No Oppo Supporters General AFL Discussion #10 - Carlton Posters ONLY!

[Aphrodite]

Huge growth in girls & women playing #afl -76% inc teams,11k new players in Vic in ‘17 #aflw @aflwomens #WomenInSport

 

[AceAndy]

While I disagree with geoff's overall assessment, and it would be quite easy to dismiss everything he is writing by characterising him as just another misogynist, it's probably worth taking a step back and considering some of the things he is saying.

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Geoff's views have certainly not been met with approval but i have not seen anyone suggesting he is just another misogynist.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Got an 11 year old niece who made the choice to play AFLW, pretty good I heard too.

Shows that they are getting them early, which can only benefit the game long term.

 

[passmark]

But Geoff said nobody is interested!

 

[Bluella]

Finally, in my opinion, suggesting that no-one would pay to watch the women because they're not as good as under 15 boys, and no-one would pay to watch them, is missing the point. I'd pay to watch the women because they are the elite women's footballers playing for my beloved Carlton. I wouldn't pay to watch the under 15's because they are not the elite footballers playing for my beloved Carlton.
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I met a few people last AFLW season that paid to see the women's match - that is, they paid whatever the entry was for the double-header and didn't stick around after the women's match to watch the boys. They were there solely to watch the women's match.

I think some people struggle to separate what they, and their mates, think or would do from what EVERYONE thinks or would do. Perhaps the same ones that struggle to realise opinion does not equal fact.

 

[ODNBlue]

Geoff's views have certainly not been met with approval but i have not seen anyone suggesting he is just another misogynist.

There's been a lot of electronic eye rolling... perhaps I mis-attributed.

I think the point still stands though. I think it's worth being careful not to dismiss everything that's being said simply because aspects may be considered unpalatable...

 

[daytong]

I remember you used to actually see the players after the game going to their cars etc so you could get a signature. I remeber getting Braddles to sign my guernsey with 21 on the back and him saying "ah good on ya mate".

You just don't get that opportunity anymore sadly.

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YES those were the days!! Many signatures and photos obtained waiting out the front of Princes park after a game

 

[AceAndy]

There's been a lot of electronic eye rolling... perhaps I mis-attributed.

I think the point still stands though. I think it's worth being careful not to dismiss everything that's being said simply because aspects may be considered unpalatable...

Absolutely agreed

 

[Jimmae]

Not the best use of a hypen

 

[thylacine60]

Got an 11 year old niece who made the choice to play AFLW, pretty good I heard too.

Shows that they are getting them early, which can only benefit the game long term.

Is she as good as a boy though? If not suggest you castigate her, break her spirit and tell her unless she reaches male standards it is pointless pursuing the sport.

 

[BlueGum]

Is she as good as a boy though? If not suggest you castigate her, break her spirit and tell her unless she reaches male standards it is pointless pursuing the sport.

And make her run laps like she was a 5yo. Clearly the only teaching technique that works.

 

[My name geoff]

The circles you are moving in that don't take it seriously are irrelevant.
It is avenue, vehicle for women and girls to engage in sport that hasnt existed until recently.
You and your cohort of like-minded individuals have failed to see it is a great move towards inclusion and celebration of half the population.
Embrace it for those reasons at the very least.
If you dont enjoy the spectacle, find something else to do with your time.

I have already said I like the women's competition. I am very impressed by the vigor the women show. But like the men's competition, the people who are involved now have a responsibility to have it reach the level required for it to be a legitimate elite competition.

From my experience I don't see this to be the case.

If you want a token competition that is fine. Then expect it to be treated as such. Don't expect that just because there are now pathways for women to get involved it will just automatically improve. The right culture needs to be in place, and right now it is way off.

 

[My name geoff]

Geoff's views have certainly not been met with approval but i have not seen anyone suggesting he is just another misogynist.

I'm glad I'm not viewed as a misogynist.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Is she as good as a boy though? If not suggest you castigate her, break her spirit and tell her unless she reaches male standards it is pointless pursuing the sport.

The coaching/training aspect is light years ahead of the good old days, can only benefit juniors across the board.

Lot more emphasis on skill/strategy....3 laps, bit of end to end and 20 minutes of circle work, that’s long gone.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Not the best use of a hypen

Haha, -76% doesn’t read very well. In all seriousness though, those numbers are tremendous. Mediumsizered, summed it up well in his post. You look at these numbers, the women’s game will be unrecognisable in 5 years compared to now with significantly more elite female athletes honing their skills through their teens. Mind you, our national teams in other sports will likely suffer.

 

[thylacine60]

I'm glad I'm not viewed as a misogynist by some.

 

[passmark]

Is she as good as a boy though? If not suggest you castigate her, break her spirit and tell her unless she reaches male standards it is pointless pursuing the sport.

...and if she still insists on pursuing this folly be sure and direct her to forums like this where she can get advice from men on what women should do with their lives.

