am getting at anyway, and I am ashamed that you claim to follow the same club as me. You and BiggyBoy are proof that all clubs have idiot supporters. So, just go back to sucking Mark Thompson's dick, and keep your ill-informed comments to yourself.

 

[GTOA]

I am a Scott fan and don't believe any coach could have done a better job transitioning our list between 2011-2017 given the losses of all-time club greats like Scarlett, Ottens, Milburn, Ling, Corey, Chapman and Johnson to name a few.

But there's no arguing that 2017 is a make or break season for him. If we tread water or go backwards, questions will rightly be asked about not only his match day abilities but the club's philosophy in trading in mid-aged players with an eye on short-term success.

I firmly believe that our 2017 squad is good enough to win the premiership and beat any other team, so the entire club from the CEO and coach down need to bear responsibility if we fail to genuinely challenge.

I agree-EVERYONE is responsible. That includes the players, the CEO. EVERYONE.

Not just the coach!

 

[Partridge]

Very selective there, picking out those players, and claiming that we lost only THREE players the ten years Bomber was there. Didn't Bomber move on Jeremy Laidler (who played in the GF this year).

Nope. Laidler left at the end of 2010. It would have been Scott's call.

Also, Shane Mumford left on Bomber's watch, because Bomber gave up one of the best ruckman in the AFL, so that Mark Blake wouldn't cry about missing another GF. Let that sink in for a moment.

Absolutely. When Blake was preferred to Mumford in 2009 we won a premiership. Then in 2011 after Mumford left we won another one. Let that sink in for a moment.

All this while persisting with hacks like Charlie Gardiner and Henry Playfair.

No they didn't. Gardiner and Playfair left Geelong at the end of 2007.

Gary Ablett and Shane Mumford are much bigger losses than any of the people we lost under Chris Scott.

Since Ablett left we won one premiership. Since Mumford left we won two premierships.

Since every player moved on after 2011, we've won none.

 

[Vdubs]

another worry is we are seeing so many younger players ask to be traded. Caddy, Christensen, Hamling, Jansen, Vardy, Kersten. Motlop will be another that ends up leaving end of next year. Whether they brought it upon themselves in the first place is debatle. The enviroment they were living in was obviously not the best to begin with. I cannot recall many talented younger players leaving when Thompson, McCartney and Tudor were in charge. We lost Nathan Ablett and Brent Prismall. Simon Hogan was another that walked due to off field issues but apart from that, the exodus we are now witnessing under Scott's reign is going to send us back quite a while. Let's just hope Mitch Duncan does not get too home sick end of 2017.

Caddy- was never a Cat. An opportunist only.
Hamling- left a premiership team,(Dogs) and when he left us , it was our push.
Jansen- not one game with us, our decision effectively.
Vardy- could not get a game even with Clark and Kersten out. Our decision.
Kersten- we have heard for several years he was heading home. And could not get a game in the finals with Menzel out. Our decision.
Motlop- no bites at the trade table at all. Who put him there? Our doing.
Bundy- we couldn't exterminate him quickly enough.
Duncan- could be important trade bait for Fyfe


And what were your thoughts about super coach and the departures of Mitchell and Lewis?

 

[Partridge]

How did I ridicule you? I ridiculed what you said (there's a difference) using evidence to back up my argument against you. Also where did I say you aren't entitled to an opinion on the issue?

There's a massive difference. For some reason some can't seem to spot it.

 

[Partridge]

Needs to win something soon then. Early days he was all about "challenging in the now while not sacrificing the future". We've traded out 3 1st round draft picks in a row, so that mantra has obviously taken a backseat as we are going all in for the next year/couple of years. If we win a premiership short term then he is absolutely redeemed, but what if we don't?

Then the level of spin applied will reach extraordinary levels.

 

[Partridge]

And what were your thoughts about super coach and the departures of Mitchell and Lewis?

My thoughts VD, Hawthorn have always, always, applied a cold and ruthless edge with list management. Going back decades. When they think your time is up they move you on. They don't allow foolish things like sentimentality to get in the way of decision making.

A perfect example was two years ago. After they beat us in the Qualifying Final, they dropped Brad Sewell. He wasn't brought back for either the Prelim or the Grand Final. Which obviously they won. Then he was delisted. And he was a club best and fairest winner.

So my guess would be they know there's only so much footy left in Mitchell and Lewis, and they'd rather get games into other players. There's merit in arguments both ways on that.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

My thoughts VD, Hawthorn have always, always, applied a cold and ruthless edge with list management. Going back decades. When they think your time is up they move you on. They don't allow foolish things like sentimentality to get in the way of decision making.

