Opinion Jeff Kennett News, Media etc.

[Hawkk]

Cherry picking is fun. Let's give it a try.

Etihad crowds vs interstate clubs.

Round 1 - 2018 - Essendon vs Adelaide - 43,016
Round 1 - 2018 - Carlton vs Gold Coast - 28,015
Round 5 - 2017 - Bulldogs vs Brisbane - 31,822
Round 15 - 2017 - Essendon vs Brisbane - 41,246

Hell you can even cherry pick a few Collingwood crowds in there.

Round 2 - 2015 - Collingwood vs Adelaide - 33,771
Round 16 - 2015 - Collingwood vs West coast - 36,527

Not shocked that Carlton only drew 21,340 against Freo. They are running last and playing dreadful footy. Despite this they were still averaging higher home crowds in Melbourne than we were. This despite being crap, having been crap for the most part of almost a quarter of a century and having a lower membership base than us. We are having a few leanish years coming off a golden era and our crowds crater - and we wonder why Richmond fans giggle at our fans being bandwagoners? I personally would love to prove them wrong - however at least they show up continually even when their team was woeful.

I really don't care if we are better than some teams at drawing versus interstate teams. This is Hawthorn - we should never settle about being middle of the pack at anything. Who cares if we are playing an interstate team? I am going to watch the Hawks play. I don't care which opponents Sicily is making look silly or who Mitchell is slaughtering in the clearances.

We have supporters who throw tantrums about crowds in Tassie yet probably don't show up to home games in Melbourne (not saying you didn't turn up against Adelaide and Sydney). These same fans also overlook the millions of dollars Tasmania hand over to us as well as the handy membership boost. All those that rant and moan about Tasmania never have a workable solution to this. Forgive me if I don't fawn over the hand-wringing over games in Tassie from people who have zero alternatives to the benefits we get from playing there.

Until Hawks fans start showing up to games in Melbourne people can quit it with the Tassie bashing. Once we have a compelling case to mount that Melbourne members are missing out on watching blockbusters against the Suns and St Kilda - then I will happily keep pocketing the Tassie cash and banking on the uptick in memberships.

Not cherry picking at all...

The reason I brought up the most recent Richmond and Collingwood Docklands crowds is because they, like us, are MCG tenant clubs and have their own issues with getting reserve seat allocated seating for their season ticket holders. Essendon, Carlton and for that matter W Bulldogs (who lets not forget were playing their 3rd home game after an unexpected premiership at the time) are less relevant given they have pre-existing reserve seat arrangements with the stadium...

As for Carlton outdrawing us to Melbourne home games, they've played 6 home games so far this season in Melbourne (against Gold Coast, Collingwood, West Coast, Essendon, Melbourne and Fremantle drawing 39,119).

Hawthorn have played home games in Melbourne against Collingwood, Melbourne, Sydney, West Coast and Adelaide drawing 37,515). Not making excuses (those Sydney and Adelaide home crowds were extremely poor) but Carlton have played an extra home game against a Victorian club (Essendon - and we outdrew the equivalent Essendon game by 9,000 this year (Ess v Haw drew 53,018 in round 7 2018, Carl v Ess drew 44,669 in round 8 2018). To say that Carlton have outdrawn us for Melbourne home games this season whilst true is a little deceptive.

In terms of drawing crowds against low drawing non Victorian clubs in Melbourne, Hawthorn sits 3rd behind Collingwood and Essendon since 2000 (around 32,000). This was posted on the crowd thread last year, will seek to find the table...

I believe that our crowds against Sydney and Adelaide had mitigating factors and were exceptions rather then the norm. Last season, when we were at our baseline (spending most of the seasons several games outside the top 8) we drew somewhat respectable crowds against West Coast (28,997 in the Sunday Twilight slot, after being 0-4 and coming off successive 86 point beltings to the Suns and Cats), Gold Coast (27,394 on a Saturday Afternoon, after being 4-7) and Sydney (52,181 on a Friday Night, after being 7-1-9 leading into the match).

Take time to consider that in 2018 (when we were 6-2) our match against the Swans also on a Friday Night drew 19,397 lower then the same game last year. Our games against Adelaide also drew much greater numbers in 2016 and 2017 with 37,420 turning out in round 2 last season and 45,781 turning up for Burgoyne's 300th in 2016

I posted this in the crowd thread on the main board...

Oh please. Hawthorn’s ‘home’ game against West Coast (28,077) at Docklands outdrew your matches against Hawthorn (27,983) and comparable with Richmond on Easter Sunday (29,153) and the Good Friday ‘blockbuster’ (33,966). And that was an early Sunday fixture too. So if Hawthorn, with its pathological hatred for Docklands can outdraw you to your home ground you really are in a world of trouble...

