Player Watch #11: Luke "Two Dogs" McDonald - Roo til end '26

[Johnny99]

1) You are referring to 3 top ten picks from a pool of 50 players spanning 5 drafts. In other words a 6% hit rate, divided by 18 clubs. The chances of lucking in to that are 0.33%.

2) Luke isn't anything like those players in style.

3) North had pick 8. Would you trade him for Salem that went at pick 9?

And if i recall, WCE bid pick 6 on him. He could have been a potential 6 pick !
And you dont think WCE are relieved they dodged that bullet ?
Or do you think Lmac is doing fine for a player that was considered a top 6 pick ?

 

[Johnny99]

I dunno, but I also don't see a point.



He will be a star. A star half back.

How do you know this ? Same thing was said about Atley. The next Chris Judd.

Hows that one working out ?

 

[King Corey]

And if i recall, WCE bid pick 6 on him. He could have been a potential 6 pick !
And you dont think WCE are relieved they dodged that bullet ?
Or do you think Lmac is doing fine for a player that was considered a top 6 pick ?

Reasonable point but WCE were just throwing in a dummy bid to drive up the price. They knew we were too far down the line to pull out on McDonald.

The footy world is pretty small, they'd have know the time we'd already sunk into Luke and the fact his dad was an entrenched staff member etc.

Perhaps we as a club could've played slightly better public cat and mouse with Luke over the previous 24 months.

 

[blackshadow]

Stick to the topic idiot. Geez. And you are calling me a moron ! Lol

I'm sticking to the topic of your moronic post. You post s**t you get called on it.

As for idiots leave Gaso out of it! ;-)

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[Pykie]

Better than Shaw & Laird. He probably won't have Docherty's marking ability, but he should be as good or better than him also.

Enright, well, he's all time great status, so I wouldn't go comparing him with any 22 year old player

I think you are underselling both of these two.

Shaw's second season arguably equalled Luke's last one gone, he's barely dropped from that level in 12 years and had 3-4 absolutely fantastic ones. He probably is unlucky not to be a 4x AA instead of a double AA.

Laird is a different type of player, probably one of the more underrated players in the comp, he averaged 30 disposals a game last season..... that's not easy to do, I don't care what position you are playing. He's an AA at 24, I can see him easily getting 4-5 by the time he retires, his footy brain is one of the best in the business.


McDonald has his own strengths that the other two don't have, I'm not sure he has the footy nous at the top level to get it 25+ times a game off half back across a full season, that he would require to match these two.


If he plays further up the ground, he has the ability to get it 25+ times a game, but then you are competing with the likes of Kelly, Martin, Bont etc.

I'm hopeful he will achieve an AA level at some point in his career, but these are guys that have achieved it at a young age (Not far off Luke's current age now tbh) and will finish as multiple AA's.

 

[MaddAdam]

Most people have unrealistic expectations about a 21 year old kid that is emerging. If the improvement curve doesn't match their beliefs, they start to exhibit dissatisfaction. What people generally don't take in to account is asking themselves whether their expectations are rational.

Luke is tracking nicely for his age & experience, based upon age comparisons with similar types that went on to become very good players..

Yep. Luke has been "around" for so long in our collective consciousness that folks forget his actual age and level of experience.

 

[RobZombie]

He was also touted to be one of the 17 year olds GWS had access to pre draft.
Same as Jkelly.
Correct ?

Not correct. They took Kelly in the open draft with #2. The decision for Luke whether to go into the mini-draft pool was the year before in 2012. Jesse Hogan and Jack Martin went in that mini-draft. So in a fully open year, Kelly #4, Luke #10 (kind of. Was bid on with WCE's #6 but reconstructing that without the minidraft is problematic. We still had #8 but with 2 extra high-quality players in the pool, every chance he gets to our round 2 pick). Dammit, we could have had Luke and Patty Cripps.

 

[RobZombie]

And if i recall, WCE bid pick 6 on him. He could have been a potential 6 pick !
And you dont think WCE are relieved they dodged that bullet ?
Or do you think Lmac is doing fine for a player that was considered a top 6 pick ?

