Nathan Lyon 2016-17

Remove this Banner Ad

Apr 19, 2013
9,919
6,201
Melbourne
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
The Swans Blog
I'll try to keep these stats up to date:


Player|O|E|B|M|R|W|E/R|S/R|R/W|R/I|W/I|Innings\
Lyon|361.7|0|2167| 44| 1217| 31| 3.37| 69.90| 39.26| 76.06| 1.94| 16\
O'Keefe| 184.2| 0| 1106| 38| 448| 22| 2.43| 50.27| 20.36| 64| 3.14| 7
3rd Test vs India

tl;dr

Lyon is overrated, his summer performance have been atrocious and has been completely out bowled by SOK the last 2 Australian tests. SOK's test stats back up his FC record, Lyons' don't. Lyon has been tonked for a ton of runs, often going wicketless and conceding 100+ in almost every innings. SOK has been tidy, efficient and sometimes very effective. Lyon should have been dropped after the 2nd SA test fiasco.
------------

There's a lot of debate over Nathan Lyon, and if it wasn't for SOKs indiscretions and fitness issues aside, Lyon may not even be in the test team.

You would all remember that after the Proteas debacle the call was put out to the FC players to find a replacement for underperforming players in the test side. A few deserved the chop (M.Marsh, Lyon, Burns, Mennie, Ferguson, Voges), while I think most would agree that Nevill was harshly and unfairly dealt with.

Lyon somehow survived the cull, but it wasn't with merit. His first innings performance was a bit s**t considering the overall bowling performance, but recovered in the 2nd innings to snare 3 wickets. Until the 3rd match, he'd taken just 2 wickets @ 120.5, a truly diabolical rate. He finished the series with 6/346, averaging just under 60, so not too bad, but for a primary bowler, still very ordinary.

And then Pakistan happened. While the Pakistanis almost pulled off a miracle win (what would have been the most embarrassing loss of all time for any team, anywhere in the history of test cricket), Lyon was on the end of the 'tonk' treatment. For the match he took 2/139 off 40 overs, just under 70. He improved in the 2nd match, taking 4/148, but 1/115 in the first innings, then finished off the series with 5/215, 100 or more in both innings.

The last match is the first time Lyon and O'Keefe bowled together for the 2016/17 summer. SOK took 4 @ 25.75, while Lyon took 5 @ 43. Has anything changed in India? No. Considering India scored bugger all (212), he still conceded a third of their runs. His stats are a lot better, 5 @ 14.8, but SOK took a ridiculous 12 @ 5.8, SOK's strike rate is also less than half of Lyons.

There was a robust argument here and in the media about whether or not Smith was using Lyon correctly. It was clear that Smith didn't have confidence in his ability to lock down an end, or to make the breakthrough. Lyon himself was lacking confidence in Australian conditions and seriously struggled. The fact that SOK playing his 2nd test averaged 25 and Lyon playing almost his 70th test averaged 43 in favourable conditions reflects the difference in confidence and ability of the two.

Is Lyon overrated? In my mind he is, and his career stats don't paint a great picture, certainly not of a strike bowler, but one that's struggled for consistency in between fantastic performances. There's been games when he's dominated and brought home the bacon, but far too many games when he's been hit to all corners, barely getting 2 or 3, but conceding almost half the oppositions score. Conceding 315 in a dead rubber is a pretty s**t performance. Even his best bowling figures in Australia is poor, 7/152 -consider that he was 1/100+ before India tried to slap him out of the park. At least he can console himself with his 7/94 against India in India, pretty good effort (@4/over), but still ultimately lost by 6 wickets, getting turkey slapped in the 2nd innings.

SOK vs Lyon bowling together
Economy rate: SOK
Strike rate: SOK
Average: SOK
Wickets: SOK
Man of the match: SOK

Lyon's career was saved by SOK not being ready in time, but only just.
 
Last edited:
You gotta bear in mind that O'Keefe and Lyon only bowl together on spin-friendly pitches, which is historically not Lyon's best surface.

I do rate O'Keefe an awful lot, but Lyon (when he's bowling well) gets lovely drift and dip and bounce. Those are the sort of qualities that let you succeed on a whole range of surfaces.

I would love to see what O'Keefe can do at Test level on a wider variety of pitches. But right now I still feel like Lyon is #1. If he has a good series I want him to stay in the team, regardless of which spinner comes out on top.
 
It's best to look at their FC stats.

Lyon has 351 wickets in 202 innings, averaging 37 and striking every 70 balls.
SOK has 237 from 117, averaging under 23 and striking every 54 balls.

He's backed those stats up on the big stage. His first test against Pakistan he took 4/103, averaged 25 with S/R of 55. That's far better than anything Lyon produced in his 'home' conditions.

SOK has played 5 tests, bowled 7 innings and has 26 wickets. Averages 20, strikes 40 and goes at 3 runs an over. Obviously padded big time from his latest match, but that's still bloody impressive. Just some shitty bias kept him out.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

If we get some batting tracks in the series and o keefe out bowls lyon you would think he would have the job for the ashes.

lyon did struggle badly in the SA series where we were rolled for low scores on green pitches but i don't think we should be making our long term spin choice on that series, the ashes will be on generally flat tracks with some bounce and with big scores backing him up i personally think lyon can still do the job on those decks and it is a very hard job at that as the many world class spinners who got their skulls thumped in(ashwin yasir swann) will tell you.
 
