News Jack Dyer Stand may go in $60m Punt Road Oval redevelopment

[Ned_Flanders]

Alex Rance's academy is in the suburbs.
He leases a property.
There is no need to expand education facilities on the Punt Road Oval site.
If the ulterior motive is to receive donations from the federal government, I am not in favour of it.
Why should Richmond receive donations when many state and low-income Catholic schools are struggling?

so you're not against this development, you're against any development at any club with govt money.

the reason we are getting funding isn't because we are a kick arse footy team. the reason we get funding is because we contribute a s**t load to developing young indigenous youth, whether they will play afl or not

 

[RFCGloryJC]

They are providing great services but it doesn't need to be expanded, that is all.
As Caro writes, AFL, VFL, AFLW, VFLW, and wheelchair categories, provide enough means for expansion.

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

They are providing great services but it doesn't need to be expanded, that is all.
As Caro writes, AFL, VFL, AFLW, VFLW, and wheelchair categories, provide enough means for expansion.

That’s the Australian attitude to progressive change right there

“We’re doing a great job - must be enough”.

If you have a program that is doing fantastic work and making positive social impact, is scaleable and can have greater impact at an achievable and measurable cost... why would you not develop it further?

 

[tigernsw]

Richmond are and always will be a big part of my life and I love the history attached to it....., but progress almost always wins. Keep a small part of the stadium and keep the memory alive in a way that all parties find respectful, proud, honoured and there's your answer. Work with the Dyer family and Richmond historians until we find the correct way to go about it..... basically...., the opposite to what the AFL are doing with the new mooted rule changes.

 

[RFCGloryJC]

I admire Bachar Houli. I am sure we all do.
But to establish a school, you would probably require a PhD in Education or Education Administration.
Even a doctorate in Muslim theology, surely.
I am not sure what the education credentials are.
We don't know whether he is being exploited as a front man.
If it's not kosher, I don't think we should be part of it.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I admire Bachar Houli. I am sure we all do.
But to establish a school, you would probably require a PhD in Education or Education Administration.
Even a doctorate in Muslim theology, surely.
I am not sure what the education credentials are.
We don't know whether he is being exploited as a front man.
If it's not kosher, I don't think we should be part of it.

Houli isn't running a school

1) The Bachar Houli Academy is not a school. It is "a high performance football talent program for emerging junior players, who are from an Islamic Background. The three-day program involves skills acquisition, high performance testing, football education and leadership development." Houli is not a teacher, or a theologian in the sessions. He is the Head Coach. Other people perform the roles of program manager and cultural leader within the programs. This is old, but its an article that sums up well what the Houli program does http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/2014-12-08/bachar-houli-program-grows

2) the school is an indigenous transition school. One of the issues facing bringing some kids from some communities into Melbourne is we shove them in Scotch College or similar, but the schooling they had previously was inadequate. As a result, they are behind the 8-ball from the start, and often get frustrated and struggle to cope with the transition as a result. The idea of this school is to bridge the gap. Kids some in, and for one year get accelerated learning to get them up to speed, and ready to move straight into one of the melbourne schools. https://www.mits.vic.edu.au/

3) This then leads into the KGI (https://www.kgi.org.au/). This has been a huge success, with programs such as the REAL program which is about teaching leadership and empowerment, to the Languntas who are a junior indigenous football team. The

This is not about lip service either. Most of the KGI programs are not for footballers. Also Richmond is genuinely committed to this program, and it is very much becoming a core part of the internal culture at the club. It has also been globally recognized, with KGI and RFC presenting direct to the UN on the program this year https://www.kgi.org.au/news/richmond-invited-to-present-at-the-united-nations/

4) then the final education piece, the Richmond Institute of Sports Leadership http://www.richmondinstitute.com.au/. This is the newest piece of the puzzle, which is a "unique dual diploma is designed to complement student development as an athlete with a strong emphasis on experiential learning and practical skills and a focus on management and leadership capabilities. The courses are delivered by the Richmond Football Club and Swinburne University of Technology. Students have access to state-of-the-art high performance training, teaching and learning facilities. In addition, students will gain industry placement and on successful completion of the dual diploma, guaranteed university pathway into selected Bachelor courses."



