Autopsy 54 point loss to Fremantle

[WCE Wizard]

Fremantle Games Experience: 1765
Bulldogs Games Experience: 1275 (-490)

Fremantle Avg Age: 24y 145d
Bulldogs Avg Age: 23y 108d (-1y 37d)

Fremantle 150+ Games Played: 4
Bulldogs 150+ Games Played: 0 (-4)

Fremantle First Year Players: 5
Bulldogs First Years Players: 3 (-2)

Bottom line is we lack experience in age and total games. We fielded the least experienced team since 2015 tonight and in the first five rounds of 2018 we have been the least experienced team.

With a team this young we are going to have losses like this it's almost a given, however in R3/4 we showed that when we are on we are really on. Nights like this are frustrating, but the future is very, very bright.

Tell you one thing you have more than Fremantle is premierships that they can never stick it to you.

 

[BRWB]

Seriously not a fan of Webb and don't think he will make it.
Lipinski looked lost but doesn't help how weak his frame is. Still have slight hope he can make it.

Not many positives tonight but im turning into a big Gowers fan. Think he will have a huge one against the blues.

Other than some strut and a couple of goals when the game was dead, what are you seeing with Gowers? I see an exceptionally poor ball user and mid sized fwd who rarely gets the pill. What am I missing?

 

[dogwatch]

The following players are so bad at tackling that they are a liability at AFL level:

Webb
Lipinski
Daniel
Dale

All came to the club since Macca departed

It would be good to track missed tackle stats like rugby. They really destroy the team defence set up.

We looked really small again last night, but tackling is mostly intent.

I think you're going a bit early on Lipinski. His tackle numbers in VFL have been very good. I haven't been able to watch the games though - I get your point about missed and ineffective tackles.

Interesting that the only two players to register ZERO tackles last night were Wood and JJ. I find that a bit disturbing too.

 

[DognBones]

How bad was Bailey Dale ?

Just now, my signature is way off the mark; more like a pretty but unreliable Alpha Romeo.

 

[dogwatch]

Jong and Bont are two good examples of watching a player through the spectrum of his reputation. It's hard to avoid.

We have become so attuned (or browbeaten) into thinking one is a complete dud and the other is the best player in the AFL that it's hard to watch either with fresh eyes and form an opinion of each performance in isolation. We tend to focus on the negatives. Especially after a loss.

So when Bont is a bit off we judge him by his own high standards. In fact he did some good things last night but just wasn't as influential as he normally is. No trademark sparks of dominance that changed the flow of play or scythed through the opposition's defensive zone.

But when Jong gets a lot of the footy as he did last night the opposite doesn't apply. We don't get into a lather over how much he lifted his game.
Because he still butchers a few of them we focus on the clangers and think he's had another shocker. But last night I thought he had his best game for the year and IMO was one of our better players. Quite a lot of effective disposals (and no, I'm not just taking that from the AFL stats).

Speaking of stats, here's some fun facts (but don't read too much into them!)
Jong officially had more disposals and a higher DE% than Bont. Bont had twice as many clangers as Jong.

As with Honeychurch, we'd better getting used to seeing Jong in the side for a while. Yes, there may be questions over their long term futures but they are essential in the short term. Both are clearly in the best available 22. Maybe even our best 10. Others like Richards and Naughton will overtake them - possibly this year - but it illustrates pretty well where we are at.

 

[AJARWA]

Curious to know if anyone thinks we're making the top 8

At the start of the year I did. But it's now fairly obvious we peaked in 2016 (Picken, Dickson, Moyd, Morris, Smith, possibly Rough) and are now back in a development year. Doubt we'll bottom out though. Confident of a quick bounce. Particularly given the coaches seem to be happy pumping games into the young guys.

 

[Snake Livermore]

I think you're going a bit early on Lipinski. His tackle numbers in VFL have been very good. I haven't been able to watch the games though - I get your point about missed and ineffective tackles.

Interesting that the only two players to register ZERO tackles last night were Wood and JJ. I find that a bit disturbing too.

Yeah OK I may have gone early on Lipinski but there was one effort that just disturbed me. When Mundy kicked his first goal Lipinski literally just stuck an arm out and it was brushed aside like A DAMP PIECE OF LETTUCE.

Dale Morris would be turning in his grave (if he was dead).