WCE went and traded that pick after using it to bid up Luke. Collingwood used it on Scharenberg. Aish came next, then Luke, Salem, Freeman, Sheed, Lennon, Cripps.

 

[Snake_Baker]

How do you know this ? Same thing was said about Atley. The next Chris Judd.

Hows that one working out ?

1) This was the comment of an essendon recruiter.
2) The next Chris Judd wouldn't be going at pick 18.

 

[RobZombie]

Also at the same age, the bloke he was often compared to around the time he was drafted ...
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...3925&pid2=469&fid1=A&fopt1=22&fid2=A&fopt2=22

He's tracking ok. Not a slam dunk that he'll end up as good as all those multiple-AAs, obviously, but he's in the same ballpark at the same age. And 2017 was exactly what he needed to do after 2nd year blues (+ back injury) and the 2016 hammy. Needs to pull his head in and lay off the piss when he's told to.

The thing that sticks out to me when you compare him with Laird and Docherty is his much higher metres gained, along with more turnovers and fewer intercepts. Matches the eye test: he likes to bomb it long, whereas the others are the go-to guys for more controlled exits from D50. He gets more contested pill than 22yo Docherty too, with almost exactly the same effective disposals. Laird looks like a better ball user from both the stats and the eye test.

 

[Johnny99]

I'm sticking to the topic of your moronic post. You post s**t you get called on it.

As for idiots leave Gaso out of it! ;-)

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Sorry mate, I am not talking sh1t.

I am trying to have an intelligent discussion about a NMFC player who I think has/is underachieving.

If you have nothing intelligent to contribute, then don't post.

 

[blackshadow]

Sorry mate, I am not talking sh1t.

I am trying to have an intelligent discussion about a NMFC player who I think has/is underachieving.

If you have nothing intelligent to contribute, then don't post.

Anyone citing "the list manager" as a credible source is talking s**t.

 

[Zondor]

With 69 shots, or 69 beers?

69 Shots of Unicum Next. :stern look

 

[Snake_Baker]

I think you are underselling both of these two.

Shaw's second season arguably equalled Luke's last one gone, he's barely dropped from that level in 12 years and had 3-4 absolutely fantastic ones. He probably is unlucky not to be a 4x AA instead of a double AA.

Okay, equal too then.

Laird is a different type of player, probably one of the more underrated players in the comp, he averaged 30 disposals a game last season..... that's not easy to do, I don't care what position you are playing. He's an AA at 24, I can see him easily getting 4-5 by the time he retires, his footy brain is one of the best in the business.

Laird has been in the system a couple of years longer than Luke and I am not as complimentary of him as you are. He's VERY outside and racked up 3 goal assists and 60 inside 50's out of 736 disposals last year.

Luke returned 10 and 89 from 463.

In the same year Luke basically doubled Lairds tackle count and 1%ers, and he gained more average meters with 5 less disposals a match.

I'd also argue there was little difference in their 4th seasons.

McDonald has his own strengths that the other two don't have, I'm not sure he has the footy nous at the top level to get it 25+ times a game off half back across a full season, that he would require to match these two.

He gets it 20 times now, and I would claim that Luke is more accountable than those two.

I'm hopeful he will achieve an AA level at some point in his career, but these are guys that have achieved it at a young age (Not far off Luke's current age now tbh) and will finish as multiple AA's.

He's got a decade to catch Shaws two AA's.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Sorry if I have offended you, but I actually like to see a 5th premiership. Not just p1ss farting around for the next 10 years, making up the numbers.

You haven't offended me, but if you think that the rest of us don't want to see a 5th (6th, 7th, etc) premiership, then perhaps the moron label fits.

 

[Johnny99]

You haven't offended me, but if you think that the rest of us don't want to see a 5th (6th, 7th, etc) premiership, then perhaps the moron label fits.

