News Hawthorn in the media 2023

[Strapping Young Lad]

Please don’t bring Barrett’s sliding doors rubbish here. That’s not the Hawthorn footy club in the media.

That’s a desperate article, trying to get clicks every week.

 

[libbylou]

I thought the game was at the MCG.

 

[Flukey!]

I thought the game was at the MCG.

The merger game was if that is what you are asking?

 

[Crankyhawk]

Was that the year of the merger ?

The specific game was the last of the regular season with supporters chanting no merger, where Langford waved his jumper at the crowd after the game joining the chant. I had a vhs copy from “name a game” but it just has the match and none of the surrounding context.

 

[Big Hotdog]

It’s the only time I ever got to be on the hallowed MCG turf.

I get the feeling we are meant to be playing.

"Who am I?"

 

[Lawsy]

Exactly right.

The fact that Reeves has some pretty obvious limitations means that to me the gap between Meek and Reeves isn't as big as a lot of posters think.

I'd still pick Reeves for round 1 but I don't have him as a lock in our 22 all year like say Sicily or Lewis.

Who is our starting ruckman next year will all depend on how far and how quickly Reeves and Meek can improve in their specific areas of weakness.

There are limitations with Reeves but also with Meek too.
If you used the same objectivity when assessing Meek as you do with Reeves, you should be able to reasonably suggest that Meek is a long way from being a No.1 ruck at any club, not just ours.
Reeves was picked, week-in, week-out by the selection committee for the whole of last year. It is a battle between the two of them and based upon that alone, I'd say Reeves is like Sicily, a lock.
If we are looking a whole year forward to guess who has made the most improvements to their weaknesses then Meek will have had to have transformed himself into something spectacular to give our midfield the same output that Reeves did this year.
I'd love a mixture of the two but I can't recall a specialist tap ruckman who is also a crash and bash ruckman so I still think the first use of the ball is most important to where we as a club are heading. Meek has to get his hands on it first and give it to our mids, otherwise he's surplus IMO.

 

[DogDaySonny]

Looking forward to the annual * to make finals , possible top 4/ Jack Stringer best pre season ever - win brownlow edition

I think they are going with Carlton as premiership favourites to move the subscription needle this year. They have dug that Essendon mine has hard as it can be these last three pre-seasons. Carlton has a nice, large supporter base and makes a good substitution for Essendon in the annual spring revenue drive.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

There are limitations with Reeves but also with Meek too.
If you used the same objectivity when assessing Meek as you do with Reeves, you should be able to reasonably suggest that Meek is a long way from being a No.1 ruck at any club, not just ours.
Reeves was picked, week-in, week-out by the selection committee for the whole of last year. It is a battle between the two of them and based upon that alone, I'd say Reeves is like Sicily, a lock.
If we are looking a whole year forward to guess who has made the most improvements to their weaknesses then Meek will have had to have transformed himself into something spectacular to give our midfield the same output that Reeves did this year.
I'd love a mixture of the two but I can't recall a specialist tap ruckman who is also a crash and bash ruckman so I still think the first use of the ball is most important to where we as a club are heading. Meek has to get his hands on it first and give it to our mids, otherwise he's surplus IMO.

I have been as harsh a critic of Meek as anyone, he definitely didn't set the world on fire this year.

But....on occasions I saw in his game a more complete modern ruckmans game than what I have seen from Reeves.

By that I mean he was getting the ball around the ground, taking marks in our defensive 50, etc.

Like I said if he can keep improving on his overall game and if Reeves doesn't make material gains in his areas of weakness the gap between them won't be that big.

 

[Tony3163]

I have been as harsh a critic of Meek as anyone, he definitely didn't set the world on fire this year.

But....on occasions I saw in his game a more complete modern ruckmans game than what I have seen from Reeves.

By that I mean he was getting the ball around the ground, taking marks in our defensive 50, etc.

Like I said if he can keep improving on his overall game and if Reeves doesn't make material gains in his areas of weakness the gap between them won't be that big.

A lot of ‘ifs’

 

[Sixpence]

A lot of ‘ifs’

Yep. Basically if Meek improves a lot and Reeves doesn't, he'll overtake Reeves. No s**t.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Yep. Basically if Meek improves a lot and Reeves doesn't, he'll overtake Reeves. No s**t.

The fact is that both of our ruckman have obvious deficiencies in their games.

It's not like Meek is trying to knock Sean Darcy, Tim English or Max Gawn out of the team.

He's trying to knock a guy who, whilst getting a lot of hitouts to advantage, also averages 8 disposals and 1.5 marks a game out of the team.

If Meek could even rise to the level of a solid mid tier physical AFL ruckman (think Mumford, Nankervis, McInerney type) he will be in with a shot.

I don't think that's an unrealistic scenario. Meek has the physical tools, he just needs the mongrel.

 

[peetoo]

Reeves fair showings v Gawn suggest some potential

 

[The hands of stone]

I have been as harsh a critic of Meek as anyone, he definitely didn't set the world on fire this year.