If your model relies on more then 15,000 opposition fans rocking up to your most desirable home games in order to draw 30,000 you really are buggered. Regardless of whether you have 45,000 ‘members’ or not.

The reality is that Hawthorn’s last 3 MCG home games have been impacted by mitigating factors (deplorable weather and the Socceroos). This is demonstrated in the MCC forecast attendances...

Hawthorn v Melbourne - 41,983 (MCC est 50,000)
Hawthorn v Sydney - 32,784 (MCC est 46,000)
Hawthorn v Adelaide - 26,784 (MCC est 35,000)

Now naturally those numbers would be a dream for North Melbourne but they are well down on corresponding fixtures in previous seasons. Namely the Sydney and Adelaide numbers...

Sydney
Rd 19 2017 52,181 at the MCG
Rd 9 2016 61,118 at the MCG
Rd 8 2015 63,319 at the MCG
Rd 21 2014 72,724 at the MCG
Rd 8 2013 54,724 at the MCG

So the Hawks v Swans game was 27,500 down on the 5 game average

Adelaide
Rd 2 2017 37,460 at the MCG
Rd 5 2016 45,782 at the MCG
Rd 3 2012 33,524 at the MCG
Rd 21 2009 32,824 at the MCG
Rd 10 2004 22,840 at the MCG

Including 2004 (when Hawthorn crowds were at their baseline) yesterday’s game was 8,000 down on the 5 game average.

What we have with our Melbourne fixtures are two lower then expected crowds (both with mitigating circumstances) which cost us about 27,500 and 8,000 in crowd attendance. What we have in Tasmania is a decade of declining, lower then expected attendances after reaching a Launceston peak in 2008/09 of about 17,500

 

[Ned Ryerson]

We're not going to change each other's minds - however I have to rebuff the excuse that reserve tickets are hard to get for members. I got an email from the club - I followed some prompts and bingo I had reserved seats at Etihad for the game. Anyone saying that is too hard would have problems operating an ATM. If you were dedicated enough you could have sat in the GA areas on level 3 - I did that for the Norf game this year and the seats weren't terrible. I hate Etihad as much as anyone - but I still fronted to the West Coast game.

And you're still not able to answer the questions on the financial impact of leaving Tassie. When someone can come up with a plan that involves making up for the financial incentives of playing there and plugging the big membership gap that will result - then I am all ears. Until then - I want the money. We have Dingley to pay for.

 

[Great 2008]

Launceston's population is a bit over 100000
How many are in Melbourne ???

Neutrals are completely sick of teams like GC so they've stopped coming.

The Southern (Hobart) neutrals lets say 3000k - 5000k don't have to get their footy fix by spending 6 hours on the road anymore. They can walk to Blundstone Arena. North got Richmond last year and the Blues this year. Hawthorn have had Brisbane,Gold Coast, Port, Freo on a continual loop.

 

[Dragz]

The Southern (Hobart) neutrals lets say 3000k - 5000k don't have to get their footy fix by spending 6 hours on the road anymore. They can walk to Blundstone Arena. North got Richmond last year and the Blues this year. Hawthorn have had Brisbane,Gold Coast, Port, Freo on a continual loop.

There's that as well. Which is clear as the AFL can get with the "Fck off out of Tassie and leave it to North".

 

[Hawkk]

We're not going to change each other's minds - however I have to rebuff the excuse that reserve tickets are hard to get for members. I got an email from the club - I followed some prompts and bingo I had reserved seats at Etihad for the game. Anyone saying that is too hard would have problems operating an ATM. If you were dedicated enough you could have sat in the GA areas on level 3 - I did that for the Norf game this year and the seats weren't terrible. I hate Etihad as much as anyone - but I still fronted to the West Coast game.

And you're still not able to answer the questions on the financial impact of leaving Tassie. When someone can come up with a plan that involves making up for the financial incentives of playing there and plugging the big membership gap that will result - then I am all ears. Until then - I want the money. We have Dingley to pay for.

Agreed.

But the MCG tenant clubs have consistently had lower attendances for 'home' games at Docklands compared to MCG home games for years for that very reason.

Case in point, our last 6 games against West Coast...

Round 23 2012 - 50,023 at the MCG
Round 13 2013 - 32,927 at Docklands
Round 2 2016 - 42,977 at the MCG
Round 5 2017 - 28,977 at the MCG
Round 10 2018 - 28,088 at Docklands

Given the drop in crowds between the MCG and Docklands (when we were flying on the field) I thought the comparative attendance a few weeks ago was decent.

