Docklands (Etihad) stadium new AFL tenant club agreements

[The_Wookie]

Moving games out of Melbourne is a hobby horse of mine - finding someone to pay good money is ongoing, & so far they've snaffled the taxpayers of Tas, NT & Q. The reality is that there is demand for more footy in both Adelaide & Perth & it wont require local taxpayers funding, it can be done inside the footy business model in both markets.
There are only 24 games every year in Adelaide & Perth compared to 100+ in Melbourne.

as Im sure you're aware, the games in north queensland, darwin and Tasmania extend the leagues reach. Adding games to Perth and adelaide wont.

 

[Kwality]

as Im sure you're aware, the games in north queensland, darwin and Tasmania extend the leagues reach. Adding games to Perth and adelaide wont.

Of course spreading the game is an important initiative - more games in Adelaide & Perth will allow more fans to see AFL footy live.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It would cost a fortune that the AFL doesnt have.



City council would never approve and the state wont offer funding for a competitor to the MCG.

It would be fun to watch the freak out of the park mob though

 

[JohnZ]

Yep more than 12 games in Perth for the Eagles & Dockers, less games than some of the Melbourne teams get in Melbourne - the unsatisfied demand for AFL footy in one market, the oversupply in another.
As long as the Grand Final stays at the G, the home ground advantage cry is very shallow.
Help even up the travel too, or are you too special to carry your weight?
When games are being transferred out of Melbourne already, why shouldnt fans in Adelaide & Perth be considered?

More likely to get games moved to KP before WA

 

[Kwality]

More likely to get games moved to KP before WA

No argument, the AFL happily accommodate moving games for some clubs only.
Interesting that the AFL no longer hang out for the biggest crowd.

The other problem for the AFL ignoring the demand in SA & WA is turning these markets to another Tas.

 

[NoobPie]

No argument, the AFL happily accommodate moving games for some clubs only.
Interesting that the AFL no longer hang out for the biggest crowd.

The other problem for the AFL ignoring the demand in SA & WA is turning these markets to another Tas.

If not for all your other absurd comments, this would indeed be your most absurd comment

 

[Kwality]

If not for all your other absurd comments, this would indeed be your most absurd comment

You've chosen to ignore recent SA draft numbers ... take the blinkers off or deny, deny, deny.

 

[JohnZ]

AFL doesn't move games for any clubs (except Geelong to fulfil stadium contracts due to my next point). Clubs sign deals for games to be played away from home for money. Hawthorn, North, Bulldogs and Melbourne all profit from selling home games.

If the SA or WA government want to buy games from any club (like PA bought a GC home game to take to China), they are free to do so, however unlike regional VIC, Tas or NT, they wouldn't benefit nearly as much from it, so don't. WA3 will happen eventually, maybe even SA3 (less likely).

My guess is that down the track, North move to Tasmania, and a Canberra and WA3 team make a 20 team comp. But as for the afl willy nilly moving games to WA to satisfy some desire for WA to travel less? Won't happen, as it is, the AFL don't particularly like teams (especially hawthorn) selling home games.

AFL makes more money by setting up new teams where there is money to be made (ie GWS). AFL wants skin in the game, not the clubs.

 

[NoobPie]

You've chosen to ignore recent SA draft numbers ... take the blinkers off or deny, deny, deny.

If only curmudgeonry was a substitute for critical thinking

 

[Kwality]

AFL doesn't move games for any clubs (except Geelong to fulfil stadium contracts due to my next point). Clubs sign deals for games to be played away from home for money. Hawthorn, North, Bulldogs and Melbourne all profit from selling home games.

If the SA or WA government want to buy games from any club (like PA bought a GC home game to take to China), they are free to do so, however unlike regional VIC, Tas or NT, they wouldn't benefit nearly as much from it, so don't. WA3 will happen eventually, maybe even SA3 (less likely).

My guess is that down the track, North move to Tasmania, and a Canberra and WA3 team make a 20 team comp. But as for the afl willy nilly moving games to WA to satisfy some desire for WA to travel less? Won't happen, as it is, the AFL don't particularly like teams (especially hawthorn) selling home games.

AFL makes more money by setting up new teams where there is money to be made (ie GWS). AFL wants skin in the game, not the clubs.