A perfect example was two years ago. After they beat us in the Qualifying Final, they dropped Brad Sewell. He wasn't brought back for either the Prelim or the Grand Final. Which obviously they won. Then he was delisted. And he was a club best and fairest winner.

So my guess would be they know there's only so much footy left in Mitchell and Lewis, and they'd rather get games into other players. There's merit in arguments both ways on that.

So like Milburn, Hunt, Podsiadly, Mooney, Johnson, Kelly, Stokes then. All moved on when the club thought their time was indeed up.

 

[Vdubs]

My thoughts VD, Hawthorn have always, always, applied a cold and ruthless edge with list management. Going back decades. When they think your time is up they move you on. They don't allow foolish things like sentimentality to get in the way of decision making.

A perfect example was two years ago. After they beat us in the Qualifying Final, they dropped Brad Sewell. He wasn't brought back for either the Prelim or the Grand Final. Which obviously they won. Then he was delisted. And he was a club best and fairest winner.

So my guess would be they know there's only so much footy left in Mitchell and Lewis, and they'd rather get games into other players. There's merit in arguments both ways on that.

Never a truer reply.
Ayres, Tuck, Brereton...
Yet, and I know this is a digression, and hugely unpopular, Geelong tried to add that ruthlessness with a couple of ex Hawks for coaches, and the one we all remember- Ayres- was regarded by most Geelong supporters with disdain, largely because he recognised the sentimentalities and our way of having done things, and acted according to his (Hawthorn= successful) upbringing.
I personally never had negative thoughts about him as our coach, and believe he was unfairly maligned by many. Now I know this will shoot me down, but so be it. And I know you- not necessarily you personally, but- will dredge up all the evidence about his coaching foibles, but again, I did not perceive that.

Anyway, I agree with your point.
But if CS dares do things like that, he is a villain.

 

[GTOA]

Nope. Laidler left at the end of 2010. It would have been Scott's call.



Absolutely. When Blake was preferred to Mumford in 2009 we won a premiership. Then in 2011 after Mumford left we won another one. Let that sink in for a moment.



No they didn't. Gardiner and Playfair left Geelong at the end of 2007.



Since Ablett left we won one premiership. Since Mumford left we won two premierships.

Since every player moved on after 2011, we've won none.

First of all, Patridge, I don't know why you are flying the flag for BlightyCats. Maybe you want a piece of the action in the sexual tryst between BlightyCats and Bomber, menage en tois.

End of 2010. That depends on when Laidler left. Did he leave BEFORE we appointed Chris Scott? If so, then it was on Mark Thompson's watch.

I'm not sure about this, but, if I remember, Chris Scott was appointed after the trade period that year. If so, Laidler would have already declared that he was leaving.

We would have won that premiership with Mumford as well. Blake did his job that day, and deserved his medal, but, long-term, Mumford would have been the better option. But then, Bomber focused on the here-and-now, and winning flags, rather than long-term. You know, like how you criticize Chris Scott for giving away picks to get a flag "now", yet you had no problem with Bomber doing the same thing.

Sure, Gardiner and Playfair left, but not before spudding it up game after game. Gardiner accumulated something like 20-25 games, when he should have had his papers stamped after 2-3 games, when it was obvious that he didn't have a clue.

You say how we won a flag since Ablett and Mumford left. But you don't acknowledge that flag, and say that he only got that because of the "old guard". So, if you brag that we won the 2011 flag without Ablett or Mumford, then you have to acknowledge Chris Scott's part in getting us that flag as well.

Anyone who doesn't back the coach in, on this board, should get lost and go and follow another team. We have made finals all but one year under Scott, and still remain in a premiership window. We aren't exactly bottom four, so stop whining in a self-entitled tone like a Richmond supporter.

I don't want Chris Scott sacked. I want him to be our 2+ premiership coach.

 

[David the Cat]

There's a massive difference. For some reason some can't seem to spot it.

I'm sure you recognize that the author of the post you quoted regularly ridicules and belittles other posters. The reaction to him is perfectly understandable.

Perhaps he didn't play the man in that particular exchange, but if you walk like a duck and quack like a duck, sometimes you'll be called a ****ing duck.

 

[Cataholic]

There's a massive difference. For some reason some can't seem to spot it.

That obviously applies to me.

Care to explain?

 

[Catman]

Scott may yet prove me wrong. But I saw nothing in our last final to show me anything has improved when it matters, and by gutting our depth, plus the wasteland that has been our recent drafting history, it's a struggle to see where a unified and consistent premiership combination is coming from.

Gutting our depth?

Vardy who played 25 games in 7 years and wanted a fresh start?

Kersten who wanted to return to WA?

Smedts who played 38 games in 6 years? Like Vardy needed a fresh start.

Caddy who was seduced by Richmond?