But....on occasions I saw in his game a more complete modern ruckmans game than what I have seen from Reeves.

By that I mean he was getting the ball around the ground, taking marks in our defensive 50, etc.

Like I said if he can keep improving on his overall game and if Reeves doesn't make material gains in his areas of weakness the gap between them won't be that big.

Its a bit confusing what your saying , maybe its just how its coming across to me.

I think its fair to say you dont rate Reeves , which is fine as an opinion .
But Meek who has show less at AFL level has a more complete modern game .
Ive seen Reeves at least 3 times in the past season better some elite rucks for large periods of games and its a good argument he beat them or split 50/50 over the game .
He pantsed English first time out against the dogs.

I dont think you like Reeves style , again thats fine but the club clearly sees that as being the best work with our mix and how we play .

Im not sure how Meek plays a more modern game , to me he is a bull/Nankervis type who pretty much are through any era .

They should be a good combo if we can make that work

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Its a bit confusing what your saying , maybe its just how its coming across to me.

I think its fair to say you dont rate Reeves , which is fine as an opinion .
But Meek who has show less at AFL level has a more complete modern game .
Ive seen Reeves at least 3 times in the past season better some elite rucks for large periods of games and its a good argument he beat them or split 50/50 over the game .
He pantsed English first time out against the dogs.

I dont think you like Reeves style , again thats fine but the club clearly sees that as being the best work with our mix and how we play .

Im not sure how Meek plays a more modern game , to me he is a bull/Nankervis type who pretty much are through any era .

They should be a good combo if we can make that work

It may sound odd but yes I think that Meek, who has indeed shown less than Reeves to date, has a more rounded game than Reeves.

And yes I personally favour rucks who can contribute around the ground instead of purely winning Ruck contests.

The combo isn't going to happen IMO, both Meek and Reeves are pure rucks. They don't have the capacity to be dual position players like Hale or Big Boy.

Once again I agree that come round 1 Reeves will be picked but I don't think it's a fait accompli that he will be our number 1 Ruck all year IF he doesn't improve his around the ground work and IF Meek can make some material gains in his tap work and aggression.

 

[KermitJagger]

It may sound odd but yes I think that Meek, who has indeed shown less than Reeves to date, has a more rounded game than Reeves.

And yes I personally favour rucks who can contribute around the ground instead of purely winning Ruck contests.

The combo isn't going to happen IMO, both Meek and Reeves are pure rucks. They don't have the capacity to be dual position players like Hale or Big Boy.

Once again I agree that come round 1 Reeves will be picked but I don't think it's a fait accompli that he will be our number 1 Ruck all year IF he doesn't improve his around the ground work and IF Meek can make some material gains in his tap work and aggression.

Collingwood shed one of the best all round rucks in the competition over the past decade and won a flag with Mason Cox and Darcy Cameron.

Also, calling Oscar McInerney a mid tier physical ruckman is comical. At 206, gangly and not particularly mobile he's far closer to Reeves than he is to Meek.

Just not 100% sure you know what you're talking about when it comes to rucks.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Collingwood shed one of the best all round rucks in the competition over the past decade and won a flag with Mason Cox and Darcy Cameron.

Also, calling Oscar McInerney a mid tier physical ruckman is comical. At 206, gangly and not particularly mobile he's far closer to Reeves than he is to Meek.

Just not 100% sure you know what you're talking about when it comes to rucks.

The reason they got rid of Grundy (apart from the salary dump) is that Cameron is actually a pretty decent ruck who contributes a reasonable amount around the ground. Good mark for a ruck as well

Cameron is exactly the kind of player I am hoping Meek could become. That is good enough in the hitouts but also contributing around the ground.

McInervy, yes probably not best example. In fact he's probably the closest to a pure tap ruck going around these days (next to Reeves). But even the big O still gets his 12 possessions a game which Reeves is a long way off doing (yet).

 

[kirbatron]

I dont think Meek has any mongrel in him which is annoying because he's a specimen with decent skills

 

[Brant]

Re: Reeves, you mentioned his 1.5 marks & 8 disposal average. He averages 28 hitouts.

He's trying to knock a guy who, whilst getting a lot of hitouts to advantage, also averages 8 disposals and 1.5 marks a game out of the team.

Meek averages 9.5 disposals (albeit has only 16 games & hasn't had a consistent run). He averages 18 hitouts.

My issue... let's say Meek got a good run at it:

• Ruckwork remains the same,
• Maybe he gets awesome at marking & lands 3x marks a game (McEvoy averaged 2.1), &,
• Maybe he really develops around the ground & averages 12.5 disposals (McEvoy averaged 11.6).

I just don't think an extra 4x disposals + 1x mark per game would in any way make up for the -10 hitout differential he'd give up to Reeves (which maybe equates to -2 clearances to us & +2 clearances to them).

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Re: Reeves, you mentioned his 1.5 marks & 8 disposal average. He averages 28 hitouts.