Understand where you are coming from but you do not address the issue of oversupply in one market & excess demand in others, yes it does address the travel inequity too, but its a consequence not the reason.
Dont buy more teams, the lists are shallow talent wise as it is.
We've seen how poorly Tas has performed after years of AFL neglect, milking potential growth areas to stump up the bank balances of Melbourne clubs is a bandaid.

 

[JohnZ]

Understand where you are coming from but you do not address the issue of oversupply in one market & excess demand in others, yes it does address the travel inequity too, but its a consequence not the reason.

Moving North to Tassie, and Adding a 3rd WA address both of those concerns, but to your point, who will pay for Melbourne teams to play home games in WA? You? the WA taxpayer? WC and Freo members?

 

[BringBackTorps]

No argument, the AFL happily accommodate moving games for some clubs only.
Interesting that the AFL no longer hang out for the biggest crowd.

The other problem for the AFL ignoring the demand in SA & WA is turning these markets to another Tas.

WA & SA will never emulate the Tas. GR & AFL Draft disaster. Because WA & SA have their OWN AFL teams, the concomitant GR pathways, AF expertise & "glamour", & Draft success will always exist.

A major flaw in your argument that the AFL is not servicing the "true" WA & SA public demand for attending AFL games is the small capacity of the new stadia WA & SA have built -& your relatively poor crowds (cf pop. size).

Adelaide replaced one 55,000 stadium with a 53,000 stadium, which is averaging crowds c. 43,000 in 2017, & is rarely close to capacity. Yet in 1965, with a pop. c.1/3 less, the GF had a crowd of c.62,000 -& weekly SANFL crowds in previous decades were similar to today's 43,000 average. Why didn't SA build Adelaide Oval capacity to meet similar Adelaide pop. growth?
Similar argument is relevant to Perth, where the pop. has increased by c.133%+ since the 60's -yet the new Perth Stadium will have a capacity of only 60,000. The WAFL GF Subiaco record crowd was c.53,000 in 1979, with strong crowds also in the 1960's.

The MCG GF in 1970 had a crowd of. c.121,500, when Melb. had a pop. of c.2,200,000. It is very disappointing PS has such a small capacity, & negates your proposition.

 

[NoobPie]

WA & SA will never emulate the Tas. GR & AFL Draft disaster. Because WA & SA have their OWN AFL teams, the concomitant GR pathways, AF expertise & "glamour", & Draft success will always exist.

A major flaw in your argument that the AFL is not servicing the "true" WA & SA public demand for attending AFL games is the small capacity of the new stadia WA & SA have built -& your relatively poor crowds (cf pop. size).
Adelaide replaced one 55,000 stadium with a 53,000 stadium, which is averaging crowds c. 43,000 in 2017, & is rarely close to capacity. Yet in 1965, with a pop. c.1/3 less, the GF had a crowd of c.62,000 -& weekly SANFL crowds in previous decades were similar to today's average. Why didn't SA build Adelaide Oval capacity to meet similar Adelaide per capita pop. growth.
Similar argument is relevant to Perth, where the pop. has increased by c.133% since the 60's -yet the new Perth Stadium will have a capacity of only 60,000.

What? Crows crowds are routinely close to capacity!

 

[BringBackTorps]

What? Crows crowds are routinely close to capacity!

Is the capacity of AO c. 53500? This is very small cf. the previous record crowd of c.62,000 in 1965, when Adelaide was much smaller.
In the last 2 years, IIRC, there have not been many times that Adelaide or PA have had crowds of 51,500+?

 

[Rabman]

Is the capacity of AO c. 53500? This is very small cf. the previous record crowd of c.62,000 in 1965, when Adelaide was much smaller.
In the last 2 years, IIRC, there have not been many times that Adelaide or PA have had crowds of 51,500+?

Record at Adelaide oval is 62,543 Port V Sturt 1965, Overall record is 66,897 1976 GF at footy park. I agree we should have a stadium similar if not bigger than Perths, The passion for footy in Adelaide rivals it in Victoria irrelevant of our population. North Adelaide residences and old timers stopping the stadium from being complete.

 

[NoobPie]

Record at Adelaide oval is 62,543 Port V Sturt 1965, Overall record is 66,897 1976 GF at footy park. I agree we should have a stadium similar if not bigger than Perths, The passion for footy in Adelaide rivals it in Victoria irrelevant of our population. North Adelaide residences and old timers stopping the stadium from being complete.

