Cripps Bontempelli Merrett Kelly - the next big 4?

[Sonny Hayes]

A lot of talking down of Bontempelli’s 2017.

He was still seventh in the Brownlow (2 votes behind Kelly), his club best and fairest (second in a row), in the AA squad and just outside the AFLCA player top 10.

And you jokers call that a down year? It’s as good as anything Cripps has done.

Wouldn’t trade Charlie Curnow or Sam docherty for Bont in a heartbeat? That’s potential or a really good half back for one of the hands down best in the comp. you are kidding yourself.

Mate you can say stats and awards all you like but Bonts 2017 was no where near as good as Kelly's. Kelly and Bont were both elite at times this season, Kelly just did it on a much more regular basis.

 

[Juddernaut08]

On talent and position I'd trade Docherty for Bont. For sentimentality and fabric of club I wouldn't want to but would probably pull the trigger after a lot of thought.

Charlie obviously we wouldn't due to his significantly higher ceiling, fitness and likely consistency.

 

[footyfan1978]

On talent and position I'd trade Docherty for Bont. For sentimentality and fabric of club I wouldn't want to but would probably pull the trigger after a lot of thought.

Charlie obviously we wouldn't due to his significantly higher ceiling, fitness and likely consistency.

I'd trade them back Liam Jones for him.
Hell. I'd trade them Jones, Thomas, Rowe, Macreadie and Kerridge for him as one.
No sane list manager would trade him.

 

[ManOfClay]

Mate you can say stats and awards all you like but Bonts 2017 was no where near as good as Kelly's. Kelly and Bont were both elite at times this season, Kelly just did it on a much more regular basis.

Bont’s 2017 wasn’t as good as Merrett’s 2017 either. Kelly and Merrett had great years. Bontempelli had a very good one that is getting downplayed heavily because it didn’t meet his 2016 standard which was the best season any of these players had produced

 

[Laphroaig]

You’re starting to stray into delusional territory. What you want to be doesn’t mean what is. What you are saying is you wouldn’t trade either of those two for a 22 year old proven premiership best and fairest calibre genuine top echelon player of the comp type.

That's not quite what I said. I was actually defending Bont's year and named a few players I wouldn't trade in a heartbeat. Like without even thinking about it. I fail to see why that has got your nightie so twisted up.

Docherty will miss this whole year and as for the importance of his type that is well overstated. Good flankers come from anywhere, he’s easily replaceable. Hell, the 2016 norm smith medalist plays his position and he was a rookie pick.

Right there we have a magnificent example of self contradiction. It takes a true artist to get it done in the very next sentence.

Let’s see Curnow get to Jake Stringer level before we talk about Pavlich.

No thanks.

You wouldn’t get Bont for either straight out.

I don't recall suggesting that was possible.

 

[Juddernaut08]

That's not quite what I said. I was actually defending Bont's year and named a few players I wouldn't trade in a heartbeat. Like without even thinking about it. I fail to see why that has got your nightie so twisted up.



Right there we have a magnificent example of self contradiction. It takes a true artist to get it done in the very next sentence.



No thanks.



I don't recall suggesting that was possible.

I agree. He had a good year but just wasn't an improvement. The rest are going up while he has stagnated.

 

[freddy mercury]

On talent and position I'd trade Docherty for Bont. For sentimentality and fabric of club I wouldn't want to but would probably pull the trigger after a lot of thought.

Charlie obviously we wouldn't due to his significantly higher ceiling, fitness and likely consistency.

Running around without playing on anyone is the easiest thing to do.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Running around without playing on anyone is the easiest thing to do.

As is playing a half-back flanker role in a team where the tactics are deliberately to move the ball backwards and sideways before going forwards. Docherty could provide the exact same value to a team that wasn't Carlton but their different intent of ball movement would see him touch the ball 5 times less per match

 

[astrowizzle]

How are each of these guys tracking pre season?

 

[JayJ20]

How are each of these guys tracking pre season?

Probably all training the house down. It's off-season

 

[Milanista28]

Probably all training the house down. It's off-season

Last year both Bont and Cripps were in the modified group, I think all 4 and training unhindered which is great news.

All 5 sorry as Matty Crouch is in this convo now.

 

[Milanista28]

No thanks.

How can he get to Pavlich levels if he cant get to Stringers?

 

[citizen-erased]

Last year both Bont and Cripps were in the modified group, I think all 4 and training unhindered which is great news.

All 5 sorry as Matty Crouch is in this convo now.

Seriously hope Cripps gets a full preseason and season out of his body.

 

[adammania9]

A lot of talking down of Bontempelli’s 2017.

