No non-Vic team has defeated a Vic team in the Grand Final without list or salary cap concessions

[parmy2balmey]

1967 still burns as much as 2017

 

[amer]

Our Port Adelaide brothers and sisters deserve a fairer go too.

If we don't win the flag, I want it to be them. Failing that, our cousins in WA, QLD or NSW. We are all marginalised. We all deserve better.

 

[35Daicos]

Our Port Adelaide brothers and sisters deserve a fairer go too.

If we don't win the flag, I want it to be them. Failing that, our cousins in WA, QLD or NSW. We are all marginalised. We all deserve better.

Could you make up your mind?!! You started this thread with the claim that pretty much any time a non-Victorian team has won a Premiership it was practically handed to them by the AFL. So that's quite a lot of flags they've been given that they wouldn't have won without being given special treatment, at least according to you. As for your "cousins" in QLD and NSW, spare me! We all know they've been given plenty of assistance over the years, and won a few Premierships thanks to it.

So you really do need to make up your mind! Because saying "We all deserve better" just doesn't go with "The AFL has handed a heap of flags to the non-Victorian teams"!

 

[Catters 070911]

Two pretty poor examples there.
The round four game you mentioned the ground was just over half full from memory. And the night before a public holiday, they were hoping to attract more than a regular Saturday afternoon game. Not sure why you struggled to get in?

As for Lounder and Banik, they were back in the dark ages of drafting. Geelongs drafting in the early rounds was just as horrible back then.

Still remember Geelongs drought breaking flag which wiped away 40 odd years of ridicule for choking at the final hurdle. Would have thought Geelong fans that had been there through not only their success but the tough times would be able to see through that for Richmond right now.

Our drafting in the early rounds wasn't as bad because we rarely, if ever got early draft picks. The earliest draft picks Geelong have got in the last 20 years are Pick 7 (Joel Selwood), and two Pick 8s (Jimmy Bartel and Andrew Mackie). So we hadn't done too bad there.

I do like to see teams who have had long droughts win. I would have loved to see St. Kilda have won it in 2010 and was happy the Bulldogs won it in 2016. I would have been happy for Richmond, if their supporters didn't call up on "Hungry For Sport" and brag about how they were going to win the flag, how they were sure things, and how easy it was to beat the other teams (the way Richmond talkback callers spoke about Geelong both before and after that Qualifying Final was a disgrace). If Richmond fans had shown humility, and had a "wait and see" attitude, being excited but cautiously optimistic, rather than carrying on like dicks (such as a talkback caller called "Mario From Doncaster"), then I might have gone for you in the GF, and been happy that you won.

Also, I got sick of the jerking off that the media did over Richmond. Come on, 20 pages on Richmond in the H-S one day, 25 pages the next. It was over-saturation levels, and I don't remember that for other teams (The Bulldogs only got that Grand Final week, but not for the whole final series). The media gave you guys heaps of coverage, more than any other premiership team has ever gotten.

Also, I didn't like the whinging that your supporters did towards playing at Symons Stadium, instead of the MCG. It was OUR home game in Rd 21, and we also should have played there in the final, because we finished higher than you. What can't you get about that? If Richmond were the home team in the H&A season, I wouldn't complain about playing at the G, as it is your home game. And if you finish top two next year, and play us first week, then I have no problem playing you at the 'G. Why? Because you would have "earned" it. Instead, Richmond supporters didn't leave the 'G for the whole finals series, because they moaned and complained about having to play a final against us, and weak Gil caved and put money ahead of what is right.

I hope your gameplan gets figured last year, and you miss finals. Maybe that might deflate some of your supporters' heads.

 

[Catters 070911]

1967 still burns as much as 2017

Gary Ablett snr kicking 10, 12 and 14 goals against you must still burn as well.

 

[35Daicos]

Our drafting in the early rounds wasn't as bad because we rarely, if ever got early draft picks. The earliest draft picks Geelong have got in the last 20 years are Pick 7 (Joel Selwood), and two Pick 8s (Jimmy Bartel and Andrew Mackie). So we hadn't done too bad there.

Sorry for butting into someone else's argument but the Richmond supporter you quoted was clearly only talking about the early days of the draft there! It really was an amateurish affair back in those days (when they picked Lounder and Banik at #1 and Geelong took Stephen Hooper who flopped as well), and rubbishing anyone for poor drafting back then is hardly fair, since much of the drafting done was rubbish! Things certainly improved from the early 90's onwards when metropolitan zones for Vic. teams and the U19's were scrapped.