Hopefully a few more flares and punch ons on the hill will accelerate the building of a proper stand at that end of the ground!

 

[Rabman]

Hopefully a few more flares and punch ons on the hill will accelerate the building of a proper stand at that end of the ground!

HAHAHA LOL, Premiership or 2 would be a good excuse as well, like i said to many old timers and SACA fools stop the Oval from allowing the stadium to achieve its full potential.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

HAHAHA LOL, Premiership or 2 would be a good excuse as well, like i said to many old timers and SACA fools stop the Oval from allowing the stadium to achieve its full potential.

#whosthinkingofthetrees

 

[Kwality]

Moving North to Tassie, and Adding a 3rd WA address both of those concerns, but to your point, who will pay for Melbourne teams to play home games in WA? You? the WA taxpayer? WC and Freo members?

As the games I propose would make a profit, that's where the Melb clubs get a feed. The WA clubs would not the same rights as a home game, its not about increasing the number of home games for the home clubs, its creating a different class under the AFL, addressing a couple of games a year that traditionally lose money in Melbourne, turning them into cash cows for the Melbourne clubs.
Fans that haven't been able to see games due sold out stadiums would get the opportunity
Until the arrangements at the new stadium are finalised its premature & up to the clubs how they plan to allocate the extra 10k+ seats they will have available.

A 3rd team is a fine theory , not a fan of more teams, more 2nd tier players posing as AFL players, different subject.

 

[Kwality]

WA & SA will never emulate the Tas. GR & AFL Draft disaster. Because WA & SA have their OWN AFL teams, the concomitant GR pathways, AF expertise & "glamour", & Draft success will always exist.

A major flaw in your argument that the AFL is not servicing the "true" WA & SA public demand for attending AFL games is the small capacity of the new stadia WA & SA have built -& your relatively poor crowds (cf pop. size).

Adelaide replaced one 55,000 stadium with a 53,000 stadium, which is averaging crowds c. 43,000 in 2017, & is rarely close to capacity. Yet in 1965, with a pop. c.1/3 less, the GF had a crowd of c.62,000 -& weekly SANFL crowds in previous decades were similar to today's 43,000 average. Why didn't SA build Adelaide Oval capacity to meet similar Adelaide pop. growth.
Similar argument is relevant to Perth, where the pop. has increased by c.133%+ since the 60's -yet the new Perth Stadium will have a capacity of only 60,000. The WAFL GF Subiaco record crowd was c.53,000 in 1979, with strong crowds also in the 1960's.

The MCG GF in 1970 had a crowd of. c.121,500, when Melb. had a pop. of c.2,200,000. It is very disappointing PS has such a small capacity, & negates your proposition.

I'm sure you are convinced by your argument BUT, we are dealing with reality, the size of the grounds is what they are, the way clubs sell there seating packages is what is best for them (see Geelong v Richmond last weekend), not whats best for the game.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Record at Adelaide oval is 62,543 Port V Sturt 1965, Overall record is 66,897 1976 GF at footy park. I agree we should have a stadium similar if not bigger than Perths, The passion for footy in Adelaide rivals it in Victoria irrelevant of our population. North Adelaide residences and old timers stopping the stadium from being complete.

Did Football Park have considerable standing room in the 70's -how was 66,897 fitted into it?
It would be appreciated if you could refer me to where I can obtain SANFL H & A, & Finals'crowd figures. I have previously read the record Adelaide crowd was the 62,000 at the 1965 GF.

 

[The_Wookie]

Did Football Park have considerable standing room in the 70's -how was 66,897 fitted into it?
It would be appreciated if you could refer me to where I can obtain SANFL H & A, & Finals'crowd figures. I have previously read the record Adelaide crowd was the 62,000 at the 1965 GF.

You're talking about the record crowd at Adelaide Oval, not the overall record for a SANFL crowd. I dont think there is a site for SANFL crowds. Theres a note on the SANFLs Wikipedia page that indicates the record crowd was at Football Park.

 

[Rabman]

Did Football Park have considerable standing room in the 70's -how was 66,897 fitted into it?
It would be appreciated if you could refer me to where I can obtain SANFL H & A, & Finals'crowd figures. I have previously read the record Adelaide crowd was the 62,000 at the 1965 GF.

http://australianfootball.com/leagues/biggest_crowd/SANFL/107/Premiership+season/3 all there for you. 1976 GF packed in like sardines that day, people were sitting literally 1 meter from the boundary line, sitting on top of the clock tower, there was at least another 20,000 turned away from the gates.