He was still seventh in the Brownlow (2 votes behind Kelly), his club best and fairest (second in a row), in the AA squad and just outside the AFLCA player top 10.

And you jokers call that a down year? It’s as good as anything Cripps has done.

Wouldn’t trade Charlie Curnow or Sam docherty for Bont in a heartbeat? That’s potential or a really good half back for one of the hands down best in the comp. you are kidding yourself.

Footy fans just have a weird obsession with disliking and trying to disprove the most recent "hyped" players. Dangerfield, Rioli, Stringer, Martin, Franklin, Bontempelli etc. Anyone who has actually watched Bont will recognise the importance of all his disposals. A 22 touch game from Bont is game-changing. A 30 touch a game Bontempelli would be the best player in the league.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Footy fans just have a weird obsession with disliking and trying to disprove the most recent "hyped" players. Dangerfield, Rioli, Stringer, Martin, Franklin, Bontempelli etc. Anyone who has actually watched Bont will recognise the importance of all his disposals. A 22 touch game from Bont is game-changing. A 30 touch a game Bontempelli would be the best player in the league.

It's something I've said before in this thread, and it's something that Pendlebury has suffered from in his career - it's easy to rate and talk about players who improve and have their best seasons of their careers, it's boring to talk about something consistently good. Pendlebury, comapred to the Fyfes, Abletts, Dangerfields of the last 10 years doesn't get the credit for being a good player despite being just as good as them, because he's as good now as he was in 2009-10 and more or less has been roughly as good ever year. On the other hand those other players have had peaks for a year or two where they were the best in the league and get all the attention. It's the same here: Bontempelli was roughly as good in 2017 as he was in 2016 and 2015, that is, a top-15 midfielder in the league. On the other hand it's a lot more "fun" to talk about players, like Kelly and Merrett, who improved a lot. Hence it's easy to underrate that consistency and overrate that improvement from the previous year.

 

[JayJ20]

It's something I've said before in this thread, and it's something that Pendlebury has suffered from in his career - it's easy to rate and talk about players who improve and have their best seasons of their careers, it's boring to talk about something consistently good.

TBH, Bont's 2016 season was far superior to his 2017 season. He kept missing the crucial game-changing goals that he'd get in 2016. He was also really consistent.

He's definitely the player with the highest ceiling from the 2013 group though so I expect him to reach or perhaps exceed his 2016 heights.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

TBH, Bont's 2016 season was far superior to his 2017 season. He kept missing the crucial game-changing goals that he'd get in 2016. He was also really consistent.

He's definitely the player with the highest ceiling from the 2013 group though so I expect him to reach or perhaps exceed his 2016 heights.

I do agree, but my point is still that his three seasons have been more-or-less similar when you compare the massive year-on-year improvement compared to players like Kelly. For example, look at the 2015-17 supercoach scores of the three players:
Bontempelli: 103.2, 107.7, 105.1
Kelly: 70.6, 87.1, 114.3

Hence people exaggerate how "bad" Bontempelli was because he was marginally worse than the year before, and they factor in Kelly's improvement. Was he the better player in 2017? Yes. Was he the better player by the factors that some people have posted in this thread? No. Will he be the better player next year? Given Bontempelli's 2015-16 form that Kelly doesn't have, I'd say it's around 50/50.

 

[JayJ20]

I do agree, but my point is still that his three seasons have been more-or-less similar when you compare the massive year-on-year improvement compared to players like Kelly. For example, look at the 2015-17 supercoach scores of the three players:
Bontempelli: 103.2, 107.7, 105.1
Kelly: 70.6, 87.1, 114.3

Hence people exaggerate how "bad" Bontempelli was because he was marginally worse than the year before, and they factor in Kelly's improvement. Was he the better player in 2017? Yes. Was he the better player by the factors that some people have posted in this thread? No. Will he be the better player next year? Given Bontempelli's 2015-16 form that Kelly doesn't have, I'd say it's around 50/50.

Oh I wasn't disputing that. Bont's 2016 is definitely superior to Kelly's 2017. His ability to change the game with a goal, tackle or clearance is why I rate Bont higher than Kelly, Merrett or Cripps.

FWIW, I think that Bont will be the best of the 4 this year. At this stage, he's had the best career. Needs to fix his accuracy in front of goal though. We might even see Kelly and Bont go head-to-head for the brownlow.

 

[TooBlue14]

How are each of these guys tracking pre season?

