ESKIE
Keeping it Cool.
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I was thinking more Canberra
Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread
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I was thinking more Canberra
- Feb 11, 2015
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I wouldn't so much call them limits, because nothing stops one from saying anything extreme.
It's more-so the consequences that come from it. The more outlandish and controversial the comment is, the more severe the consequences become.
Australia does not have Freedom of Speech in its constitution.
Never has.
Never has.
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It is a human rights issue. It is not an ordinary political issue.
The only reason it has become political or been politicised is because of the cunning, shifty behaviour of a cabal of right wingers in the federal government led by the egregious Tiny Tony Abbott.
Ours is the only club to have made a neutral statement and to have invited controversy.
Other clubs have either been silent or, like the AFL and many other flagship organisations in the country,have made statements in favour of the human rights of ssm people.
The Club is getting the criticism it deserves.
I repeat: It is a human rights issue.
LanceRomance
Brownlow Medallist
Freedom of speech should not have limits. Unless of course it involves lies and slander.
The premise of much of this thread's debate is that the 'yes' vote is correct, and that the 'no' vote is only for villains.
There's no doubt that there are plenty of people reading these pages who have, or will, vote 'no', and I'd suggest that the majority won't state their opinion due to the fear of vilification and ridicule. That so many, including myself, have felt the need to declare my 'yes' intention is partly due to ensuring that I'm not seen as a right wing homophobe.
And this is the problem facing the club in their declarations.
It could be argued that there is no 'right' answer in the marriage equality debate, as marriage is originally a pagan institution (reminding me of the Groucho Marx quote: "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?"). As such, would the club be commended in this thread for taking a stance on the issue if they endorsed a 'no' vote by those condemning them for alleged 'fence sitting'?
The answer is obvious, but in the same context, the substantial minority (at this stage) who are voting 'no' would be as equally outraged if the club openly recommended a 'yes' vote.
We are talking about the 'opinion' of a football club, which represents various interests, some of which have opinions the opposite of our own. While the club does have a societal standing, its reason for being is to field a football team and be supportive of the local community, and that community includes people who will vote 'yes', 'no', or not at all.
There's no doubt that there are plenty of people reading these pages who have, or will, vote 'no', and I'd suggest that the majority won't state their opinion due to the fear of vilification and ridicule. That so many, including myself, have felt the need to declare my 'yes' intention is partly due to ensuring that I'm not seen as a right wing homophobe.
And this is the problem facing the club in their declarations.
It could be argued that there is no 'right' answer in the marriage equality debate, as marriage is originally a pagan institution (reminding me of the Groucho Marx quote: "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?"). As such, would the club be commended in this thread for taking a stance on the issue if they endorsed a 'no' vote by those condemning them for alleged 'fence sitting'?
The answer is obvious, but in the same context, the substantial minority (at this stage) who are voting 'no' would be as equally outraged if the club openly recommended a 'yes' vote.
We are talking about the 'opinion' of a football club, which represents various interests, some of which have opinions the opposite of our own. While the club does have a societal standing, its reason for being is to field a football team and be supportive of the local community, and that community includes people who will vote 'yes', 'no', or not at all.
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Well be irrational and vote No then.
If a dummy spit on a fundamental human rights issue is your preferred way of dealing with the issue then spit your dummy.
God some ppl are precious
A Yes vote is a vote for equality, so I'm all for it.
The impression I get reading through this is that some consider their Yes vote more important than others Yes vote.
Enough from me.
The impression I get reading through this is that some consider their Yes vote more important than others Yes vote.
Enough from me.
Beast__Mode
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On a personal level, as someone who will be voting yes - I would have been comfortable with a more definitive statement.
Clearly they could have done a better job of articulating a club position without creating the impression of passing judgement on those not sharing that position. The statement reads like something in a Yes Minister script.
Their intent is clear - they support SSM. They were just horribly clumsy and hamfisted in avoiding a perception of lecturing.
It was not their finest moment, clearly. Beyond the immediate, focused backlash on this issue, the shame of it is the potential impact on all the progress they have been delivering via real action in societal issues - particularly the last 24 months.
The volume of toys hurtling out of cots over this is ridiculous. Cancelling memberships??
Clearly they could have done a better job of articulating a club position without creating the impression of passing judgement on those not sharing that position. The statement reads like something in a Yes Minister script.
Their intent is clear - they support SSM. They were just horribly clumsy and hamfisted in avoiding a perception of lecturing.
It was not their finest moment, clearly. Beyond the immediate, focused backlash on this issue, the shame of it is the potential impact on all the progress they have been delivering via real action in societal issues - particularly the last 24 months.
The volume of toys hurtling out of cots over this is ridiculous. Cancelling memberships??
- Feb 5, 2016
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You are entitled to your opinion. I just don't like it when people put other people down because they have a different view to them. No disrespect
What a well considered, unbiased and indisputable opinion Wookie! Thank-you for sharing.
also in the yes camp - but my problem with the statement is that it is so ham-fisted. as i've mentioned, the negative language of 'as such don't intend to campaign on this issue' is a recipe for disaster. from a purely PR perspective, our effort to gently remind people that it's their personal choice was clumsy and i'm not surprised there has been the reaction we have seen.
Yep, exactly.
So why is a footy club commenting? Even better, why are people looking towards a football club to validate their views or otherwise?
fnm_just a man
Cancelled
If for no other reason than to encourage engagement and discussion. We should encourage engagement by all and never shy away from it.
One of the disappointing aspects of Australians as an electorate is a lack of engagement which seems to stem from a feeling of hopelessness. The result is that power is skewed in favour of the wealthy and well-connected. A vicious cycle.
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Engagement is great, and I'd be inclined to agree about a lack of it in politics here in general. The issue with some seems not to be about the club's engagement, but what side they take. That's the problem.
Forgive me MLG, for I have sinned. It has been too long since my last merchandise purchase...
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Hawthorn have put out a very similar statement to ours a day before us if I read correctly.
No, it didn't. That's the point. Rightly or wrongly the club went out of its way NOT to support same sex marriage.
You are entitled to your opinion. I just don't like it when people put other people down because they have a different view to them. No disrespect
What if the different view is that people with a different colour skin shouldn't have the same rights as white people? Should we respect those views?
Well, it states unequivocally that the CFC supports equality. Given that's the primary promotion point of the subject matter, I thought it was pretty clear what they're saying.
ESKIE
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- #1,374
No, you should most definitely not respect those views!
You should, however, respect another's right to say them, if only so you can condemn the words that are spoken. Discrimination left unspoken is far more insidious than when given air, and far harder to prevent or change.
Playing the 'personal choice' just doesn't sit well, when the other choice is a rejection of equality.
Word a statement that's unequivocal in the club's position for it, that's it. Don't tip toe around this vote being a choice. If that angers some people, to the point where they reject the Carlton Football Club, then I'm not sure those are the fans we want to attract in the first place.
Word a statement that's unequivocal in the club's position for it, that's it. Don't tip toe around this vote being a choice. If that angers some people, to the point where they reject the Carlton Football Club, then I'm not sure those are the fans we want to attract in the first place.
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