I just say it as it is. I just want to see the NMFC be a great side again. I am sorry if i dont think every player to wear the blue and white, is a gun, champion, great player. We ended up bottom 4 last year. Maybe you need to wake up and realize were we are really at.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

I just say it as it is. I just want to see the NMFC be a great side again. I am sorry if i dont think every player to wear the blue and white, is a gun, champion, great player. We ended up bottom 4 last year. Maybe you need to wake up and realize were we are really at.

I certainly realise where we are at and it's due to deficiencies of the list and the coaching team. I'm confident that we're building a solid foundation for sustained future success

Only the crap judges can't see that LMac is far from one of our problems. He's one of our very bright prospects.

So, don't pat yourself on the back for calling it as it is. You're not - you're calling it as you see it. And you seem to be a crap judge.


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[Johnny99]

Anyone citing "the list manager" as a credible source is talking s**t.

So you think our list is looking good ? Of the last 2 JLT games which players impressed you most ?
Durdin. Simpkin. Evw. Mckay. Morgan Clarke Hibberd ?
How many rising stars nominations have we had in the last 2 years ?
How may AAs have we had.
You still think the list manager got it wrong ?

 

[King Corey]

So you think our list is looking good ? Of the last 2 JLT games which players impressed you most ?
Durdin. Simpkin. Evw. Mckay. Morgan Clarke Hibberd ?
How many rising stars nominations have we had in the last 2 years ?
How may AAs have we had.
You still think the list manager got it wrong ?

Can see both sides of this micro-discussion. The "List Manager" might've inadvertently made an accurate call on North (I can't remember what he even said) but people are naturally sidetracked by his incredible record of non-success rebuilding Richmond despite 14,000 1st round draft picks.

Oh yeh and Tambling.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Can see both sides of this micro-discussion. The "List Manager" might've inadvertently made an accurate call on North (I can't remember what he even said) but people are naturally sidetracked by his incredible record of non-success rebuilding Richmond despite 14,000 1st round draft picks.

Oh yeh and Tambling.

Everyone has 20-20 hindsight. Even morons like the "List Manager".

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[czero]

Of course it doesn't say it in a contract. I never said it does. I said the onus is on the players and or club to police that how they see fit. You would hope that a player would do the right thing by themselves and their teammates. If they don't the club might intervene and set rules. They aren't legal rules but generally the player takes it as a reality check and admits fault - similar to what Jy did.

Police what exactly? Jy had to admit fault because he committed two offences, and was fined by police for them. It wasn't because he was drunk in itself - stop making incorrect assertions as to how people are not allowed to drink by trying to show how player are policing this so called 'rule'.

You clearly haven't worked in an elite althlete setting. Football isn't an office job. Your body is your tool and you are assessed on performance. It isn't a laptop you log into at 9am and shut down at 5pm. What you do 24/7 can impact your body both in the short and long term.

Mate... Don't try to undermine my opinion and big head yourself by suggesting that only someone who works in the industry can represent a view, or is automatically right/wrong. Yes I saw the other times you wrote that, I didn't bother to respond because honestly this s**t annoys me and I get worked up about it. Please argue against my points without the self indulgence. In regards to your point, its not like all jobs, but to say its unique in that it doesn't just start at 9 and end at 5 when you leave is just incorrect. I work all day, I am contacted all hours, even on weekends and on holidays. I am expected to be sober, drug free, and clear headed for work - getting rolling drunk every night, or eating a lot of crappy food makes me perform poorly. Many jobs don't have standard hours, many jobs require you to keep to standards during work. But NO JOB, let me repeat, NO JOB, can command what you do in your free time. Sure its beneficial, like i said earlier, they could all be training 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, but they cannot command that.

They are livestock, that's the harsh reality. That's sport in general. If you don't perform and the club do not want you they parade you in front of others, hoping they want to buy you. If no one does they pat open the gate, and say bye. If you're lucky they might keep you in some other capacity.

No, they are not livestock. You freak me out with your views from the inside.

