Mega Thread 2018 Trade Period Discussion part 3!

[Shaz2012]

Tom Boyd was traded for 4,6,7
Josh Kelly effectively for 3&9

But yeah, 8,16 & 21 would be one of the highest ever prices.

Staggering stuff

Well unless you can come up with a heap of other huge ones, it is “one of” the highest. Also, if 8 gets you King or Rozee then 8, 16 & 21 > 3 & 9. If 8 doesn’t, then its less than 3 & 9, but not by as much as your trying to imply.

 

[YKIMS]

Yes he's done well with the history he's had in recent years. But only with obvious success with his first picks. With 3 first round selections (8,13,16), this would be his ultimate claim to fame if he can bag us 2 or 3 future regular AFL players from these early picks.

Ok first of all, his "ultimate claim to fame" will not stem from having his strongest draft hand ever, nor will it be from "bagging us two or three future regular AFL players" from four picks inside the top 21 of a supposed 'superdraft' - the minimum expectation is that he finds at least three from those picks who will go on to have long, successful AFL careers. That is what he's paid for, with the added pressure of those picks virtually replacing McGovern and Lever in essence (having originated from those trades).

Secondly, as for your "only with obvious success with his first picks" comment, have you followed his career at all? Or our recruiting more to the point??

Not only did Hamish have to negotiate draft sanctions in his first two years, but he's basically nailed at least one selection in almost every one of the highly speculative Rookie Drafts to date, with the exception of 2016.

Please name me one other head recruiter who's been able to do this as consistently or successfully in that period, or one who's had the adversity of sanctions during that time yet still nailed their later picks?

Here's how far off the mark your comment was:

2012 (draft sanctions applied)

ND
Pick 81 - Rory Atkins

RD
Pick 14 - Kyle Hartigan


2013 (draft sanctions applied)

ND
Pick 23 - Matt Crouch
Pick 46 - Riley Knight

RD
Pick 7 - Charlie Cameron
Pick 40 - Jake Kelly


2014

ND
Pick 14 - Jake Lever
Pick 43 - Mitch McGovern

RD
Pick 9 - Reilly O'Brien


2015

ND
Pick 11 - Wayne Milera
Pick 17 - Tom Doedee (when all and sundry mocked him for doing so)

RD
Pick 48 - Hugh Greenwood (Cat B)
Pick 58 - Alex Keath (Cat B)

So not only did he nail the two first rounders, but also both late Rookie selections, and in the process he identified three blokes from other sporting backgrounds, in the same draft no less, who are now good enough to be considered first 22 players...


2016

ND
Pick 15 - Jordan Gallucci
Pick 44 - Myles Poholke
Pick 51 - Elliot Himmelberg
Pick 75 - Ben Davis


2017

ND
Pick 12 - Darcy Fogarty
Pick 40 - Andrew McPherson

RD
Pick 17 - Patrick Wilson
Pick 38 - Lachlan Murphy


I really don't know how much more he could have done with what he had to work with

 

[slice]

Yep. Board still full of w*nkers

 

[kirky]

Feeling that none of the draft picks will move in the first 5 picks and come the 6th the GCS will swap with Adelaide (8 & 21).

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Well at the moment we only have two spots available on our list so unless we decide to move on Cheney or Signarello then four picks inside 21 holds no real value for us.

It also depends too on how much they rate those SA boys, I would have no problem with the club taking a risk if they club felt that one of the SA boys were worth it.

Being conservative is great if the list requires it, but the club's stance at the moment with the list seems to indicate that the club might be looking for quality more than quantity.

How can you say that #21 has no value in a very strong first round Draft ......we fapped about our first pick in the year we had no draft picks and #23 in the 2013 Draft

Our whole Draft thread discussion was about who'd we get ....it was our focus of all pre-draft discussion, and we got Matt Crouch ....now you say #21 hold no real value !!

