Unpopular Basketball Opinions

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didaksrightfoot said:
Yeah I'm trying to stay out of this argument because most people have already made up their minds - but I can't let this comment slide:

LeBrons rings are huge achievements.
His finals appearances are not.
Other than a short period of the Celtics, Lebron has not faced a single other great team in the East.
Jordan had to get through the Celtics and Pistons before even making the finals, and then had teams like the Knicks and Pacers - both of whom would likely have had repeat Finals appearances in any other era. (IMO).
A couple of years ago I posted a thread of the records of the teams that LeBron has placed in the playoffs, and it was telling how weak his playoff opposition has always been compared to the likes of the Kobe, Timmy, Dirk and KD.

^Now thats only pre-Finals.
His 3 rings is a great achievement - and likely there is more to come.
His 5 finals losses is disappointing - but should not play any role in his Legacy (either good or bad) because in a number of those season he clearly wasnt on the 2nd best team.
---

Now thats all I have to say on this topic - an argument that happens at least once or twice a season.
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Sorry but the bolded is just so frustratingly stupid. When someone can just rollick through a conference 8 times, a lot of which with pissy support you give it plenty of consideration. When the number tips past a certain point it becomes compelling in an argument. For example, let's say he finishes with 10 (freaking hell) finals appearances. Sure, if he's in the West maybe he doesn't get there so often, but how many do you credibly wipe off? That an entire conference, strong or not can't stop a single guy is mind blowing, and ignoring it is silly. As it stand he's on 8... so let's say he gets to 4 (reckless speculation) instead... according to you he'll win those four because the east is s**t so his legacy would be improved?!

And the final bolded is really just speculation. You'll never know it so f*** off the word "clearly".
 
Zgope1 said:
Sorry but the bolded is just so frustratingly stupid. When someone can just rollick through a conference 8 times, a lot of which with pissy support you give it plenty of consideration. When the number tips past a certain point it becomes compelling in an argument. For example, let's say he finishes with 10 (freaking hell) finals appearances. Sure, if he's in the West maybe he doesn't get there so often, but how many do you credibly wipe off? That an entire conference, strong or not can't stop a single guy is mind blowing, and ignoring it is silly. As it stand he's on 8... so let's say he gets to 4 (reckless speculation) instead... according to you he'll win those four because the east is s**t so his legacy would be improved?!

And the final bolded is really just speculation. You'll never know it so f*** off the word "clearly".
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But LeBron isnt doing it on his own. He created two super teams in a hugely weak conference. The Heat and Cavs have never had any competition at all. Do you believe if Clevaland were in the West, he would have made the Finals every year like has been? Well considering he has lost a lot of those Finals matchups against Dallas, San Antonio and Golden State then no he wouldnt be making the finals.
 

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fidstar said:
wtf has this got to do with what we are talking about? Nothing.

fwiw I have often been critical of LeBron in the past about him cruising on defense. Particularly in the regular season.

I'd still happily have him defend anyone in the league on a final one off play for all the money though.
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Well were talking LeBron v Jordan. You're saying LeBron is better at 33. I disagree cos he doesnt go both ways.
 
fidstar said:
Just taking a bit out of your long quote.

You know this actually argues against Utah and in favor of the Warriors. The Warriors were able to put more talent together because of the change in salary cap and superstars willing to play with each other.


No one has said the teams were bad. They just are no where near the Warriors.


See this is where you show your bias.

LeBron at age 19-22 was better than MJ. LeBron was leading his team to the Finals, when MJ had a post season record of 1-6. That's games won btw. Not series. s**t, his team wasn't even a 500 team.


Good point. LeBron is the best player in the league.
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Yeah that's what im saying. It's easier now to put super teams together. He was arguing that the Warriors were miles better than the Jazz and I said yeah because it's easier to put together super teams. But I was arguing that it was relative.

The Jazz had one of the best teams in the league back then, playing the style of basketball that it was back in the 90's. Now the style is different and the Warriors play that different style the best and are one of the best teams in the league. So it's very samey.