This site is really worth checking out for any that aren't familiar with it:- https://www.draftguru.com.au/

You can see from the Geelong page on that site looking at the last 20 years that you have missed a couple (Corey #8 and Tenace #7, plus Mackie was #7. Cockatoo #10 being the other top-10 pick):- https://www.draftguru.com.au/clubs/geelong

 

[PenfoldsFan]

So you really do need to make up your mind! Because saying "We all deserve better" just doesn't go with "The AFL has handed a heap of flags to the non-Victorian teams"!

Agreed, we need an inquest into why the Victorian clubs have dominated ever since they held the inquest into why us interstaters we're dominating...

Then we can get on with having an inquest into why Victorian clubs are so poor in finals in SA.

 

[Rich01]

Our drafting in the early rounds wasn't as bad because we rarely, if ever got early draft picks. The earliest draft picks Geelong have got in the last 20 years are Pick 7 (Joel Selwood), and two Pick 8s (Jimmy Bartel and Andrew Mackie). So we hadn't done too bad there.

You quoted Lounder and Banik as our failures. My response was your early draft picks at that time weren’t much better.
You had plenty up the top end at that time.

And Geelong had heaps of Herald Sun coverage in 2007 when you broke your 40+ year draft. Assuming you remember this time?

Some people just have to find issues with everything.

I was happy for the Swans to break their 60+ year drought in 05, Geelong in 2007 and the Bulldogs a similar drought last year.

Not sure why there is such bitterness from some supporters on here about our flag.
I know you are hoping our game plan falls down and we don’t make the finals next year, which is really weird and a little sad.

 

[tigerwill]

Our drafting in the early rounds wasn't as bad because we rarely, if ever got early draft picks. The earliest draft picks Geelong have got in the last 20 years are Pick 7 (Joel Selwood), and two Pick 8s (Jimmy Bartel and Andrew Mackie). So we hadn't done too bad there.

Humorous. You mention Lounder, drafted 1987. Banik, drafted 1989
Then mention Geelong last 20 years of drafting. Why didn't you got back 30 years or even 28?
Perhaps you should scroll through the link below and see how Geelong did back then.
http://www.afl.com.au/draft/draft-history

 

[parmy2balmey]

Gary Ablett snr kicking 10, 12 and 14 goals against you must still burn as well.

Gaz never lifted the cup so no not really lol

 

[Rich01]

Gary Ablett snr kicking 10, 12 and 14 goals against you must still burn as well.

Not for me. Remembering those dark days from the late eighties to now make this premiership even more sweeter.

The one thing about Richmond at that time was that you always managed to see the greats in full flight against us.

Ablett and Dunstall always towelled us up.
Lockett loved us too.

Even though they were playing us, it was always amazing watching them do the incredible.

 

[Catters 070911]

Sorry for butting into someone else's argument but the Richmond supporter you quoted was clearly only talking about the early days of the draft there! It really was an amateurish affair back in those days (when they picked Lounder and Banik at #1 and Geelong took Stephen Hooper who flopped as well), and rubbishing anyone for poor drafting back then is hardly fair, since much of the drafting done was rubbish! Things certainly improved from the early 90's onwards when metropolitan zones for Vic. teams and the U19's were scrapped.

This site is really worth checking out for any that aren't familiar with it:- https://www.draftguru.com.au/

You can see from the Geelong page on that site looking at the last 20 years that you have missed a couple (Corey #8 and Tenace #7, plus Mackie was #7. Cockatoo #10 being the other top-10 pick):- https://www.draftguru.com.au/clubs/geelong

Tenace turned out not to work, but I would say that the others are a win (and I think Cockatoo, if he can get over injuries, will be a success long-term).

So of our 6 top ten picks in the last 20 years, five were worth their pick ( I would argue that Selwood actually should have been a No. 1 pick). Also, notice that we had NO top five picks, yet have made top two eight of the last ten years.

 

[Catters 070911]

Sorry for butting into someone else's argument but the Richmond supporter you quoted was clearly only talking about the early days of the draft there! It really was an amateurish affair back in those days (when they picked Lounder and Banik at #1 and Geelong took Stephen Hooper who flopped as well), and rubbishing anyone for poor drafting back then is hardly fair, since much of the drafting done was rubbish! Things certainly improved from the early 90's onwards when metropolitan zones for Vic. teams and the U19's were scrapped.