Meek averages 9.5 disposals (albeit has only 16 games & hasn't had a consistent run). He averages 18 hitouts.

My issue... let's say Meek got a good run at it:

• Ruckwork remains the same,
• Maybe he gets awesome at marking & lands 3x marks a game (McEvoy averaged 2.1), &,
• Maybe he really develops around the ground & averages 12.5 disposals (McEvoy averaged 11.6).

I just don't think an extra 4x disposals + 1x mark per game would in any way make up for the -10 hitout differential he'd give up to Reeves (which maybe equates to -2 clearances to us & +2 clearances to them).

Hard to take Meeks stats on face value as he has often played as back up ruck coming off the bench which will impact his averages.

It's a fair point you make about the importance of clearances in the modern game but I still feel like the gap between Meek and Reeves isn't as large as many here think.

Will be interesting to see how it unfolds this year. Especially if Meek is killing it at VFL level like he did at the later stages of 2023.

The club really targeted Meek, I feel like they thought he could be more than just a back up VFL ruck.

 

[Brant]

Hard to take Meeks stats on face value as he has often played as back up ruck coming off the bench which will impact his averages.
It's a fair point you make about the importance of clearances in the modern game but I still feel like the gap between Meek and Reeves isn't as large as many here think.
Will be interesting to see how it unfolds this year. Especially if Meek is killing it at VFL level like he did at the later stages of 2023.
The club really targeted Meek, I feel like they thought he could be more than just a back up VFL ruck.

This is the beauty of having him. He probably is better than back up/VFL ruck - which gives us options.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

This is the beauty of having him. He probably is better than back up/VFL ruck - which gives us options.

Yes, exactly.

We have a senior ruck in Reeves who has great ability in the hitouts whilst also having significant areas of his game to work.

And we have a back up ruck in the VFL who is a level above VFL whilst also having areas of his game to work on.

That seems to me to be not a bad outcome as Meek will be striving to improve his weaknesses to get a game in the seniors and Reeves will need to keep improving to keep his spot.

That's been my whole point, it's really a two horse race for who will be out senior ruckman for the next five years and I don't think it's done and dusted yet.

 

[FB19]

I dont get the vitriolic attacks when anyone says Reeves isnt that great just yet. He has one great strength in tap work and not much else so far. He’s young and has time and I hope he becomes more rounded and a long term key player.
I agree with Simon Crawshay that Reeves and Meek present very different strengths and weaknesses and we should want strong competition between them for the #1 spot. That would not only help them individually but us collectively. I personally am fascinated to watch the rucks including chol and ramsden this year to see where we end up as a best 23.

 

[Steven Tyler]

This was the last time i went to footy game with my parents and sister. My mum is a Melbourne supporter. She refused to come to the game unless we sat with Melbourne section of supporters.

I sat there the whole game with Melbourne supporters bagging out piggy. How he was old. Hope he would play out the game and other assorted bullshit. It was an exciting game with the perfect finish and win and langers after the game it was highly emotional game. My sister had bought me a Hawthorn winter jacket a couple of weeks earlier. I still wear that jacket to every box hill and hawthorn game. It reminds me how close we came to losing our great club. I will never forget that game at Waverley

Waverley?

It was at the MCG

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

The reason they got rid of Grundy (apart from the salary dump) is that Cameron is actually a pretty decent ruck who contributes a reasonable amount around the ground. Good mark for a ruck as well

Cameron is exactly the kind of player I am hoping Meek could become. That is good enough in the hitouts but also contributing around the ground.

McInervy, yes probably not best example. In fact he's probably the closest to a pure tap ruck going around these days (next to Reeves). But even the big O still gets his 12 possessions a game which Reeves is a long way off doing (yet).

Cameron isn't much better than Meek. I'd argue Cox is more like Reeves. When he gets his first hands on it he gives their mids first use repeatedly. Did it quite often last year. Cameron is the more reliable of the two but his ceiling is what your getting now IMO. Meek has shown he is more than capable of being a solid ruck but is too inconsistent. Work on his consistency than he enters the conversation as a close battle with Reeves.

 

[Sixpence]

I dont get the vitriolic attacks when anyone says Reeves isnt that great just yet. He has one great strength in tap work and not much else so far. He’s young and has time and I hope he becomes more rounded and a long term key player.
I agree with Simon Crawshay that Reeves and Meek present very different strengths and weaknesses and we should want strong competition between them for the #1 spot. That would not only help them individually but us collectively. I personally am fascinated to watch the rucks including chol and ramsden this year to see where we end up as a best 23.

Unless there's been some deleted posts, what vitriol are you talking about?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

People clearly see what they want to see.

Fact is Reeves is arguably the best up and coming tap ruckman in the comp when you look at his numbers and better still, when you watch the service he gives our mids.
In the last 5 games of the 2023 season Hawthorn were the clear number 1 side for hitout win %, ahead of sides with much more experienced rucks.

Another season working on his connection with Newk, Worpel, Day and Nash and we’re sure to see benefits.