Also when ppl say Jordan never had to beat a team as good as the Warriors, Jordan never had as much help as LeBron gets. I mean look at LeBron's teammates. Thomas, Love, Rose, JR Smith, Shump, Thompson, Korver, Wade. LeBron puts super teams around him.

It's all relative to each teams era.
 
jod23 said:
But LeBron isnt doing it on his own. He created two super teams in a hugely weak conference. The Heat and Cavs have never had any competition at all. Do you believe if Clevaland were in the West, he would have made the Finals every year like has been? Well considering he has lost a lot of those Finals matchups against Dallas, San Antonio and Golden State then no he wouldnt be making the finals.
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I never said LBJ was doing it on his own, but 2007 he had f*** all support, the Heat post Wade injury early 2013 didn't give much support, there's no doubting he was head and shoulders above the rest of his team, 2015 he took Delly to the finals and took two games off GSW, 2016 he beat the best reg season team ever when the Cavs' third best player was a shadow who could hardly play. That's 5 of the 8 with somewhat pissy support. And he's absolutely poleaxed the east and personally been great in every finals bar 2011.

To say you have taken liberties is an understatement. And just imagine if he hadn't wasted all these years in Cleveland. Like I said he pretty much donated them a chip.

And once again, what you've speculated about his maybe performances if he was in the west by listing two teams he's beaten as well as lost to is just intellectually flawed to the core. Besides the guesswork it overlooks that that scenario would improve his finals record.
 
jod23 said:
Yeah that's what im saying. It's easier now to put super teams together. He was arguing that the Warriors were miles better than the Jazz and I said yeah because it's easier to put together super teams. But I was arguing that it was relative.

The Jazz had one of the best teams in the league back then, playing the style of basketball that it was back in the 90's. Now the style is different and the Warriors play that different style the best and are one of the best teams in the league. So it's very samey.

Also when ppl say Jordan never had to beat a team as good as the Warriors, Jordan never had as much help as LeBron gets. I mean look at LeBron's teammates. Thomas, Love, Rose, JR Smith, Shump, Thompson, Korver, Wade. LeBron puts super teams around him.

It's all relative to each teams era.
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*listing players names automatically makes them HOF quality support* not a man/woman for detail and nuance are ya
 
jod23 said:
Yeah that's what im saying. It's easier now to put super teams together. He was arguing that the Warriors were miles better than the Jazz and I said yeah because it's easier to put together super teams. But I was arguing that it was relative.

The Jazz had one of the best teams in the league back then, playing the style of basketball that it was back in the 90's. Now the style is different and the Warriors play that different style the best and are one of the best teams in the league. So it's very samey.

Also when ppl say Jordan never had to beat a team as good as the Warriors, Jordan never had as much help as LeBron gets. I mean look at LeBron's teammates. Thomas, Love, Rose, JR Smith, Shump, Thompson, Korver, Wade. LeBron puts super teams around him.

It's all relative to each teams era.
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Holy s**t. Did you just claim that Lebron’s had Thomas around him? Bloke hasn’t played a game all season. Rose? Please. He’s a shell. Love, he’s ok. Because his white I’ll compare him to Longley. The rest don’t stand over Pippen/Rodman/Grant/Kukoc by any stretch. And he had the all-time GOAT coach. Who did Lebron have? Spoelstra and Lue. Lolllllllll


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Zgope1 said:
Sorry but the bolded is just so frustratingly stupid. When someone can just rollick through a conference 8 times, a lot of which with pissy support you give it plenty of consideration. When the number tips past a certain point it becomes compelling in an argument. For example, let's say he finishes with 10 (freaking hell) finals appearances. Sure, if he's in the West maybe he doesn't get there so often, but how many do you credibly wipe off? That an entire conference, strong or not can't stop a single guy is mind blowing, and ignoring it is silly. As it stand he's on 8... so let's say he gets to 4 (reckless speculation) instead... according to you he'll win those four because the east is s**t so his legacy would be improved?!

And the final bolded is really just speculation. You'll never know it so f*** off the word "clearly".
Click to expand...