This site is really worth checking out for any that aren't familiar with it:- https://www.draftguru.com.au/

You can see from the Geelong page on that site looking at the last 20 years that you have missed a couple (Corey #8 and Tenace #7, plus Mackie was #7. Cockatoo #10 being the other top-10 pick):- https://www.draftguru.com.au/clubs/geelong

If I remember, Stephen Hooper didn't work out because he constantly got injured (which is something you can't always predict when drafting someone).

I remember a front page spread on Anthony Banik and the big wraps on him, yet it never worked out.

Also, didn't you miss out on drafting all three of the Cloke boys?

 

[35Daicos]

If I remember, Stephen Hooper didn't work out because he constantly got injured (which is something you can't always predict when drafting someone).

I remember a front page spread on Anthony Banik and the big wraps on him, yet it never worked out.

Also, didn't you miss out on drafting all three of the Cloke boys?

We did get all three of them, as father-son selections.

In the draft's early days it really was very much a "lottery" and so many poor selections were made, even with early picks. I suppose the big problem was that prior to the TAC Cup coming in (and the National Junior Championships being made into something much bigger than it was back then) there was no easy way for the recruiters to compare most of the players as they were playing in different competitions around the land.

 

[Carringbush2010]

That is damning.

West Coast and Adelaide both had solid legs up in the 90s. Brisbane were hocked up when they dominated.

Sydney had COLA in 2012 which aided in player retention.

No one has done it. No one.

The interstate sides are still relatively young in the expanded VFL competition.
But there's already mountains of evidence that home ground determines everything.

Geelong almost never loses at KP, and sides look completely different when they play there. If you go to the ground and watch a game from high up, you see just how dramatically different the dimensions are from other grounds. It's not an oval.

You're watching a different brand of footy every week depending on which ground you're at, because teams have to figure out how to work within different dimensions while their opposition already has that down. The turnaround in margin from home to away is regularly 10 or 15 goals.

Barely anyone wins in Geelong. Barely anyone wins in Adelaide. And not a single interstate team has won on the MCG on grand final day without list or salary cap concessions.

We're five years in a row now of non-vic teams "mysteriously" putting in absolute stinkers on grand final day. It is not a coincidence.

For the game to become truly national and actually fair, the grand final MUST move. We don't need a 100,000 stadium. Bigger events all over the world regularly seat 50 or 60k. It's absolute nonsense that our other stadiums couldn't put on a phenomenal grand final.

It was so ******* disappointing spending all that money to go to a grand final, to see my team struggle with wider wings while the other team has learned by playing on it way more at the elite level. To watch the umpires be swayed by the home crowd, and the teams themselves be affected by the home crowd. My team can never bridge those disadvantages. They are systemic.

I think this is going to be the single biggest conversation in the game the next several years, because it is becoming more structurally obvious with every season. Having a game where every ground is a completely different size and shape, and then having the grand final ALWAYS at one ground that half the competition plays at way more than the rest, with all the other advantages that come with playing at home, is absolutely insane.

Discuss.

What another thread on this?! Ok gonna say this once, the comp is an extended VFL. Read this then either accept it is what is and stfu or stfu and go follow something else
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/why-the-national-comp-can-never-be-national.1177974/

 

[LoungeLizard]

If I remember, Stephen Hooper didn't work out because he constantly got injured (which is something you can't always predict when drafting someone).

I remember a front page spread on Anthony Banik and the big wraps on him, yet it never worked out.

Also, didn't you miss out on drafting all three of the Cloke boys?

If i remember correctly Anthony Banik got Ross River desease, so if you want to talk about injuries being ok, then i think you could call that ok also.

 

[gavaniacono]

Our drafting in the early rounds wasn't as bad because we rarely, if ever got early draft picks. The earliest draft picks Geelong have got in the last 20 years are Pick 7 (Joel Selwood), and two Pick 8s (Jimmy Bartel and Andrew Mackie). So we hadn't done too bad there.

I do like to see teams who have had long droughts win. I would have loved to see St. Kilda have won it in 2010 and was happy the Bulldogs won it in 2016. I would have been happy for Richmond, if their supporters didn't call up on "Hungry For Sport" and brag about how they were going to win the flag, how they were sure things, and how easy it was to beat the other teams (the way Richmond talkback callers spoke about Geelong both before and after that Qualifying Final was a disgrace). If Richmond fans had shown humility, and had a "wait and see" attitude, being excited but cautiously optimistic, rather than carrying on like dicks (such as a talkback caller called "Mario From Doncaster"), then I might have gone for you in the GF, and been happy that you won.