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Couple of things to consider, a ground we haven’t played at before which looked huge on the TV.

The trip to Perth is the hardest gig, with the travel, the hostile fanatical crowds and usually the umpiring favours the home team, throw in four kids on their fifth game in Naughton, English, Stevens and Gowers for us, three as KPP.

Throw in fringe players/rookies in Lipinski and Webb, and you can only expect a result like this. The positive is that we are sorting out who has something to offer and getting valuable experience into them and who needs to be moved on.

I get the sneaky feeling that now Bevo has won a flag, he wants to recruit and develop us his own team to rival Hawthorn, this will take time but we have some good pieces on our chess board already in Naughton, English, Bont, McCrae etc. short term pain for long term gain approach.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Jong and Bont are two good examples of watching a player through the spectrum of his reputation. It's hard to avoid.

We have become so attuned (or browbeaten) into thinking one is a complete dud and the other is the best player in the AFL that it's hard to watch either with fresh eyes and form an opinion of each performance in isolation. We tend to focus on the negatives. Especially after a loss.

So when Bont is a bit off we judge him by his own high standards. In fact he did some good things last night but just wasn't as influential as he normally is. No trademark sparks of dominance that changed the flow of play or scythed through the opposition's defensive zone.

But when Jong gets a lot of the footy as he did last night the opposite doesn't apply. We don't get into a lather over how much he lifted his game.
Because he still butchers a few of them we focus on the clangers and think he's had another shocker. But last night I thought he had his best game for the year and IMO was one of our better players. Quite a lot of effective disposals (and no, I'm not just taking that from the AFL stats).

Speaking of stats, here's some fun facts (but don't read too much into them!)
Jong officially had more disposals and a higher DE% than Bont. Bont had twice as many clangers as Jong.

As with Honeychurch, we'd better getting used to seeing Jong in the side for a while. Yes, there may be questions over their long term futures but they are essential in the short term. Both are clearly in the best available 22. Maybe even our best 10. Others like Richards and Naughton will overtake them - possibly this year - but it illustrates pretty well where we are at.

I agree with that. Jong is an ok player with some deficiencies. He’s also coming back from a reco which used to mean your return year sucked. He’s not one I’d consider dropping.

Honey has some painful moments, like failing to kick when he had a free, but his effort is great and if our side goes any younger we will get obliterated.

Happy enough for both to get a game until there is someone clearly better (now, not potentially) available.

 

[Mofra]

We've reached a situation I never thought I'd see in my lifetime - we lack midfielders.

What do we have if we lose one more?
Thank god we get West this year - and at this rate, a first round pick before he's nominated as well.

 

[DelRe]

Just to be a bit of a wet blanket I think Wood has been poor. As a one on one defender I think he’s been well beaten the last two weeks. He does his best work in the team defence role and he’s struggling being the solo leader down there (just adds to the waste of training and playing him forward).

 

[Mr. Walker]

Did Jong tag Fyfe?

Fyfe got 42 possessions and i was wondering if Bev moved from his no tag policy.

 

[dogwatch]

Did Bevo not see the irony of him opening this week's Bevo's Brief with the words: "a deflating night"?

Lyon must have a few crims in his family!

 

[BRWB]

Jong and Bont are two good examples of watching a player through the spectrum of his reputation. It's hard to avoid.

We have become so attuned (or browbeaten) into thinking one is a complete dud and the other is the best player in the AFL that it's hard to watch either with fresh eyes and form an opinion of each performance in isolation. We tend to focus on the negatives. Especially after a loss.

So when Bont is a bit off we judge him by his own high standards. In fact he did some good things last night but just wasn't as influential as he normally is. No trademark sparks of dominance that changed the flow of play or scythed through the opposition's defensive zone.

But when Jong gets a lot of the footy as he did last night the opposite doesn't apply. We don't get into a lather over how much he lifted his game.
Because he still butchers a few of them we focus on the clangers and think he's had another shocker. But last night I thought he had his best game for the year and IMO was one of our better players. Quite a lot of effective disposals (and no, I'm not just taking that from the AFL stats).

Speaking of stats, here's some fun facts (but don't read too much into them!)
Jong officially had more disposals and a higher DE% than Bont. Bont had twice as many clangers as Jong.