I think you missed the entire point of my post:

In how many of those 5 Finals losses were Lebrons team the 2nd best in the playoffs? (ie. If Playoff seeding didn't use Conferences - would he have still made the finals?)
I would say in 2007 (clearly), 2011 (possibly), 2013 (possibly), and 2015 (clearly) his team would not have made the Finals if they removed Conferences.

IMO, given strength of opposition, making the Finals out of the East throughout Lebrons career, is pretty much the equivalent of making the Western Conference Finals.
---

Again - this is not to take anything away from his legacy.
Just stop using his total number of Finals appearances as some great achievement - because it is a very biased statistic.
 
jod23 said:
How old are you? You clearly didnt watch much basketball in the 90s. Karl Malone is one of the 50 greatest players of all time and if not for Tim Duncan is probably the greatest PF of all time. Taking Durant or Curry over him is a huge call.
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It’s not really a huge call at all. If it wasn’t for LeBron, Durant would be spoken about as the best player of his generation. Malone was never that good. Likewise Curry is in a similar boat.
jod23 said:
Stockton is one of the greatest PG's of all time. So he was never a top 5 talent but he's often spoken about as probably the 2nd or 3rd greatest PG of all time? Erm ok...
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He’s spoken of as the 2nd or 3rd best because of consistency. He never finished top 5 in an MVP race.

His numbers are not ones of a top 5 player either.
jod23 said:
The NBA is VASTLY different today than it was back then. All the differences in salary cap, the contracts of players, the rules and regulations. But the biggest difference is the softening of the players. Jordan didnt want Barkley to join him or to team up with Magic. Jordan wanted to play them and beat them.
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Jordan was also on a team that drafted Scottie Pippen and provided him with plenty of talent.

Players today aren’t soft. They just don’t want to be the next Barkley or Malone, ending their careers ringless.
jod23 said:
Durant is a punk for joining the Warriors. LeBron is soft for running to put together a super team with Bosh and Wade. LeBron should be wanting to beat Wade and Bost. Durant should want to come back the next season and beat Curry and Klay. George, Melo and Westbrook have teamed up. Chris Paul ran off to join Harden cos the Clippers couldnt get it done. The NBA is soft and every player is trying to just team up with anyone they can to try to win a championship. How about try to beat the best players in the game, not join up with them and run the table. It's soft.
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See this just sounds like a nostalgic 90s fan. LeBron toiled away for years on shitty Cavs teams only to come up short. The Cavs were never bringing him a Scottie Pippen. The best they could get him was Mo Williams and has beens in Shaq and Jamison. People have been teaming up for years. Barkley did it, Drexler did it and so on. Only difference was that LeBron didn’t want to waste his best years playing with s**t.
jod23 said:
Jordan faced plenty of great teams. A loaded Lakers team with Magic, a loaded Trailblazers team and a really good Phoenix team. Utah were made to win championships. Even Seattle were underrated and they were probably the weakest of Jordan's foes in the Finals.
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Gee you love your exaggerations. Every team from the 90s is loaded according to you. Funny how the same never applies for modern teams.
jod23 said:
As for all-time teams, that's why Jordan is the GOAT. His team was the all-time team. Because he was in it. Why isnt LeBrons team the all-time team?
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Oh so this logic applies to Steph Curry then?

LeBron’s team isn’t the all time team because his teams have constantly changed and had problems. You constantly ignore this. In Miami Wade declined far quicker than expected. In Cleveland he has run into a team that is top 3 all time. He almost beat them with Delly as his second best player. He beat them the next year after they went 73-9 and then his team this year simply didn’t stand a chance. You’ll ignore this though like usual. Beating that Warriors team is damn impressive. It would be like Jordan beating the 86 Celtics.
jod23 said:
The Thunder were extremely young and nowhere near ready to win a championship. The Jazz were a veteran and battle hardened team made to win chips. They just ran into Jordan.
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I’m sure if they played in the 90s you’d be telling us how loaded they were.