The financial implication is valid but rather then slam Melbourne crowds (which have been extremely solid for a decade or more) perhaps we should look at why our Tasmanian crowds have been declining year on year for about 10 years? Perhaps Kennett should be talking to us about Dingley, how we are going to adjust to a post pokies / Tasmania reality (which are both agendas that the AFL are chasing) rather then a one off poor attendance to a Melbourne fixture?

 

[macdaddio]

Is it just coincidence that since Jeff came back we’re back in finals contention, or is Jeff the man that Clarko missed most and needed the most to help guide him.????

 

[MrPremiership]

Is it just coincidence that since Jeff came back we’re back in finals contention, or is Jeff the man that Clarko missed most and needed the most to help guide him.????

No.

 

[The BIG X]

No.

Not sure as to which part of the question you replied"no" to.

 

[Agent Smith]

Not sure as to which part of the question you replied"no" to.

Yes.

 

[Gralin]

Is it just coincidence that since Jeff came back we’re back in finals contention, or is Jeff the man that Clarko missed most and needed the most to help guide him.????

Well he wasn't there during the threepeat so I'd say he isn't necessary for on field success

As much as he annoys me at times he's certainly reinvigorated the off field stuff and that cant hurt the footy department

 

[MrPremiership]

Not sure as to which part of the question you replied"no" to.

the first part.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Until Hawks fans start showing up to games in Melbourne people can quit it with the Tassie bashing.

Does anyone know the demographic of Hawthorn members? I mean, I've been a Hawks member living in Adelaide for many years and I'm here to tell you the Hawks are staggering popular in Adelaide. If you take Crows and Power out of the equation, I would be almost prepared to bet that Hawks would be number 3 in Adelaide for AFL membership.

You meet the odd Collingwood or Richmond fan, even the odd Essendon supporter (very odd), but I'm constantly amazed by how many Hawks supporters I meet over here. It's been that way for years, especially since Crows and Power joined the AFL. When the Crows went in, many people abandoned their VFL/AFL teams and joined up with the Crows, however, Hawks fans didn't. They remained loyal, probably because we had won 5 flags in the past 9 seasons.

Port Adelaide fans liked Collingwood because the black & white thing, plus they hated the Crows, but the moment Port went in, Collingwood were yesterday's heroes.

The point of all this is I wonder the percentage of Hawks fans who are scattered around Australia, or world wide for that matter. I've always considered part of the reason our Melbourne crowds are lower than other clubs is because of the demographic of our supporters and their inability to attend matches in Melbourne.

Having said that, I agree it would be nice to see better crowds at home matches than we attract. If we did, then maybe the Melbourne based supporters would have a case in relation to the Tasmania experiment. From outside Melbourne, I think it's great we continue to expand our membership to new horizons.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Not really Kennett news as such, but has anyone noticed the lack of AFL coverage since Kennett has been rocking the boat? I don't think we have been mentioned in the "9 things learned" segment on the AFL site for months. If we have it would be once in about 8 or 9 weeks. Even when we win, it has been a story about the side we beat. I am pretty sure his comments about a few things have pissed off HO and they have decided there will be no AFL promotion of the Hawks for a while. The joys of Jeffrey. Gotta love him

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Not really Kennett news as such, but has anyone noticed the lack of AFL coverage since Kennett has been rocking the boat? I don't think we have been mentioned in the "9 things learned" segment on the AFL site for months. If we have it would be once in about 8 or 9 weeks. Even when we win, it has been a story about the side we beat. I am pretty sure his comments about a few things have pissed off HO and they have decided there will be no AFL promotion of the Hawks for a while. The joys of Jeffrey. Gotta love him

Same AFL that asked us to help them trial new rules? I wouldn't worry too much that their pissant interns who write the fluff pieces focus on other clubs.

 

[Brishawk]

Well he wasn't there during the threepeat so I'd say he isn't necessary for on field success

As much as he annoys me at times he's certainly reinvigorated the off field stuff and that cant hurt the footy department

I think he has come back to right the ship and will leave when that work is done and he has a new high caliber president to take over. It’s what we needed to snap ourselves out of the malaise.

 

[MrPremiership]

Who's Jeff's successor? He said he wanted his successor to be in place by start of year 2.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Same AFL that asked us to help them trial new rules? I wouldn't worry too much that their pissant interns who write the fluff pieces focus on other clubs.

I am not worried by it. The AFL will ask us to assist from a tactical point of view quite a bit. Probably due to Clarkson, but they are not going to give us much publicity. Not that I am worried though, it is just a side effect of having Jeffrey in place. I love the guy

 

[Walshawk]

Thanks Jeff for getting us to wear our proper gold jumper with brown stripes every week.