Also, I got sick of the jerking off that the media did over Richmond. Come on, 20 pages on Richmond in the H-S one day, 25 pages the next. It was over-saturation levels, and I don't remember that for other teams (The Bulldogs only got that Grand Final week, but not for the whole final series). The media gave you guys heaps of coverage, more than any other premiership team has ever gotten.

Also, I didn't like the whinging that your supporters did towards playing at Symons Stadium, instead of the MCG. It was OUR home game in Rd 21, and we also should have played there in the final, because we finished higher than you. What can't you get about that? If Richmond were the home team in the H&A season, I wouldn't complain about playing at the G, as it is your home game. And if you finish top two next year, and play us first week, then I have no problem playing you at the 'G. Why? Because you would have "earned" it. Instead, Richmond supporters didn't leave the 'G for the whole finals series, because they moaned and complained about having to play a final against us, and weak Gil caved and put money ahead of what is right.

I hope your gameplan gets figured last year, and you miss finals. Maybe that might deflate some of your supporters' heads.

You sound like a whining biatch. RFC won flag. RFC happy. RFC supporters delirious still with joy. Unprecendented such reaction.
Some things just need to be dealt with.

Though your QF fade out was pretty poor.

 

[GiantsTragic]

We should be fine with our startup concessions then.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

What another thread on this?! Ok gonna say this once, the comp is an extended VFL. Read this then either accept it is what is and stfu or stfu and go follow something else
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/why-the-national-comp-can-never-be-national.1177974/

No arguments from me, i totally agree with your opening post in that thread, however, your honesty is lost on many of your fellow Victorians who continually trott out the crap that interstate teams just need to harden up as though the quality of teams in Victoria is so much better than the interstaters when in reality it isnt.
What is ironic is that with the current Victorian domination it seems that its ok to suuggest that the game will never be equal, however, when the interstste teams were dominating the finals scene, an inquest was suggested to work out why Victorian teams were being locked out of their extended league, it would appear as though the imbalance of equality was of great concern then and needed rectifying yet in the current climate its just a case of bad luck thats how it is.

Earlier in the thread i highlighted how poor Victorian clubs are when playing finals in SA, winning only 30% of games, some people questioned it and were quickly quietened down with the cold hard facts.

I decided to look at all finals played by Victorian clubs in the remaining states and the results are overwhelming, since the AFL's inception in 1990 Victorian clubs have played in 36 interstate finals for a total of 7 wins 29 losses, thats 19.4%.

So away from Victoria you've played in a total of 49 finals for 11 wins, thats 22%.
That should actually be 50 interstate finals for 11 wins if Brisbane had played its prelim at the Gabba in 04 as it should have been entitled to against Geelong who came through the Semi after losing its qualifying final.

You should count yourselves bloody lucky you've got 10 teams and a stranglehold on finals and the GF in Victoria, or you'd be irrelevant.

Victorian football has proven nothing until it contests and wins a GF interstate like the rest of us and thats all there is to it.

You NEED it to be an extended VFL, we just tolerate it.

 

[Catters 070911]

You sound like a whining biatch. RFC won flag. RFC happy. RFC supporters delirious still with joy. Unprecendented such reaction.
Some things just need to be dealt with.

Though your QF fade out was pretty poor.

It's your lack of respect for opposition teams which is what people have a problem with.

If Richmond fans stuck it to opposition fans by their team winning the flag, and letting that do the talking, instead of getting on talkback, acting like a flag was a certainty, even though you had just won the QF. You acted entitled.

Add to that your whining about playing Geelong at our home ground in OUR home game, even though all your supporters rang up then and said that they would easily beat us there anyway (we won that game).

Your supporters should have taken a leaf out of the Western Bulldogs' book. I didn't hear them bragging that they would clean sweep the finals in 2016, or were certs for the flag weeks out.

Maybe best not to have flogs like Trout or Mario from Doncaster come on and act like tools, or have a past great like KB monopolise the airwaves with his radio show, by making it the "Richmond hour" and only allowing fellow supporters to call up, and he eggs them on. This from Kevin Barlett, who was one of your worst coaches in the history of the club, and started the rot that lasted for 25 years, not to mention that he wasn't such a fan of the club when he went AWOL for 15 years because the club sacked him for sucking as a coach.

There are probably plenty of decent Richmond supporters, but the dickheads are the ones making themselves noticed, and making other clubs supporters want to see Richmond fail, to stick it to the dickhead supporters, rather than have the footy world celebrate a team who hadn't won a flag for 35 years achieve the ultimate success.

The ones you stick the boots into on the way up will be the same ones sticking the boots into you on the way down. Richmond fans should have remained humble and cautious optimistic. But the last 35 years gives Richmond fans no excuse to be arrogant whatsoever, and it will take more than one flag to change that.