jod23 said:
Already mentioned it. Key Game 4 and he deferred. Then got the ball stripped off him. He hid.
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Cool. One moment in a series his team didn’t stand a chance in. I’m not convinced Jordan’s Bulls would beat 2016-17 Warriors.

jod23 said:
LeBrons team beat the same SAS team the previous year. Then you blame his teammates. LeBron always has an excuse. That's the difference between the two. LeBron has excuses, Jordan doesnt because he never needed them. He just won.
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LeBron was great in that series. The rest of his team wasn’t. This isn’t tennis. You need multiple players to win a title. Jordan sure as hell didn’t win on his own. Having teammates play s**t is magnified even more when you’re playing against an all time great coach and team.
jod23 said:
And plenty of people argue that LeBron is better so I always like to remind everyone that he really isnt.

As for being better at 33. LeBron is having a career year, right in the MVP race. I dont think LeBron has ever been better than Jordan at any age. Stats wise LeBron is having a better year that Jordan did at 33 but that doesnt mean he is a better player.

Look at Westbrook last season, his stats were nuts, averaged a triple double. But did anyone ever think he was the best player in the league? Sure he even won the MVP. But if you ask any bball follower, you are still taking LeBron, KD, Kawhi, Curry before Westbrook.
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Funny how you pick and choose when stats matter to you.

Westbrook’s stats didn’t make him the best because he’s a flawed player and he was far from efficient.

LeBron’s simply outplaying Jordan at the same age. LeBron could average 50 a game and you’d say how 33 year old MJ was still better.
 

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didaksrightfoot said:
I think you missed the entire point of my post:

In how many of those 5 Finals losses were Lebrons team the 2nd best in the playoffs? (ie. If Playoff seeding didn't use Conferences - would he have still made the finals?)
I would say in 2007 (clearly), 2011 (possibly), 2013 (possibly), and 2015 (clearly) his team would not have made the Finals if they removed Conferences.

IMO, given strength of opposition, making the Finals out of the East throughout Lebrons career, is pretty much the equivalent of making the Western Conference Finals.
---

Again - this is not to take anything away from his legacy.
Just stop using his total number of Finals appearances as some great achievement - because it is a very biased statistic.
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What an utterly speculative, hopeful position to have. If his aunty had a johnson she'd be his uncle. You can't use seeding in such an argument when he knows that seeding doesn't matter because he can roll through his conference. Speaking of missing points, let me repeat- when a number gets so high it becomes compelling in an argument. 8+ finals means something.
 
I don’t think the consecutive finals appearances is out of this world amazing or anything but it’s still damn impressive.

That’s a hell of a lot of minutes for LeBron to play and he really hasn’t slipped up since 2011. His play in each finals series since has been fantastic.
 
1kff1y.jpg


(Non Basketball related opinion)
This is probably the funniest thing of all time
 
Adelaide Hawk said:
Her voice is like fingernails on a chalk board, and I hate the way she talks over the top of everyone. I'm with you, both annoying and boring.
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I just dont get the obsession with her in America.

Its like every time I look at bleacher, they are linking to her giving some completely obvious take on something like 'hey, here is rachel nichols talking like a patronizing moron for 5 minutes about why Lebron is good'.

There are other shows over there where you are like 'these guys should calm down' (ie Stephen A Smith), but she takes it to a whole other level of obnoxiousness.

The annoying thing is that she actually has good guests on the show, but I cant watch it for than about 30 seconds because she just doesnt shut up.
 
tombomb said:
I just dont get the obsession with her in America.

Its like every time I look at bleacher, they are linking to her giving some completely obvious take on something like 'hey, here is rachel nichols talking like a patronizing moron for 5 minutes about why Lebron is good'.

There are other shows over there where you are like 'these guys should calm down' (ie Stephen A Smith), but she takes it to a whole other level of obnoxiousness.

The annoying thing is that she actually has good guests on the show, but I cant watch it for than about 30 seconds because she just doesnt shut up.
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Agreed, and don't get me started on Stephen A Smith .... we all know what the "A" stands for. Total dickhead.
 
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