Most participants will never play AFL, and many were women before the AFL-W was even a thing. If we are getting govt funding for learning, it has to be able delivering genuine benefits to the community and the students involved. Otherwise we are just a aussie version of Trump University, and the govt would rightly kill funding to all of these. yes, we benefit because it means we are more likely to have successful draftees from our academy region, and we are more likely to develop stronger leaders amongst our own players, and we get some govt funded infrastructure to support these activities. However its also our chance as a club to stand for something more than playing football, and give something back to the community other than another pokie palace

my personal view is this strategy will be seen in 50 years time as the cornerstone for the entire rebuilding of our club from a rabble to a sustainable powerhouse

 

[RFCGloryJC]

I hope you are a right. I am a traditionalist.
I believe in the history, heritage and tradition of the ground.
Punt Road Oval is unique in Australian sport, its siting in the sport precinct.
The stand is unique, and once it is gone, it is gone.
It is an icon which is more than dollars and cents. It is hallowed ground.
You can't teach sporting excellence, it's not a semester course.
No-one teaches a Federer.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

That’s the Australian attitude to progressive change right there
“We’re doing a great job - must be enough”.
If you have a program that is doing fantastic work and making positive social impact, is scaleable and can have greater impact at an achievable and measurable cost... why would you not develop it further?

Yeah love it! She'll be right mate!

 

[Heisenberg_]

I hope you are a right. I am a traditionalist.
I believe in the history, heritage and tradition of the ground.
Punt Road Oval is unique in Australian sport, its siting in the sport precinct.
The stand is unique, and once it is gone, it is gone.
It is an icon which is more than dollars and cents. It is hallowed ground.
You can't teach sporting excellence, it's not a semester course.
No-one teaches a Federer.

Yes let’s sit on our hands and not make any improvements to our facilities when the opportunity presents itself and then wonder why other clubs go past us because we were resting on our laurels.
You may think classrooms are useless, but that’s how we got our current facilities built and it’s the only way to get government funding and it’s been a key to building our culture.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Andre Agassi's parents suspended a ball from his cot when he was a toddler, encouraging him to play tennis strokes from a young age.
Sports excellence is a lifetime journey requiring decades of dedication, blood, sweat and tears.
To me, these sports "pathway" courses are corporate claptrap, PR marketing jargon.
If we receive a single cent in federal funding, I would be disappointed.
Especially when universities, TAFE and schools are struggling for funding.
We can agree to disagree and I hope the discourse is civil.

what outcomes of what the KGI delivers do you think a claptrap?

The MITS is a fully accredited high school in Victoria, how its its schooling claptrap?

The RISL is in conjunction with Swinburne Uni, and as its an accredited course (cert 3 or 4, genuinely forget) it has to be approved and accepted to be delivered as such (RTO's are now much more rigorously regulated after the shonks of the early 2000's)


as for funding, the KGI, MITS, Houli Academy all receive ongoing financial support for their activities. Now THIS is where the fun starts. A number of my clients are in the same space, and getting govt funding is hell on earth. You do not get a cheque and walk away. You have constant reviews and assessments and audits, to ensure that the funds you are receiving are delivering the specific community outcomes the relevant dept is supporting. Clients (ie the students) are interviewed during and post service support. Operations get audited by third parties. If anything is not kosher, funding is suspended immediately pending a full review (which can result in criminal sanctions is harm, mistreatment, or fraud is found to have occurred.

I have had clients have millions in funding jeopardised just because paperwork was dated incorrectly. Thats how seriously they take adherence to funding obligations in the DHHS, DSS, Dept of Employment, and so on. The fact we are not only maintaining funding obligations with the departments, but being lauded for them by their political masters and having them increased should not be taken lightly. This only happens if we are doing a good job, doing it appropriately, and getting the outcomes required.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

BTW Im not saying all AFL clubs do this well, so open up the flood gates (funding wise)

Collingwood got funding for the glasshouse as it was going to be a community sports facility available to the locals in the area. This was correct in principle, but the pies basically booked the complex 23/7, so it was realistically impossible for locals to book any access times.

Other clubs had community engagement programs which were basically the same as school visits.

Funding for this kind of s**t is over, because the govt depts were livid that funding had been provided for farcical outcomes.

a good example of a club who has done it well is the Dogs. Their joint venture with Victoria University sees the dogs get a fully funded VFL side, but VU then use the club as a real life class room for multiple courses it runs (started with sports science, and expanded from there). It has given VU a stronger rep in the market, because students learn a s**t load more dealing with real life professional sports people than they do writing about fictional case studies in a class room.