 

[gavaniacono]

It's your lack of respect for opposition teams which is what people have a problem with.

If Richmond fans stuck it to opposition fans by their team winning the flag, and letting that do the talking, instead of getting on talkback, acting like a flag was a certainty, even though you had just won the QF. You acted entitled.

Add to that your whining about playing Geelong at our home ground in OUR home game, even though all your supporters rang up then and said that they would easily beat us there anyway (we won that game).

Your supporters should have taken a leaf out of the Western Bulldogs' book. I didn't hear them bragging that they would clean sweep the finals in 2016, or were certs for the flag weeks out.

Maybe best not to have flogs like Trout or Mario from Doncaster come on and act like tools, or have a past great like KB monopolise the airwaves with his radio show, by making it the "Richmond hour" and only allowing fellow supporters to call up, and he eggs them on. This from Kevin Barlett, who was one of your worst coaches in the history of the club, and started the rot that lasted for 25 years, not to mention that he wasn't such a fan of the club when he went AWOL for 15 years because the club sacked him for sucking as a coach.

There are probably plenty of decent Richmond supporters, but the dickheads are the ones making themselves noticed, and making other clubs supporters want to see Richmond fail, to stick it to the dickhead supporters, rather than have the footy world celebrate a team who hadn't won a flag for 35 years achieve the ultimate success.

The ones you stick the boots into on the way up will be the same ones sticking the boots into you on the way down. Richmond fans should have remained humble and cautious optimistic. But the last 35 years gives Richmond fans no excuse to be arrogant whatsoever, and it will take more than one flag to change that.

Biatch alert!

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Power Raid]

it will be an interesting topic over the coming decade or two

there does seem to be a trend being established

 

[Roovolution]

and maybe all the mocking is why so many people are offended about Richmond winning. They had us pidgeon holed as a team that could be dismissed with a '9thmond' joke, rather than having to think about the club and now that doesn't work any more rather than review their presumptions, they whinge about Richmond being lucky, or the Richmond fans they dismissed and ignored giving a small fraction of what they've copped over the years back.

BTW. IF were such fair weather supporters.....how many fans would your club have if you'd had the past 35 years we've had?

Reckon it’s because of the shocking attitude of Richmond posters in this board. It’s ridiculous how arrogant Richmond posters are. Before you won the flag you’d mouth off like you were the greatest thing ever anytime you won a few games. Nek minit....9th. Your club achieved nothing for decades and yet the arrogance would pop up in a heartbeat whenever you won. A few years ago your supporters were so cocky before heading off to an elimination final in Adelaide against Port and you were toast after about 3 minutes.

Richmond posters disappeared from this board for a while there as they must’ve been so embarrassed after being so mouthy in the lead up to the game.

It’s the attitude of Richmond posters and fans that annoys people, not the fact you won. And being cocky after being given a home Final you didn’t shows how ridiculous and arrogant your fan base is.

 

[kranky al]

Reckon it’s because of the shocking attitude of Richmond posters in this board. It’s ridiculous how arrogant Richmond posters are. Before you won the flag you’d mouth off like you were the greatest thing ever anytime you won a few games. Nek minit....9th. Your club achieved nothing for decades and yet the arrogance would pop up in a heartbeat whenever you won. A few years ago your supporters were so cocky before heading off to an elimination final in Adelaide against Port and you were toast after about 3 minutes.

Richmond posters disappeared from this board for a while there as they must’ve been so embarrassed after being so mouthy in the lead up to the game.

It’s the attitude of Richmond posters and fans that annoys people, not the fact you won. And being cocky after being given a home Final you didn’t shows how ridiculous and arrogant your fan base is.

This.


Even now in other threads your mob are blathering about how you would have beaten anyone anywhere.

The facts dont bear this out.

In the last two years you have beaten noone of note away from the mcg.

Port in adelaide is your one away scalp in two years. Go to the port board and ask them what they think of their team this year!!

Geelong would have pulled your pants down at kardinia and adelaide would gave smacked your bottoms harder than a red headed stepchild at ao.



You look at the dogs the year before and they did beat good sides away. Yet theyve come across a lot better than your mob.

Bit more class i think.

 

[parmy2balmey]

sick of all these long winded self important melts clogging up every thread on the main board, just pages and pages of froth and bile. no surprises at all it is the classless bogans from perf, corio and west lakes thieving all the bandwidth. it’s getting tiresome, just deal with Richmond’s flag and move on.