 

[Bluella]

...and if she still insists on pursuing this folly be sure and direct her to forums like this where she can get advice from men on what women should do with their lives.

She needn't limit herself to forums like this if she wants that kind of advice. No shortage of it no matter where she looks.

 

[My name geoff]

...and if she still insists on pursuing this folly be sure and direct her to forums like this where she can get advice from men on what women should do with their lives.

She needn't limit herself to forums like this if she wants that kind of advice. No shortage of it no matter where she looks.

My observation from the AFLW system is at this stage, there is not nearly enough critisim on the girls, where warranted, for it to develop into a proper competition.

This forum is reflecting the type of attitude I observed at club level.

The result: girls who have been playing football as long as most boys still haven't mastered the drop punt.

 

[lily of laguna]

I have already said I like the women's competition. I am very impressed by the vigor the women show. But like the men's competition, the people who are involved now have a responsibility to have it reach the level required for it to be a legitimate elite competition.

From my experience I don't see this to be the case.

If you want a token competition that is fine. Then expect it to be treated as such. Don't expect that just because there are now pathways for women to get involved it will just automatically improve. The right culture needs to be in place, and right now it is way off.

It is a legitimate competition right now.
Is the current standard the final outcome? No way......and many of the reasons for improvement have already been stated.
There is nothing token about the comp. from the afl right down to all the support staff.
If you want it improved further and faster, support it by anyway you see fit.
Comparing Aflw to boys footy standards at this very early stage is a fundamentally flawed approach. Instead compare it to girls footy from 2 - 3 years ago.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Sorry to disappoint but your coach sounds like a dinosaur.

Why tire the legs by making a person run laps, this will not improve their kicking technique. I believe in discipline but it would have to focus on a repetitive correct kicking technique not running laps.

If I applied the same discipline to my under 12's as per my daughters dance classes I would be asked to move on within a week.

Exactly. Coaching has evolved. I’m a coach and have been doing extra work learning how to coach women’s football (soccer) over the last two seasons. Coaching a women’s side is a completely different task and requires a different method and attitude. The old school discipline style/ hard ass involving heavy criticism of errors by making players do laps/ over exert themselves physically doesn’t work. Guidance and confidence boosting is key. When you get it right I’ve found the girls learn far quicker than any boys/ men’s teams I’ve ever run and I’ve never seen a group more committed to playing as a team.

 

[My name geoff]

It is a legitimate competition right now.
Is the current standard the final outcome? No way......and many of the reasons for improvement have already been stated.
There is nothing token about the comp. from the afl right down to all the support staff.
If you want it improved further and faster, support it by anyway you see fit.
Comparing Aflw to boys footy standards at this very early stage is a fundamentally flawed approach. Instead compare it to girls footy from 2 - 3 years ago.

When I say legitimate competition I mean, most elite competitions are charging entry fees, and customers are willing to pay for it to the point where it is a self sustaining business model. Until then the AFLW is very much token relatively speaking. The lower levels are not and that is where the majority of the girls should realistically be playing. It's their duty to prove otherwise.

The objective would be for this to be a competition which can be earning the girls a living whilst still being a profitable business. I'm saying for it to do so, you would need all the people who are currently not finding the competition entertaining, to be fans.

What I am saying is that there are girls who have played football from the age of five, continuously until today in the AFLW and are still unable to master the drop punt (the most basic, fundamental skill of AFL)

This is a hurdle the AFLW needs to overcome.

What I have observed at club level is a coddling culture which has created an entitled attitude amongst the girls I have dealt with. This is what I feel is the biggest contributor. There is zero requirement for girls to master any of the skills and this is reflected in their attitude.

The coddling attitude from people on this forum is exactly what I have seen at the clubs. Defiance. Excuses. An unshakable belief that 'it will get better'

What I am saying is that the fundamental attitude towards skills etc needs to change and those who don't fall in line need to be scrutinised. Just like the men.

 

[Dadda Dave]

My observation from the AFLW system is at this stage, there is not nearly enough critisim on the girls, where warranted, for it to develop into a proper competition.

This forum is reflecting the type of attitude I observed at club level.

The result: girls who have been playing football as long as most boys still haven't mastered the drop punt.

Have you seen Levi's drop punt. Did you ever see Rod Austin kick a drop punt back in the stone age ? Sticks wasn't to flash at them either .

 

[My name geoff]

Have you seen Levi's drop punt. Did you ever see Rod Austin kick a drop punt back in the stone age ? Sticks wasn't to flash at them either .

You are making my point for me..

What do we say about Casboult? What level of criticism does Levi cop?

 

[Stig O'Hara]

What’s the obsession with drop punts, Talking in play or set shots??

Hudson and Wade kicked near on 1800 goals between them kicking flat punts.

Pretty sure the ball hasn’t changed shape.

Whatever works, works.