 

[Hawk Hawkins]

Let’s hope this ain’t real.

 

[Holy Rioli]

View attachment 522327
Let’s hope this ain’t real.

Considering they are cousins and not uncle/nephew it clearly isn't true.

 

[Gralin]

View attachment 522327
Let’s hope this ain’t real.

Yeah it's not he said his account was hacked, also they got the relationship between Dean and Cyril wrong

 

[Hawk Hawkins]

Yeah it's not he said his account was hacked, also they got the relationship between Dean and Cyril wrong

Thanks Gralin! Glad to hear it.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Does anyone know the demographic of Hawthorn members? I mean, I've been a Hawks member living in Adelaide for many years and I'm here to tell you the Hawks are staggering popular in Adelaide. If you take Crows and Power out of the equation, I would be almost prepared to bet that Hawks would be number 3 in Adelaide for AFL membership.

You meet the odd Collingwood or Richmond fan, even the odd Essendon supporter (very odd), but I'm constantly amazed by how many Hawks supporters I meet over here. It's been that way for years, especially since Crows and Power joined the AFL. When the Crows went in, many people abandoned their VFL/AFL teams and joined up with the Crows, however, Hawks fans didn't. They remained loyal, probably because we had won 5 flags in the past 9 seasons.

Port Adelaide fans liked Collingwood because the black & white thing, plus they hated the Crows, but the moment Port went in, Collingwood were yesterday's heroes.

The point of all this is I wonder the percentage of Hawks fans who are scattered around Australia, or world wide for that matter. I've always considered part of the reason our Melbourne crowds are lower than other clubs is because of the demographic of our supporters and their inability to attend matches in Melbourne.

Having said that, I agree it would be nice to see better crowds at home matches than we attract. If we did, then maybe the Melbourne based supporters would have a case in relation to the Tasmania experiment. From outside Melbourne, I think it's great we continue to expand our membership to new horizons.

If the Hawks played 4 home games in Perth, there would be a lot more than 8000 members in Perth.

The events of 1996 with the increased TV exposure of the AFL would of increased our membership across Australia.
I know families in Perth and Adelaide, some with 22 year member scarfs and none of them have been to Victoria.
They were Swan Districts and Centrals people first, who followed Hawthorn and to them the Eagles and Crows were VFL teams that play against Hawthorn.
The WA family have always hated Freo (South and East) just as the SA family have always hated Port and strangely now they both hate Essendon more.

 

[Jane Doe]

Yeah it's not he said his account was hacked, also they got the relationship between Dean and Cyril wrong

Who would want to hack Dean Rioli’s Twitter account?

 

[Flamin Joe]

Does anyone know the demographic of Hawthorn members? I mean, I've been a Hawks member living in Adelaide for many years and I'm here to tell you the Hawks are staggering popular in Adelaide. If you take Crows and Power out of the equation, I would be almost prepared to bet that Hawks would be number 3 in Adelaide for AFL membership.

This is the case up here as well. I left Adelaide and eventually moved to Brisbane after spending a couple of years in Darwin in 2003 and I've been to every Gabba game since. The amount of Hawthorn supporters that show up to games up here is staggering. It's not uncommon to be walking to the Gabba amongst a sea of Hawthorn scarves/guernsey's everywhere you looked. You could almost be mistaken you were in Melbourne walking to the 'G.

It's the same driving around Brisbane and the surrounding suburbs. I've lost count the number of times I've seen the odd Hawthorn sticker on the back of a car or seen some random in public wearing a Hawks cap. I've seen a few other teams here and there (I feel sorry for the Saint's supporting kid/father in my Son's class at primary school lol) but never to the same extent.

When the Crows went in, many people abandoned their VFL/AFL teams and joined up with the Crows, however, Hawks fans didn't. They remained loyal, probably because we had won 5 flags in the past 9 seasons.

Hate to burst your bubble but you'd be naive in thinking Hawthorn supporters were immune to switching to the Crows when they joined. Back when I lived in Adelaide I knew one and worked with another who use to support Hawthorn but switched to the Crows (but still had a soft spot for the Hawks). All teams had supporters who were lost when state teams were formed.

Port Adelaide fans liked Collingwood because the black & white thing, plus they hated the Crows, but the moment Port went in, Collingwood were yesterday's heroes.

On the flip side, I went to a Norwood vs Port game at Norwood Oval with my mate back in the late nineties and we met a Port Adelaide supporter who followed Hawthorn. Both my mate and I couldn't believe it!