Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread

Discussion in 'Carlton' started by The Old Dark Navy's, Aug 19, 2014.

Put it out there
  1. ShanDog

    ShanDog Brownlow Medallist

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    If that's the case, I think you're giving the club's statement far too much value. The club's statement, whether for or against SSM, won't be changing minds at all. Treating it as if it would is overestimating their influence and underestimating the stubbornness of people. It's one reason organisations should just stay out of political matters. All this is an aside anyway. I took issue with your overreacting.

    The club just told the world it supports equality and SSM, as they should. They just didn't tell everyone else what to do about it, as they should. It really is that simple unless you have an agenda.
     
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  2. Gethelred

    Gethelred Club Legend

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    By the same token, you also cannot change another's mind by attacking them, not their illogical point of view.

    I posted an article by Caroline Wilson above, in which she states that there was not unanimity in the board on this, so it would've been blatantly untrue for the club to state collectively how they feel, and further than that for a business made up of hundreds of people to agree on something other than 'yay, business!' is expecting a bit much.
     
  3. ESKIE

    ESKIE Keeping it Cool.

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    I was thinking more Canberra
     
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  4. NavyBlueTJ35

    NavyBlueTJ35 Premiership Player

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    I wouldn't so much call them limits, because nothing stops one from saying anything extreme.

    It's more-so the consequences that come from it. The more outlandish and controversial the comment is, the more severe the consequences become.
     
  5. Stig O'Hara

    Stig O'Hara Hall of Famer

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    Australia does not have Freedom of Speech in its constitution.

    Never has.
     
  6. Nostalgia

    Nostalgia Suspended

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    It is a human rights issue. It is not an ordinary political issue.
    The only reason it has become political or been politicised is because of the cunning, shifty behaviour of a cabal of right wingers in the federal government led by the egregious Tiny Tony Abbott.
    Ours is the only club to have made a neutral statement and to have invited controversy.
    Other clubs have either been silent or, like the AFL and many other flagship organisations in the country,have made statements in favour of the human rights of ssm people.
    The Club is getting the criticism it deserves.
    I repeat: It is a human rights issue.
     
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  7. LanceRomance

    LanceRomance Brownlow Medallist

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    Freedom of speech should not have limits. Unless of course it involves lies and slander.
     
  8. Kismet

    Kismet Premium Platinum

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    The premise of much of this thread's debate is that the 'yes' vote is correct, and that the 'no' vote is only for villains.

    There's no doubt that there are plenty of people reading these pages who have, or will, vote 'no', and I'd suggest that the majority won't state their opinion due to the fear of vilification and ridicule. That so many, including myself, have felt the need to declare my 'yes' intention is partly due to ensuring that I'm not seen as a right wing homophobe.

    And this is the problem facing the club in their declarations.

    It could be argued that there is no 'right' answer in the marriage equality debate, as marriage is originally a pagan institution (reminding me of the Groucho Marx quote: "Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?"). As such, would the club be commended in this thread for taking a stance on the issue if they endorsed a 'no' vote by those condemning them for alleged 'fence sitting'?

    The answer is obvious, but in the same context, the substantial minority (at this stage) who are voting 'no' would be as equally outraged if the club openly recommended a 'yes' vote.

    We are talking about the 'opinion' of a football club, which represents various interests, some of which have opinions the opposite of our own. While the club does have a societal standing, its reason for being is to field a football team and be supportive of the local community, and that community includes people who will vote 'yes', 'no', or not at all.
     
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  9. Nostalgia

    Nostalgia Suspended

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    Well be irrational and vote No then.
    If a dummy spit on a fundamental human rights issue is your preferred way of dealing with the issue then spit your dummy.
    God some ppl are precious
     
  10. Stig O'Hara

    Stig O'Hara Hall of Famer

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    A Yes vote is a vote for equality, so I'm all for it.

    The impression I get reading through this is that some consider their Yes vote more important than others Yes vote.

    Enough from me.
     
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  11. Beast__Mode

    Beast__Mode Debutant

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    On a personal level, as someone who will be voting yes - I would have been comfortable with a more definitive statement.

    Clearly they could have done a better job of articulating a club position without creating the impression of passing judgement on those not sharing that position. The statement reads like something in a Yes Minister script.

    Their intent is clear - they support SSM. They were just horribly clumsy and hamfisted in avoiding a perception of lecturing.

    It was not their finest moment, clearly. Beyond the immediate, focused backlash on this issue, the shame of it is the potential impact on all the progress they have been delivering via real action in societal issues - particularly the last 24 months.

    The volume of toys hurtling out of cots over this is ridiculous. Cancelling memberships??
     
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  12. TheKing101

    TheKing101 Senior List

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    You are entitled to your opinion. I just don't like it when people put other people down because they have a different view to them. No disrespect :)
     
  13. BlueTongue

    BlueTongue Club Legend

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    What a well considered, unbiased and indisputable opinion Wookie! Thank-you for sharing.
     
  14. dumb

    dumb i shit blue

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    also in the yes camp - but my problem with the statement is that it is so ham-fisted. as i've mentioned, the negative language of 'as such don't intend to campaign on this issue' is a recipe for disaster. from a purely PR perspective, our effort to gently remind people that it's their personal choice was clumsy and i'm not surprised there has been the reaction we have seen.
     
  15. ShanDog

    ShanDog Brownlow Medallist

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    Yep, exactly.

    So why is a footy club commenting? Even better, why are people looking towards a football club to validate their views or otherwise?
     
  16. HARKER

    HARKER Hall of Famer

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    The Church of Carlton.
    Praise the Board.
     
  17. fnm_just a man

    fnm_just a man Club Legend

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    If for no other reason than to encourage engagement and discussion. We should encourage engagement by all and never shy away from it.

    One of the disappointing aspects of Australians as an electorate is a lack of engagement which seems to stem from a feeling of hopelessness. The result is that power is skewed in favour of the wealthy and well-connected. A vicious cycle.




    On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
     
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  18. ShanDog

    ShanDog Brownlow Medallist

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    Engagement is great, and I'd be inclined to agree about a lack of it in politics here in general. The issue with some seems not to be about the club's engagement, but what side they take. That's the problem.
     
  19. ShanDog

    ShanDog Brownlow Medallist

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    Forgive me MLG, for I have sinned. It has been too long since my last merchandise purchase...
     
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  20. Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods

    Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods Norm Smith Medallist

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    Our Lord and savior JC (Judd, Chris)
     
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  21. Blue Pulse

    Blue Pulse Club Legend

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    Hawthorn have put out a very similar statement to ours a day before us if I read correctly.
     
  22. Canyouhearthedrums

    Canyouhearthedrums Premiership Player

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    No, it didn't. That's the point. Rightly or wrongly the club went out of its way NOT to support same sex marriage.
     
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  23. Canyouhearthedrums

    Canyouhearthedrums Premiership Player

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    What if the different view is that people with a different colour skin shouldn't have the same rights as white people? Should we respect those views?
     
  24. ShanDog

    ShanDog Brownlow Medallist

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    Well, it states unequivocally that the CFC supports equality. Given that's the primary promotion point of the subject matter, I thought it was pretty clear what they're saying.
     
  25. ESKIE

    ESKIE Keeping it Cool.

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    No,it doesn't Shan it does not state it supports marriage equality
    Dances around it
     
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