List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2018/2019 - Part 2!

[Knightmare]

Trade Sier, Insanity

He's coming good in a hurry.

If Carlton are watching, he's one they'd have a lot of interest in.

 

[TradeDraft]

Collingwood can (and in my view should) go all in on Lukosius. Irrespective of how close to contention the club may think they are.

Best on ground last night for Henley in their win against Prince Alfred College. His kicking was flat out ridiculous. He'll kick to what looks like a contest and pick a needle out of a haystack. He was reading the ball in flight as soon as it left the boot and was in position each time to take the intercept mark simply. And playing as a key defender, he would push up to full forward and run all the way back. *Though I'd draft him to play key forward and let him simply run free end-to-end as he feels content.

If interested, it's worth reading my piece in my signature on who Carlton should pick with pick 1 if you need any convincing.
*Spoiler - think of Lukosius as Nick Riewoldt if he could kick like Ben Reid circa 2011 and the best I've seen in my 10 years covering the draft.

Two players I consider overvalued commodities certainly internally, externally harder to say. But Darcy Moore and Jamie Elliott are two I would have no issue with trading. Moore is a nice to have, but ultimately he is potential over performance and his persistent hamstring issues I suspect will be an ongoing problem with Collingwood historically having trouble with repeat injury types. Similarly with Jamie Elliott with his ankles. Only 17 games over three years, none this year. You're not providing the list any value if you're sitting in the stands.

If it means Moore, Elliott, Fasolo and maybe Langdon and a 2019 pick need moving, I'm open to exploring what trade can be made. Brayden Sier if they want a young mid could be an alternative to one of those pieces if he is willing to move for greater opportunity and responsibility.

Lukosius is a Nathan Buckley level opportunity and in the clubs position of greatest need. With Collingwood a winning/competitive team, the club are in a position to get the most out of him. Like Buckley, Lukosius has the scope to become the best in the game, and in combination with Grundy it would feel like Collingwood are two players up every week with both practically playing like extra midfielders at their positions.

So this Kid is once in a Generation Type that could be 1 of the Beast KPF ever? Knightmare

Would you Trade Anyone to get him?

 

[TradeDraft]

Hi Knightmare, I still can’t see how we can land him. Essentially we would need the first pick in the draft so do you think Carlton would be willing to trade their first for Moore, Elliot and our first? Or next year’s first? Or do you think we may be able to get a top 10 pick for Moore from another club (maybe the Saints first if it goes to the Swans), and give that to Carlton with our first and Elliot/Sier?

I think you’d need to give up Sidebottom and a top 10 pick to even get Carlton thinking about it.

I haven’t really seen Lukosius and he may have the potential to be a great player. But what actually makes him that good? Is he a big contested marking forward who has good skills and endurance? If he isn’t a great contested mark, is he simply a skilled midfielder who happens to be tall?

I’d happily give up Moore, Elliot and a first for the opportunity to find out, however, I’m no so sure the Blues (I’m assuming Moore won’t go to the GC) would be interested.

They would not trade him to Collingwood

 

[TradeDraft]

The criticism of Langdon this year is done so by people who have a low footy IQ or have not been following this game for very long.

BS. People have a Good Point about Langdon

 

[Knightmare]

Hi Knightmare, I still can’t see how we can land him. Essentially we would need the first pick in the draft so do you think Carlton would be willing to trade their first for Moore, Elliot and our first? Or next year’s first? Or do you think we may be able to get a top 10 pick for Moore from another club (maybe the Saints first if it goes to the Swans), and give that to Carlton with our first and Elliot/Sier?

I think you’d need to give up Sidebottom and a top 10 pick to even get Carlton thinking about it.

I haven’t really seen Lukosius and he may have the potential to be a great player. But what actually makes him that good? Is he a big contested marking forward who has good skills and endurance? If he isn’t a great contested mark, is he simply a skilled midfielder who happens to be tall?

I’d happily give up Moore, Elliot and a first for the opportunity to find out, however, I’m no so sure the Blues (I’m assuming Moore won’t go to the GC) would be interested.

Collingwood's first for this year can't be traded as the club traded their 2015/2016 picks unless another first round pick can be gained for this year as the rule is over a four year span, you need to take minimum x2 first rounders.

I think overall we need to explore scenarios.

A lot of those pieces I suggest have an ambiguous value due to their injury histories. You'll probably find a lot of them have very different perceived values if you ask the range of clubs.

I'm not sure Sidebottom should be Carlton's target. He doesn't fit their list profile. They need quality youth and guys who are at least 26 and younger.

It might mean a complicated combination of trading players to other teams for picks and/or three way trades to help facilitate such a trade as Darcy Moore will be a lot more valuable to a Sydney or Geelong based on their list needs than he would be to a Carlton.

I see the situation roughly as Carlton if offered by Adelaide the three top 20 picks with one inside the top 10 as being roughly the value required if quantified as picks.

If Collingwood offer the 2019 first round pick, can flip Moore for a top 10 pick, offer one of Elliott, Langdon or Sier or trade for another pick inside the top 20 and add Fasolo to the deal, that would be roughly my thinking and would be the currency I would be hoping for.