Just how long do you keep players who are surplus to requirements or want away? Three of these players weren't wanted anywhere near the team and for various reasons couldn't get anywhere near the team, yet they are now vital depth?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

.'
'In 2014/15 a club that prides itself on its values found that it had to sack people; including people who had been there a long time and were seen as part of the clubs fabric. Cook and human resources manager Rosie King say they drew the lesson from this unhappy time that values have to include excellence and making staff accountable for achieving it, otherwise it can be a shield for mediocrity.'

Now if Cook is sacking people that are considered part of the 'fabric of the club' for not achieving excellence then the question has to be asked has Scott achieved excellence over the last 5 years? If not, how can Cook justify his continued employment and if he does then how can he justify his own?

By your own standard we even had an outstanding season, you simply had too much of a personal issue with Scott to give credit when he blew out of the water so many of your expectations and goals. When the time came to aknowledge these you were only full of more issues and shifted the goal post. If I am mistaken then please refer me to these posts where you gave praise or credit. All everyone recalls is a poster who couldn't swallow his own pride and words when it came to it.

And please drop the I demand premierships hard nut talk. By your own admission your favourite Geelong coach and era was Malcolm blight who lead us to the greatest era of successive finals failure and the label "handbaggers". Your just trying to use this is a cover up for your trolling of our coach.

Yes cook is doing an amazing job. Good CEO"s are always evaluation and asking questions and getting to the bottom of things and about results, I would expect no less. He would know inside out what everyone is giving and to what level, and he deems Scott to be doing an excellent job and rightly so he is. He took our club from 9th to 3rd and a baby step away from a premiership. There was only one team in the top 8 that we couldn't beat in 16, everyone else in the top 8 we had covered. That is close to a flag in any definition.

Take a look at the age of our list. We are in no way doomed the slightest, we only have a small handful of players 30 plus. Our midfield is coming into its prime over the next few seasons and so is our forward line. We have to only transition the defense which we are doing right now and we will have a perfectly balanced side to have a red hot crack.

Let's see how GWS keeps all its players and holds it together. Let's see if the Bulldogs back this uear up under more scrutiny and attention of their style.

I think we are well poised to improve and have a real crack, which is why Scott is getting a contract extension. The way he has transitioned a side with no quality draft picks and an ageing list from a champion era is nothing short of phenominal. Look at what happened to Brisbane Essendon after their champion eras, Collingwood st kilda after their top sides. They were all shit for a good period of time. Nobody has been able to do what Scott has done transitioning an elite team out of its twilight while rebuilding and also remaining a strong force. Let's see how hawthorn goes in comparison the next five years shall we?? Do you think they will win a premiership in the next five seasons blighty??

You have to realise how tough a job it is taking over a champion team in the twilight of its time, that phase after is usually always a very difficult management and often very poor on field time. He has managed it better than any other.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I am a Scott fan and don't believe any coach could have done a better job transitioning our list between 2011-2017 given the losses of all-time club greats like Scarlett, Ottens, Milburn, Ling, Corey, Chapman and Johnson to name a few.

But there's no arguing that 2017 is a make or break season for him. If we tread water or go backwards, questions will rightly be asked about not only his match day abilities but the club's philosophy in trading in mid-aged players with an eye on short-term success.

I firmly believe that our 2017 squad is good enough to win the premiership and beat any other team, so the entire club from the CEO and coach down need to bear responsibility if we fail to genuinely challenge.

Exactly.

Look at all the sides who have had champion teams and the aftermath, none of them were anything more than a cellar dweller for half a decade after that. Brisbane after its triple run where a basket case, Essendon after its run early 2000s was a basket case, st kilda Collingwood after their top sides were crap. This notion you can sit up the top then in the twilight with ageing stars phasing out and no good draft picks for years, that all of a sudden your going to be building towards greatness again. It is a very difficult struggling time for clubs and always has been in the modern era. Scott has transitioned and managed this phenomenally well in comparison.


Look at the age of our list, the only area with an ageing crisis is our defense, but that is being transitioned well at the moment. Our midfield and forward line will only get better in 17, we have several who should naturally improve after full injury free seasons or simply a year or so more into the middle of their twenties which is prime for most midfielders.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

First of all, Patridge, I don't know why you are flying the flag for BlightyCats. Maybe you want a piece of the action in the sexual tryst between BlightyCats and Bomber, menage en tois.

End of 2010. That depends on when Laidler left. Did he leave BEFORE we appointed Chris Scott? If so, then it was on Mark Thompson's watch.

I'm not sure about this, but, if I remember, Chris Scott was appointed after the trade period that year. If so, Laidler would have already declared that he was leaving.