Cripps’ first season with a full preseason apparently. Should be interesting tracking his progress. 6 previous rounds before breaking his leg he was back to his best. I’d love to see a full season like that but due to his inside mid position he tends to be the one copping it. Inside word is he willbe spending considerable time forward. I do recall his early games in 2017 where he went 50/50 handball-kick this was an area for development as he tended to handball a lot in 2016. My honest opinion if he stays injury free he will be top 10 in the AFL this year. great get for the super coach loversout there.

 

[TooBlue14]

Oh I wasn't disputing that. Bont's 2016 is definitely superior to Kelly's 2017. His ability to change the game with a goal, tackle or clearance is why I rate Bont higher than Kelly, Merrett or Cripps.

FWIW, I think that Bont will be the best of the 4 this year. At this stage, he's had the best career. Needs to fix his accuracy in front of goal though. We might even see Kelly and Bont go head-to-head for the brownlow.

I’d like to think this will be cripps’s year. If not be in the conversation. Kelly is due for a slump or a stagnated year as he’s made progress every year. He might need to play a different role this year. Bont and Cripps were both injured in 2016 preseason (Cripps had a very lengthy time out with 14 weeks back stress reaction) and previously we’ve seen players have such immense years when they get their bodies right. Brownlow years occur when great players have strong preseasons even so when they get it back to back without injury.

SuperCoach scores for Cripps:
2015-97
2016-107
2017-103 (removing his final game 40 due to broken leg - 40 off 1/4 probably moves his average up slightly higher too)
2018- expect to see atleast 100 average plus

 

[The Bomb]

Footy fans just have a weird obsession with disliking and trying to disprove the most recent "hyped" players. Dangerfield, Rioli, Stringer, Martin, Franklin, Bontempelli etc. Anyone who has actually watched Bont will recognise the importance of all his disposals. A 22 touch game from Bont is game-changing. A 30 touch a game Bontempelli would be the best player in the league.

Sorry but a 25 poss game from Buddy, Daniher or Lynch would be better than a 30 poss game from the Bont, also Fyfe, Danger and Martin would have something to say about it.
Look at Danger last year, 45 goals, 77 shots on goal, 20 Goal assists, 172 clearances and 718 possessions.
Bont in the last 2 seasons has played 48 games and only managed kicked 46 goals, Danger hits the scoreboard 45 goals in 2017 alone in his last 24 games.

It would take more then 30 poss for Bont to reach Danger type levels as a player.

Bont is an amazing player but for him to reach Dangerfield type levels would take something pretty special.

 

[ttomred17]

Sorry but a 25 poss game from Buddy, Daniher or Lynch would be better than a 30 poss game from the Bont, also Fyfe, Danger and Martin would have something to say about it.
Look at Danger last year, 45 goals, 77 shots on goal, 20 Goal assists, 172 clearances and 718 possessions.
Bont in the last 2 seasons has played 48 games and only managed kicked 46 goals, Danger hits the scoreboard 45 goals in 2017 alone in his last 24 games.

It would take more then 30 poss for Bont to reach Danger type levels as a player.

Bont is an amazing player but for him to reach Dangerfield type levels would take something pretty special.

You have completely missed his entire point bra.

 

[Stopher]

A Daniher 30-touch game?

I'd like to ****ing see that!!

 

[master bate]

Sorry but a 25 poss game from Buddy, Daniher or Lynch would be better than a 30 poss game from the Bont, also Fyfe, Danger and Martin would have something to say about it.
Look at Danger last year, 45 goals, 77 shots on goal, 20 Goal assists, 172 clearances and 718 possessions.
Bont in the last 2 seasons has played 48 games and only managed kicked 46 goals, Danger hits the scoreboard 45 goals in 2017 alone in his last 24 games.

It would take more then 30 poss for Bont to reach Danger type levels as a player.

Bont is an amazing player but for him to reach Dangerfield type levels would take something pretty special.

I'd rather Bont 30 touches and 1 goal than Dangerfield 30 touches and 2 goals if both were playing major midfield minutes.

Danger is more explosive and the extra goal is nice but overall I'd rather the extra efficiency that comes with Bont's disposals.

Interestingly though I expect Bont will play more midfield in 2018 and take his average disposals up over 25 per game. Whilst Dangerfield should play more forward and his average disposals should go under 25 but he could easily progress to 2.5 goals per game.

 

[The Bomb]

You have completely missed his entire point bra.

I took it as an average of 30 poss a game for the entire year from the Bont would make him the leagues best player.
So I pretty much said the same thing a 30 poss game from Buddy or Daniher would be much better.
and then illustrated how far he is off Dangerfield currently and 30 poss would only make him closer to Danger, not better.

illustrating that Bont would need to add a goal a game on top of the extra 7 poss a game to be ahead of the likes of Danger.
Pretty big gap to close.