If nothing like that works I'd explore other players. Phillips, Sier, Langdon and Fasolo might be the kind of haul Carlton may consider as a group that are young enough to help long term and make that best 22 more competitive right away, filling their most pressing list holes.

Other than Grundy, I'm really open minded to exploring some options and getting creative.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare, I usually agree with your views, but trading Moore, Elliot, Fasolo, Langdon & Sier for an 18-year old kid- that’s insanity. 4/5 players for 1 player. Lukosius could become the best in the game, but we can’t be getting rid off 5 (potential) Best 22 for the next 10+ years for an 18- year old kid.

I understand your rationale, but I think you’re over-estimating the amount of impact Lukosius will have in his first 3-4 seasons. Our premiership window is ajar atm, and I don’t think trading out 5 key members for 1 kid betters our chances of a premiership.

I'm looking at Moore, Elliott and Fasolo as injury prone and likely to struggle to put together 22 games between the three. Langdon is replaceable with a few of the same types who can intercept down back. Sier as a younger mid while a nice to have isn't a must keep with an established midfield even without him.

While it may feel like a lot being given up, giving up a combination of players has the benefit of relieving salary cap pressure and allowing the club to pursue free agents.

I wouldn't mind the Pies adding Jarryd Roughead, Scott Thompson and considering a few others during the trade period. Adding a few mature agers is possible.

I agree with you conceptually that the AFL isn't a one man game and it takes a list to win. You can have the greatest to ever play on your side and still never win, but with free agency, capable mature agers out there and good drafting capabilities. I feel it's easier now to replenish those good numbers and make moves where assuming the salary cap hit isn't crippling to go and look for deals where you get the best player out of it.

 

[Knightmare]

Yep he has had a good year but history says not a lot of mature age tall forwards kick on at AFL level on a second chance. Maybe Mihocek changes that view?

Younger version who is going ok is Nathan Krueger. Was impressed with him last year and seen a bit of him this year and is developing nicely.

I still probably see Mihocek more as a key back. He's passable as a forward, but I don't think it's his best go.

Kreuger is coming along in the SANFL and having a good year. Has improved and is a freak athlete and is dexterous. He could be considered as a rookie, but I'd be looking for more immediate options if I can't get a star or early draft key forward.

 

[Knightmare]

Geez that would be a ballsy move.

I'd be happy with Moore, Elliot, Faz + 2019 pick. Faz isn't best 22 and Moore / Elliot combine to play maybe half a season between them. Not sure Carlton would take that tbh. Perhaps if Walsh goes pick 1 and we offer that package to Gold Coast after? That package of older players may be more appealing to them

Knightmare, if we trade our 1st round pick for this year, how does that impact our ability to match for Quaynor and Kelly? Do we have any potential NGA or Father-Sons coming through next year that we also need to keep 2nd / 3rd round picks for?

This years first rounder can't be traded with 2015/2016 picks traded and the rule being you have to use two first round picks every four years. The 2019 pick under that rule can be made available, and may be more appealing anyway if other sides think Collingwood drop off somewhat in 2019 with a harder draw.

Quaynor and Kelly shouldn't require a first round pick to get. + there are carryover points now to ensure you get your academy prospects.

With Carlton, it's about asking them what they're after. Is it just young players. Mids?

Fasolo can be thrown in, but it's just finding those pieces that appeal to Carlton. And with their issue being lack of quality after a few projected stars, I can see them having interest in quantity of picks/players if they feel several of those pieces will add to their best 22 and overall exceed the value they would get from pick 1.

 

[Mudeo]

BS. People have a Good Point about Langdon

Sorry Dave his disposal isnt great yes, but, i think we tend to forget that he is only 24 and is still a year off doing his knee.
What people dont seem to realise with Langdon is how good he is in a tight contested situation. He gets the kudos for his marking/intercept marking but its what he does with the ball when there are 5 forwards around him.
We are lucky with Pendles, Adams ect. in that they are elite around those contests so other players arent noticed as much. But Langdon is one of the best we have in that regard

 

[RUNVS]

Not that I really want him because he sounds like he is going to traded as a friend for Sam Reid in rehab but given that there are Swans posters saying the Moore trade is a done deal, and taking into account his injuries what do Collingwood fans realistically expect for Moore?

 

[Knightmare]

So this Kid is once in a Generation Type that could be 1 of the Beast KPF ever? Knightmare

Would you Trade Anyone to get him?

Anyone except Grundy I'd have on the table - if the net combination of pieces added is within reason.

There are players who pose greater value to Collingwood than Carlton - talls, players 26+ years of age. Those younger types, mids, general forwards, general backs Carlton probably need with a higher urgency, so consideration into those types of pieces that could be of greater value to Carlton than they necessarily would be to Collingwood are the types of names that would need to come up in a trade.

Lukosius could be in that conversation with Franklin/N.Riewoldt/Pavlich/J.Brown etc we've seen this millennium.

Overall I see the situation as - pick one is of greater value to Collingwood than Carlton. Whereas young players and numbers of young players is something Carlton need a lot more, particularly through the midfield. So if a Sier and other types like that can be traded. Phillips, Landgon. They're the kinds of types who Carlton should be looking into.