Just had a quick squiz at ESPNs innings list for SOK, he hasn't gone wicketless when he's bowled. Until India, he was taking about 3.5/match (4.0v Pak, 3.0 v WI, 3.0 v SL).

I don't want to turn this into a SOK vs Lyon thread, but you can't argue with those stats. Lyon goes wicketless almost every match and its friggen frustrating to watch.
 
I should add i like o keefe and he is clearly the best choice to replace lyon but my worry is how fast aussies turn on our spinners when they prove to be mortal on our tracks, will o keefe be given a whole ashes series or will the knives be out if he struggles on a flat deck or 2?

My biggest worry is the spinner merry go round starting again after o keefe gets dumped and we have 13 spinners in 2 years or whatever the hell it was last time.
 
I don't think Warne blowing his trumpet for all these shitty, 'flashy' spinners, helps either. Spin is an art form, just because you can rip it from one side to the other doesn't make you effective. Lyons' at his best when it's dipping and weaving and all over the place, but against SA, Pakistan and India, he just bowled the same s**t over after over.

What's the one thing he did most against Pakistan when they hit him for big runs? Kept throwing those bloody 95km/h darts that go straight on, almost never turn and had predictable bounce. He still did better than traveling spinners. SOK comes in and destroys Lyons' stats in 1 match.

So what should a spinner do? Build pressure by bowling tight lines and attacking the stumps, bowl fast and try to get drift and bounce, or try to rip it? In my opinion, a spinner has to be able to do all of that. Its why Ashwin is probably the best spinner in the world at the moment and its why SOK caused all sorts of trouble.

But what does Lyon do? Puts it about a foot & half outside off, far too short and rips it, every single bloody ball. SOK had 12 for the match before Lyon started cashing in, with his poultry 2 to that point. If you're going to bowl the same s**t every ball with minimal variation or change, you're going to get slapped to all parts.
 
Lyon is a very average bowler who has been very lucky to play test cricket at all. I truly hate the fact that he has been gifted so many tests in his career by the selectors. Fan Fact: even Glenn Maxwell has a better Sheffield Shield career bowling average.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Your arguments are all over the place. It's a headache to read.

That's fair enough, I wanted to have a bit of a rant/bitch session

What do you think O'Keefe bowls exactly?
Tight lines with variation, uses the arm ball, slider and tweaker to great effect. He's not flashy, or a big turner, but has a great strike rate and very good average, for a damn good reason. 26 wickets in 5 tests is a damn good effort. Lyon just tries to turn it from left to right with dip and bounce.
 
Oddly, given that Warne is probably SOK's biggest critic claiming he doesn't spin it; MacGill who was Warne's biggest rival for the Australian spinner spot was a substantially bigger turner of the ball than Warne.

I think one of Lyon's biggest problems of recent times has been is that he seems to want to bowl to left handers. This idea of bowling around the wicket to right hand batsmen on a leg stump line is just complete rubbish.
 
Oddly, given that Warne is probably SOK's biggest critic claiming he doesn't spin it; MacGill who was Warne's biggest rival for the Australian spinner spot was a substantially bigger turner of the ball than Warne.

I think one of Lyon's biggest problems of recent times has been is that he seems to want to bowl to left handers. This idea of bowling around the wicket to right hand batsmen on a leg stump line is just complete rubbish.
2nd innings, 1st over, 4 byes. 2nd over, 4 byes. :rolleyes:
 
I'll try to keep these stats up to date:

SOK vs Lyon bowling together
Economy rate: SOK
Strike rate: SOK
Average: SOK
Wickets: SOK
Man of the match: SOK

Lyon's career was saved by SOK not being ready in time, but only just.

Just for the sake of it,

Warne vs Macgill bowling together:

Economy rate: Warne (3.13 vs 3.17)
Strike rate: Macgill
Average: Macgill
Wickets: Macgill
Man of the match: Macgill

Direct comparison a touch misleading.
 
Just for the sake of it,

Warne vs Macgill bowling together:

Economy rate: Warne (3.13 vs 3.17)
Strike rate: Macgill
Average: Macgill
Wickets: Macgill
Man of the match: Macgill

Direct comparison a touch misleading.
Of course, but here we are, talking about Lyon as if he's some kind of spin god.
 
Did Nathan Lyon run over your dog or something chunkychicken? :)

He wasn't in the best of form vs Sth Africa but started turning the corner v Pakistan & looked good in pune couldve had more wickets but he applied plenty of pressure from the other end.

Part of the issue was the batting vs Sth Africa always helps the bowlers when there are runs on the board. Especially for a spinner. When the batting improved lyons form started to as well
 
Just for the sake of it,

Warne vs Macgill bowling together:

Economy rate: Warne (3.13 vs 3.17)
Strike rate: Macgill
Average: Macgill
Wickets: Macgill
Man of the match: Macgill

Direct comparison a touch misleading.

Warnie was amazing but perhaps Australia does rate him with a touch of mythology. Perhaps the like of Benaud, MacGill, OReilly etc aren't that far behind our great warnie.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top