If he wants to go to the pub and drink every night that is on him. The coaches and players wouldn't appreciate it and it would impact his career negatively. I'm not sure if you understand the negative impact alcohol has on the body? Especially when we are talking about a sport that has arguably the most athletic people on the planet.

I think you are saying exactly my point, Yes, its his choice. It doesn't matter what the coaches or players think about the activity he chooses to do, it only matters that he is performing as a footballer and adhering to all his contractual responsibilities. If he isn't doing that, and he is drinking like a fish, well its one of the easiest diagnoses on poor performance that you will ever see, but its still his choice.

If we are comparing AFL athletes to professional soccer and NBA players we are in trouble. Vastly different cultures and drug testing procedures.

If you are any serious athlete you crave success. Both individually and team. This is from the top to the bottom at AFL clubs. I know first hand because I've worked with coaches who do university courses outside of work to increase their knowledge base. Players do it to, they want to improve their diets, understand how sleep can impact their recovery, how best to prepare themselves before games, and how best to recover afterwards. They speak to psychologists, dietitians, physios, exercise physiologists - the works. There is a reason why sports drinks, water, choc milk etc. are in the clubrooms after a game. That's what they want you to drink.

I am very happy for you to tell me a sport where drinking is not allowed during the season. Please, if you don't like the comparison, provide your own. However I dont see how you can reconcile the two statements I highlighted - these same athletes in soccer and NBA are _very_ serious. They spend more on health and fitness and personal development than some countries have as a GDP. For example, LeBron James earns 35 mil a year, plus millions and millions more in sponsorships, has his own chef and training staff with him at all times, has home gym stuff that outdoes anything you will find in a professional facility, and yet is found most weeks after a game hanging out in a club having a few drinks for a couple of hours. Why, because he's a person.

Dog eat dog and if you aren't taking your career seriously and giving it 100% you are just decreasing your possibility at getting the most out of your career.

I like Luke. I think he's a really good footballer but he has the potential to be elite. This is the frustration for the supporter base and i assume the coaches. I'm sure he will bounce back from this issue.

There are no problems with Luke. He is a victim of political correctness more than anything else.

 

[Coalface]

I am very happy for you to tell me a sport where drinking is not allowed during the season. Please, if you don't like the comparison, provide your own. However I dont see how you can reconcile the two statements I highlighted - these same athletes in soccer and NBA are _very_ serious. They spend more on health and fitness and personal development than some countries have as a GDP. For example, LeBron James earns 35 mil a year, plus millions and millions more in sponsorships, has his own chef and training staff with him at all times, has home gym stuff that outdoes anything you will find in a professional facility, and yet is found most weeks after a game hanging out in a club having a few drinks for a couple of hours. Why, because he's a person.


There are no problems with Luke. He is a victim of political correctness more than anything else.

......http://www.islamicsoccerleague.ca/ ?

 

[czero]

......http://www.islamicsoccerleague.ca/ ?

lol.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

That seems a strange thing to say:

1: he's progressed statistically in every category

2: he's progressed in position

3: he's progressed in impact on games

4: and lastly he's progressed to 5th in the B&F

I'm annoyed at him sure. But that doesn't undo a very good year from him.

We all hope that Luke will fulfill his potential - god knows we need some players under 24 to do so on our current list.

The problem is that Luke is a hbf'er and I don't buy into him being able to progress to midfield status. That is wishful thinking (just like those thinking JZ can become a permanent forward.)

Luke is a hbf'er who is one paced and one sided. No one doubts his courage, his shinboner spirit and his effort - but at 23 and 70 odd games we should have seen a development in his game like others of his year have shown.

I haven't given up on him completely - Luke can still be a valuable member of the side - however the idea that Luke will be an elite player in the AFL - the type of player we all expected 5 years ago - is now looking like a reach.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

^ Not the same as saying he hasn't progressed, which I recall was your position yesterday ...

I also think you're wrong in pigeon-holing him as a HBF and no chance of being elite, but time will soon prove one of us (you or I) right on this.