 

[Knightmare]

Not that I really want him because he sounds like he is going to traded as a friend for Sam Reid in rehab but given that there are Swans posters saying the Moore trade is a done deal, and taking into account his injuries what do Collingwood fans realistically expect for Moore?

Collingwood would be asking for the 2018/2019 first rounders from Sydney - noting that Sydney are a top 8, maybe top 4 team, and probably won't drop off much in 2019 either knowing the clubs history for being good each year.

Sydney may be able to get Moore and something else to be negotiated back in a deal around the rough value of a second round pick.

 

[legendstatus]

Adam Treloar
Luke Ball
Darren Jolly...

Try again.

Not sure if serious??? Luke Ball & Jolly??? Treloar was a good recruit but not in the BIG category

Come on get with it


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[legendstatus]

Moore, Elliott and Fasolo have (been selected to) play 8 AFL games this year between them.

Edit for accuracy


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Thefly38]

As far as I know we aren’t asking questions about Shiel. I keep hearing Carlton.

I would prefer Shiel over any other possibly available player and by a long way too.

 

[Robroy22]

Right now Langdon is probably in the top 5 most important players in the team. We need him to hold the backline together.

People are way too harsh on him. Sure we makes some silly errors with his casual disposal, but he does win a lot of contests. Did a great job on Gray last week and will continue to be asked to take on the oppositions dangerous forwards.

While everyone rates Scharenberg very highly, it’s surprising that Langdon is rated so lowly in comparison when he has been given the more difficult role and has performed well.

I think it’s no surprise our backline struggled in previous years while Langdon was out injured. Him coming back into the team (and Dunn), has seen the backline performed so much better leaking far less goals.

So people should give the kid a break. He is a valuable member of our best 22.

He's doing a great job atm along with a few others.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Not that I really want him because he sounds like he is going to traded as a friend for Sam Reid in rehab but given that there are Swans posters saying the Moore trade is a done deal, and taking into account his injuries what do Collingwood fans realistically expect for Moore?

Has to be their first rounder IMO, if he's leaving for Sydney they must have made him a sizeable offer, first rounder or GTFO.

 

[Thefly38]

Has to be their first rounder IMO, if he's leaving for Sydney they must have made him a sizeable offer, first rounder or GTFO.

yep there first round pick as a minimum

 

[Frank Gallagher]

I would prefer Shiel over any other possibly available player and by a long way too.

And play him where? Our midfield is fine, we have issues at either end of the ground, especially down back.

 

[Magpie Monopoly]

Not that I really want him because he sounds like he is going to traded as a friend for Sam Reid in rehab but given that there are Swans posters saying the Moore trade is a done deal, and taking into account his injuries what do Collingwood fans realistically expect for Moore?

May end up at the Swans, but it'll cost you and arm and a leg. Son of a Collingwood great, one of the highest ceilings in the league in a tough position and is 22.

You'll be lucky if you get him for a 1st, particularly given the Swans relationship with Collingwood. You can bet Eddie will make sure he gets his pint of blood if a deal is getting done.

Also makes no sense that a deal is done yet, with either party.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Collingwood would be asking for the 2018/2019 first rounders from Sydney - noting that Sydney are a top 8, maybe top 4 team, and probably won't drop off much in 2019 either knowing the clubs history for being good each year.

Sydney may be able to get Moore and something else to be negotiated back in a deal around the rough value of a second round pick.

For us to have a snowflakes chance in hell of getting 2 firsts for Moore he'd have to play finals this year, and play well, and of course stay healthy.

I just don't see that happening, i very much doubt they'll be rushing him back after a VFL game into an AFL final, he's to big a risk of leaving us a man down again.

I don't get whh McLarty isn't playing KB in the VFL, he might not have Moores talent but he's big-fast and durable, i'm actually staggered he's not playing KB, unless the club feels he doesn't need to play back because he already knows the trade, what are your thoughts on that Knightmare ?

 

[frizzle]

Unfortunately it looks like Elliott is done. His back is stuffed. We should trade him while he still has some value.

Disagree. Too talented to be moving on. Just needs to be on the right program & managed well.
We aren’t managing injuries well nor rehabbing well. We must get better at this.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Disagree. Too talented to be moving on. Just needs to be on the right program & managed well.
We aren’t managing injuries well nor rehabbing well. We must get better at this.

It's the same guys going down all the time though, Moore-Wells-Reid-Elliott, IMO we can only take 2 of that group into next season, i'd pay out Wells and Reid to open up 2 extra list spots.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Didn’t Moore’s manager come out about 2 months ago and said he was staying?

 

[frizzle]

It's the same guys going down all the time though, Moore-Wells-Reid-Elliott, IMO we can only take 2 of that group into next season, i'd pay out Wells and Reid to open up 2 extra list spots.

Sure but Elliott, Moore & Josh Smith all did hamstrings around the same time earlier in the year.
All of them had at least 5 or 6 weeks without playing at any level for what was described as minor strains.
All 3 returned after that long layoff & all 3 had reoccurrence of the same injury.
That’s a rehab fail in anyway you look at it.