I get people who dont funding from govt for footy clubs like RFCGloryJC , but the one proviso i would have is unless the services being performed are at least equal or superior to the high water mark of those currently being provided or delivered elsewhere

 

[theflea]

Yes let’s sit on our hands and not make any improvements to our facilities when the opportunity presents itself and then wonder why other clubs go past us because we were resting on our laurels.
You may think classrooms are useless, but that’s how we got our current facilities built and it’s the only way to get government funding and it’s been a key to building our culture.

Agree, the crux of the matter is, without any women's sport or educational aspect we wouldn't get any funding period. So we would have to fund it ourselves and this is simply beyond our capability. If there was another way, we would do it, but because we cant this is the reason why we want to redo the JD stand. Practicalities nearly always win out.

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

If you think about it this way, our inclusion of these cultural, community and education services is VERY traditional.

It’s a contemporary take on tradition. Sports were never traditionally about cups and elite performance and tv rights. They were about community and recreation. A way for people to get together, to keep active and get a relief from the 9 to 5 hardships ( though they were very different back in the day).

Engagement in local sports and community activities is fading aspect of contemporary society.

The more inclusion and community benefits we can promote and engage in the better.

 

[tora tora tora]

I like the sound of the redevelopment. We never want our club to slip back to the bad old days. What extra expense would there be to keep the stand & expand all the facilities the club needs? Melbourne's skyline is going up & up. Lots of heritage/memories getting lost in the process.
I'd contribute to a building fund if we could not get government to contribute more.

 

[Infamy]

Richmond are and always will be a big part of my life and I love the history attached to it....., but progress almost always wins. Keep a small part of the stadium and keep the memory alive in a way that all parties find respectful, proud, honoured and there's your answer. Work with the Dyer family and Richmond historians until we find the correct way to go about it..... basically...., the opposite to what the AFL are doing with the new mooted rule changes.

We've named quite a lot after Jack Dyer, would the family even miss one of them?
Not sure they even need to be consulted​

 

[Shazza_]

Because with fed and state funding, there is nothing to show

We are mid way through a negotiation for funding, and the amount of funding we get will determine what can be done

Remember we got $0.00 from the last state govt $300m plan for local grounds.

why

 

[Ned_Flanders]

why

Not sure, heard a lot of rumours, but nothing firm tbh

 

[Shazza_]

Not sure, heard a lot of rumours, but nothing firm tbh

what did u hear

 

[Ned_Flanders]

what did u hear

Caro speculated our plan was deliberately bumped because it was gunna take out trees, and that would kill the alp in richmond with leftie voters

Others said the aflw swing and miss hurt us

Others that us and the pies were seen as having enough wealth ourselves to need it

 

[Shazza_]

Caro speculated our plan was deliberately bumped because it was gunna take out trees, and that would kill the alp in richmond with leftie voters

Others said the aflw swing and miss hurt us

Others that us and the pies were seen as having enough wealth ourselves to need it

lol didnt they give money to the druggis

 

[Ned_Flanders]

lol didnt they give money to the druggis

As I said, I've heard nothing I consider 100% firm

 

[Bojangles17]

We've named quite a lot after Jack Dyer, would the family even miss one of them?
Not sure they even need to be consulted​

He’s the cornerstone of this great club , putting Richmond fc on the map, we d be nowhere near the scale we are today if it weren’t for jack dyer . All that said I agree , he is honoured with our B&F name bestowed and that marvellous bronze statue

 

[RFCGloryJC]

These sports "pathway" degrees are crapola.
Richo even did an advert for a sports massage therapy vocational college.
When schools, TAFE and universities are struggling for federal funds, I don't think we should be scheming for donations.
It's marketing BS, corporate jargon.
Focus on football and preserving our heritage.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

These sports "pathway" degrees are crapola.
Richo even did an advert for a sports massage therapy vocational college.
When schools, TAFE and universities are struggling for federal funds, I don't think we should be scheming for donations.
It's marketing BS.

specifics, not the vibe

what are the KGI and MITS doing thats crapola?

 

[RFCGloryJC]

I am referring to the planned expansion.
The new degrees are corporate PR nonsense.
Give funding to existing institutions.