As with Honeychurch, we'd better getting used to seeing Jong in the side for a while. Yes, there may be questions over their long term futures but they are essential in the short term. Both are clearly in the best available 22. Maybe even our best 10. Others like Richards and Naughton will overtake them - possibly this year - but it illustrates pretty well where we are at.

Dont disagree that Jong and even Honey are in for a while. But please dont rely on stats and use your eyes. Re watch the first 5-10 minutes of the crucial third qtr when they broke the game open. Jong had at least three fumbles and/or shit handballs that directly led to three Freo fwd fifty entries.

Stats dont show the fumbles Jong has regularly but they do show that he gets an effective handball for dishing off a set shot from 40m to JJ....FWIW I thought Jong's game was his worst this year.

2 weeks in a row Honey has been running in from 35-40m and not made the distance. Also did one of the worst shanks ive ever seen for an out on the full under no pressure.

These guys try but they are nearly always going to let us down. They are what they are.

Bont is a gun who had an off night. While some folk think Honey and Jong had great games...for them...yet they were still piss ordinary compared to Bont who may have had some clangers but still showed sublime skill at times, and therein lies the difference between them.

 

[DognBones]

Just to be a bit of a wet blanket I think Wood has been poor. As a one on one defender I think he’s been well beaten the last two weeks. He does his best work in the team defence role and he’s struggling being the solo leader down there (just adds to the waste of training and playing him forward).

Irrespective of the failed forward experiment, I think his form since 2016 has been just fair. He still takes the odd intercepting mark but his influence on games has wained. It's hard when there are few experienced players around him but I still think he's escaping more scrutiny of his performance.

 

[theburst]

I think this was worst than the GWS game. Skills were so bad at times on a great surface you thought it was bottom VFL standard. Coach is playing a really young team but crikey there were moments from the senior players that were puzzling.
We could shred just about every player e.g Mitch Wallis who is just not effective, but hoping with three of the more winnable games coming up we might be more optimistic soon.

 

[D Mitchell]

A. .... the coaches seem to be happy pumping games into the young guys.

put another way, playing the kids, a symptom of tanking.

 

[dogwatch]

Dont disagree that Jong and even Honey are in for a while. But please dont rely on stats and use your eyes. Re watch the first 5-10 minutes of the crucial third qtr when they broke the game open. Jong had at least three fumbles and/or shit handballs that directly led to three Freo fwd fifty entries.

Stats dont show the fumbles Jong has regularly but they do show that he gets an effective handball for dishing off a set shot from 40m to JJ....FWIW I thought Jong's game was his worst this year.

2 weeks in a row Honey has been running in from 35-40m and not made the distance. Also did one of the worst shanks ive ever seen for an out on the full under no pressure.

These guys try but they are nearly always going to let us down. They are what they are.

Bont is a gun who had an off night. While some folk think Honey and Jong had great games...for them...yet they were still piss ordinary compared to Bont who may have had some clangers but still showed sublime skill at times, and therein lies the difference between them.

I deliberately presented those stats as "fun" facts - i.e. not as proof of anything.

I'm not a huge Jong fan but I think he deserves credit when he does some good stuff (as well as the criticism when he doesn't).

Anyway we saw it differently. C'est le footie.

 

[yebiga]

There is only one reason to play Honey - as an example of effort and commitment.
It’s interesting that when we play well as a team - Honey is embarrassingly bad.
But when like last night - the team is embarrassing Honey is in our best.
This variability of team effort is pushing me off. There is far too much of a gap between our best and worst.
If we so desperately needed a player to set an example I would have thought asking Boyd or Murphy to player another year makes much more sense.

This is a waste of time and I feel sorry for Honey. If you can’t kick the ball over 35 meters you are not afl standard - there is no future in it - ffs.

Whilst Jong makes errors at least physically he has the capacity to come good - that’s s call you make but playing Honey is idiotic.

Worse - Bev undermines his own coaching ability if he needs a guy like Honey to set an example.

 

[yebiga]

Also - can we start playing Dunkley in the mid field?
We are lacking quality inside - he is being used as a forward when in his first year he showed he could mix it in the midfield.
He is a super strong kid who keeps his balance under physical pressure better than any of our other mids.

Dale played on the half back line for most of the first half. May be it’s for his development - but he looked totally lost and struggled to get in to the game once his confidence was shot.