We would have won that premiership with Mumford as well. Blake did his job that day, and deserved his medal, but, long-term, Mumford would have been the better option. But then, Bomber focused on the here-and-now, and winning flags, rather than long-term. You know, like how you criticize Chris Scott for giving away picks to get a flag "now", yet you had no problem with Bomber doing the same thing.

Sure, Gardiner and Playfair left, but not before spudding it up game after game. Gardiner accumulated something like 20-25 games, when he should have had his papers stamped after 2-3 games, when it was obvious that he didn't have a clue.

You say how we won a flag since Ablett and Mumford left. But you don't acknowledge that flag, and say that he only got that because of the "old guard". So, if you brag that we won the 2011 flag without Ablett or Mumford, then you have to acknowledge Chris Scott's part in getting us that flag as well.

Anyone who doesn't back the coach in, on this board, should get lost and go and follow another team. We have made finals all but one year under Scott, and still remain in a premiership window. We aren't exactly bottom four, so stop whining in a self-entitled tone like a Richmond supporter.

I don't want Chris Scott sacked. I want him to be our 2+ premiership coach.

Here here!

Sadly there is always finger wagging extreme lefties, even on footy boards..

It is a small group on here. Sadly they just won't be able to enjoy and share any success we have, as nobody really will have respect left for them

They can always head over the the Footscray and hawthorn boards and have a tug on their pages

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I'm exactly the same

It's why I have said all along there is no need to re-sign him early as well.

No need to rush the call, let things take their course and go from there

The fact they are so keen to get it done early is a reflection of his highly they regard his coaching abilities.

Otherwise they would wait, but they want it done and sealed asap.

No doubt they wouldn't want other clubs sniffing around after him. There are clubs who would be lining up for him if they thought the door ajar to snatch him.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Are you so sure that we won't win a flag under Chris Scott again?

We came within one game of a Grand Final, after missing finals the previous year, so we improved this year.

I think that you take great pleasure in saying that you want Chris Scott sacked. In fact, I am convinced that you want Chris Scott to be sacked MORE than you want Chris Scott to coach us to another premiership, just so you can be proven right.

Besides, why is it always on the coach to motivate the players? How about they motivate themselves? In 2007, it wasn't some rousing speech that Bomber made which turned the club around, it was Paul Chapman and others saying that enough was enough, and that they needed to lift. The playing group motivated themselves, and got honest with one another.

Why can't the players do that again? Against Carlton, Collingwood, St. Kilda and Sydney, our players didn't run, chase or tackle. They had chance after chance to get back in the game, but gave up contests too easily. The players don't care enough, and it doesn't matter what any coach says, if players decide not to come and play.

Why didn't Blicavs play better after his B & F year? Why couldn't Caddy, Duncan and Guthrie help Dangerfield and Joel Selwood in the midfield more? Why couldn't Ruggles learn to kick? Why couldn't the defenders stop run ons of goals? Why don't other forwards step up and help Hawkins? Why couldn't Motlop be consistent? Why couldn't players be up for every game, not just the ones against finals sides? This isn't all up to the coach. Personal pride needs to come into it somewhere along the line.

The reason we lost this year was one reason-attitude! Our attitude stunk like it did in 2006. When we were playing a top team, we brought our A-game (we are the only team to beat the 2016 premiers, twice this year and deliver the Bulldogs their biggest loss this year). I am convinced that if we got the Bulldogs in the Grand Final, we would have beaten them, because we did it twice already. However, we came out against the Swans thinking that it was a fair accompli. That's on the players.

If we won the flag, you sure as hell wouldn't give Chris Scott any credit for it whatsoever, so if we don't, you can't give him blame either. If he is part of the reason of our failure, then he is part of the reason for our success as well.

Paul Roos wouldn't have done much better if players decide when to "play". We are better than Collingwood, Carlton and St. Kilda, and should have beaten them all.

Most games this year, I could tell two minutes in whether the players were switched on. Why switch on some weeks and not others? If it was the coach who couldn't motivate them when they lost, then he must have motivated them when they won. Why not blame the players themselves for losing as well? They are the ones going out there and doing it. If you praise the players when they win, you have to criticize them when they lose, and if you blame CS when we lose, then isn't he also responsible for our wins as well? You can't have it both ways.

Look, you hate Chris Scott. You probably hope he dies in some horrible way (since Geelong don't sack coaches) and I bet if you saw him crossing the road, you would speed up. But then, you're too stupid to understand what I am getting at anyway, and I am ashamed that you claim to follow the same club as me. You and BiggyBoy are proof that all clubs have idiot supporters. So, just go back to sucking Mark Thompson's dick, and keep your ill-informed comments to yourself.

Pretty much sums it up. Which is why he and others aren't in a position to qualify am unbiased balanced call on the topic, they lack the clarity to do so.