 

[BringBackTorps]

http://australianfootball.com/leagues/biggest_crowd/SANFL/107/Premiership+season/3 all there for you. 1976 GF packed in like sardines that day, people were sitting literally 1 meter from the boundary line, sitting on top of the clock tower, there was at least another 20,000 turned away from the gates.
View attachment 404604

WOW! 66,897! Adelaide rocks! I dips me lid to youse Croweaters -BIGGER GF per capita footyheads then than us "smug" Vics. (MCG 1970 GF 121, 500 -Melb. pop. c. 2,200,00)
I also note the 53,473 crowd who attended AO GF in 1946; & the 1981 H & A crowd of 35,213, Nor. v. PA

Much bigger standing room area then at Adelaide FP in 1976, enabling them to get 66,897 -& the punters were even sitting ON the playing oval, next to the fence...LOL! I would have loved to have been there. Is this game on the internet? Probably available on DVD -where?
How "solid"was the estimate that c. another 20,000 were turned away from the 1976 GF?

It's sad to see what is happening to the SANFL now, with the smothering effect of the AFL (& the AFL's per capita shrinking crowds). We are losing football culture & tribalism. Ticket prices everywhere should be affordable to working class families, perhaps $20 max. for adult GA seat.
(Demetriou justly boasted c. 10 years ago of the longstanding AFL policy to keep GA seat price rises to no more than CPI. Then the AFL introduced in 2014 the con of Dynamic Pricing -big price increases. WA & SA pay too much especially). Stadium facilities now are far superior to previous eras -some justification for ticket prices.

Could AO add further 25,000 standing room only ($12-15 entry?) triple tiered sections where the scoreboard area etc. is -& this area should serve full strength beer? Bring total capacity to c.75,000. (This standing room cauldron would be Adelaide's Point of Difference, cf. the other "vanilla" stadia around Aust. -& attract many more interstate tourists for the ol'time football experience).
Can the trees be dug up, & relocated elsewhere in the parklands? Scoreboard placed on roof of the new standing room Stand?

Pro rata (Hobart had a pop. c.170,000) the TFL 1979 GF official crowd of 24,963 will never be beaten by any other Aust. city, for any sporting contest. This crowd was 14.6% of Hobart pop. -our biggest footyheads.
(I am not including historic Melb. Cup. crowds. In the early days, it was primarily a social occasion - most patrons would have been unable to clearly see most of the race, as racecourse mainly flat).

In 1886, the crowd for the Sth Melb. v. Geelong game at the Lake Oval was unofficially estimated at c.34,000. There were c. 28,000 official paying customers (World record for any code then). The unofficial estimate was c.34,000 - because the impatient crowd had demolished the timber paling fence with tools, invaded the ground, & the few police were unable to stop them. The Melb. pop. then was c.400,000.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The AFL purchased Docklands (Etihad) stadium for a speculated figure around 200 million last year.
Naturally tenant clubs have been expecting better stadium agreements now that is an AFL owned venue.

However the benefits of the new proposed agreements appear to be less than tenant clubs have hoped for.
According to a recent article:
Essendon to push for extra MCG game
by Caroline Wilson in the The Age (09/08/2017).
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-to-push-for-extra-mcg-game-20170809-gxsw7f.html
'clubs have told Fairfax Media that the AFL's initial financial forecasts to the tenant clubs for 2018 were in some cases barely 10 per cent ahead of previous returns.'
'The AFL has told the clubs it wants to pay off a significant proportion of the Etihad debt by the end of the current six-year broadcast rights deal, fearing the next media deal will fall in value.'
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-to-push-for-extra-mcg-game-20170809-gxsw7f.html

To spend so much money to buy Docklands Stadium and for tenant clubs to only receive deals that are 10 percent better financially than what they previously received so the AFL can pay off the debt incurred to buy the stadium seems to defeat the purpose of buying the stadium in the first place.

The AFL were foolish IMO - from a tenant club pov - to pay $200m and have to service that with debt rather than wait a few years and each year would have been $25m less to purchase it which would have only been $30 on 31/12/25.

They have to find around $12 mil cash to pay the interest and depending on length of loan maybe $20m of capital repayments each and every year. Where does that money come from?? Tenant clubs.