 

[Next Waiting]

I watched the game again and I thought the sliding door moment was McLean's miss toward the end of the 2nd qtr. Had time and space and should have done so much better. Would have been 27 all after clawing our way back. Then the rain got heavier and there were a couple of handling and judgement errors/turnovers (1)Jongy and English - English should probably have done better, handball was OK 2) Gowers on the wing bad decision to handball to Jongy who wasn't expecting it and had few options who then handballed to Dale who could have done better by dying with the ball but allowed himself to be outmuscled - the 3 of them at fault but mostly Gowers IMO) that resulted in goals and then straight away in the 3rd qtr we stuffed the centre clearance (Bont) and they scored again.

Prior to all that (1st qtr and majority of 2nd), however, 2 of our better ball users, JJ and Daniel, gave up the ball and turned it over on a few occasions. We ended up defending when really we shouldn't have been in that situation. An observation with Daniel is that he is yet to develop an effective left foot which, given his size, i would have thought should be a priority. Twice in 2 weeks in important situations he's lent back on an inside out right foot kick that has lacked power, penetration and distance and subsequently either intercepted, turned over or cost an important opportunity. JJ has been well off in his ball use so far. Might be the worst game I've seen Bont play too. No impact and quite a few errors.

 

[lateniter]

This might be a bit simplistic for some, but going back to our 2016 grand final team (unchanged from the prelim) and making a list of those not playing against the Dockers gave me a clearer picture of why we're in the doghouse at the moment.

J Hamling
M Boyd
S Biggs
D Morris
L Picken
J Stringer
C Smith
J Roughead
T Liberatore
F Roberts

The flipside of course is a team half filled with youngsters and players not up to AFL standard.. and not on a mission from god.
Says it all, really.

 

[Walsh Bay]

Interesting that the only two players to register ZERO tackles last night were Wood and JJ. I find that a bit disturbing too.

Wood's averaging one tackle a game at the moment.

Even Dahl, (whose head is clearly not in the right place atm) is averaging 4.2. Not a fair, like-for-like comparison I know but it's patently clear we have a leadership void and defensive acts are a vital part of leading the way for our handful of players who've played more than a hundred games.

 

[Next Waiting]

Jong and Bont are two good examples of watching a player through the spectrum of his reputation. It's hard to avoid.

We have become so attuned (or browbeaten) into thinking one is a complete dud and the other is the best player in the AFL that it's hard to watch either with fresh eyes and form an opinion of each performance in isolation. We tend to focus on the negatives. Especially after a loss.

So when Bont is a bit off we judge him by his own high standards. In fact he did some good things last night but just wasn't as influential as he normally is. No trademark sparks of dominance that changed the flow of play or scythed through the opposition's defensive zone.

But when Jong gets a lot of the footy as he did last night the opposite doesn't apply. We don't get into a lather over how much he lifted his game.
Because he still butchers a few of them we focus on the clangers and think he's had another shocker. But last night I thought he had his best game for the year and IMO was one of our better players. Quite a lot of effective disposals (and no, I'm not just taking that from the AFL stats).

Speaking of stats, here's some fun facts (but don't read too much into them!)
Jong officially had more disposals and a higher DE% than Bont. Bont had twice as many clangers as Jong.

As with Honeychurch, we'd better getting used to seeing Jong in the side for a while. Yes, there may be questions over their long term futures but they are essential in the short term. Both are clearly in the best available 22. Maybe even our best 10. Others like Richards and Naughton will overtake them - possibly this year - but it illustrates pretty well where we are at.

I thought it was a pretty good game from Jongy. In my view, his kicking has improved more than any other player in the side. It's actually quite surprising to watch back and see how often he kicks to the advantage of his team mate and the effectiveness of his kicking. His goal kicking is improving as is his willingness to have a shot. Conversion rate good and I was stunned and pleased to see him kick one from 50 when fatigued at the end of the game with a wet ball. Fair effort and they might need to rethink the parameters they've set for him (presumably).

He's starting to challenge our long held perceptions of his kicking in particular and is a genuine marking option I50. This has to be good for the team. Certainly not bad.

 

[philmb]

Maybe it's not a full rebuild, just filling a few holes. We still have all of the building blocks.

Who would have thought after three awful years and October 2014, we would win a flag two years later? Things change quickly and they will again.

You are by far the most sensible poster on BF.