This is what I don't get ....whatever our first pick is, that's our primary focus & the picks thereafter seem an after-thought .....in 2015 all our discussion was about #11 ...and #17 (still a strong pick) hardly got any discussion ....Doedee was almost an after-thought after Milera
If we didn't have #11 all our discussion would have been focused on #17

This year all our talk is #8 .......I can't believe how little focus and importance is being placed on #16 and #21 .....which as I've said, in any other Draft, if it was our sole pick ....we'd be excited about who we'd be getting

These 4 picks are "super" picks ....please don't water down their value !!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I would be taking Luko and Rozee, then trading down to 8 or 9 for Hately and using their picks in the twenties for Valente and McLennan.

A core group of South Australians to build the future around, all who know each other and have been part of a winning setup. Hately and Rozee are ready to go and with Valente, potentially great leaders.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

All I'll say is ..our future has never been determined, based on getting St Australian players .....will that guarantee they stay at the Crows in a future where $$$$$ WILL sway players loyalties ? ...NO!

Home-sick Polec .....bought!
Skirt over head Wingard ...runs away to Hawthorn

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Well at the moment we only have two spots available on our list so unless we decide to move on Cheney or Signarello then four picks inside 21 holds no real value for us.

It also depends too on how much they rate those SA boys, I would have no problem with the club taking a risk if they club felt that one of the SA boys were worth it.

Being conservative is great if the list requires it, but the club's stance at the moment with the list seems to indicate that the club might be looking for quality more than quantity.

Can I add further ....I'd take a pick #21 in this Draft, every single day of the week, in preference to a 30 year old Cheney !!!

 

[Murray2503]

Feeling that none of the draft picks will move in the first 5 picks and come the 6th the GCS will swap with Adelaide (8 & 21).

Port may offer gc 10 and 15 for 6. In fact I am pretty certain they would. Club might need to consider 8 and 16 if they want 6. Would only do it if a player they were after is guaranteed to be there at 6.

 

[Croweater23]

Ogilvie more or less confirmed that when getting interviewed at the combine. His words were something to the effect of "we've thought about trading up the draft but a full hand is very tempting". The way I read this was we would trade up the draft if a suitable deal could be done but otherwise we will go in with a full hand. I don't blame Ogilvie. This would be one of the few times he's had a really strong hand and he doesn't want to sell it all for one pick.

History of Ogivy’s picks and the history of the draft both suggest that is the right decision

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I’d rather keep our picks. Whoever we get at 8 is going to be a gun and whoever Hamish takes at 13, 16 and 21 is going to collectively give us more than just Luko or Izak.

Gold Coast are a basket case and all three of these SA boys are crows fans. Which childhood Crows fan would EVER choose Port over the Crows? Normally I agree that SA kids don’t come back from Melbourne. But the Gold Coast is a different story.

Let’s take these picks the draft. I am excited. Can’t wait to find out who falls out and we get at 8. Then add to that RCD, Butters and Stocker. How can we possibly turn our noses up at that.

I take issue with this ....you say #8 will be a gun ...but then say #13, #16, #21 "collectively" will equal Luko.......what are you saying man !!

Each one of those picks by their own ....if it was our only pick, we'd be saying how we'd be getting a very good player .........too many are watering down the value of each of these picks and watering down who we get at those picks !

 

[Croweater23]

Yeah you’re right. Who’d ever pay that for a Pav or NRoo.

If you’re going to give up that much you’re better off waiting for them to get drafted IMO. IF Lukocious does turn out to be a superstar, wouldn’t take too much more than that to get him in the door as an established player IMO. That’s two first round picks and a second rounder.

Are they televising the draft?

 

[John Who]

What are you talking about?

8, 16 & 21 is ******* miles and miles away from the highest price paid.

The problem is that you're comparing picks from one year to another year's. Sure Luko or Rankine might be comparable to NRoo or Pav, but are this year's picks 8, 16, 21 the same as the year in which NRoo or Pav has currency?

If this is supposedly a Superdraft, then that would imply pick 8 is still a highly valued commodity, and picks 13, 16 and 21 isn't something you can just laugh at and throw away like a ragdoll.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The problem is that you're comparing picks from one year to another year's. Sure Luko or Rankine might be comparable to NRoo or Pav, but are this year's picks 8, 16, 21 the same as the year in which NRoo or Pav has currency?

If this is supposedly a Superdraft, then that would imply pick 8 is still a highly valued commodity, and picks 13, 16 and 21 isn't something you can just laugh at and throw away like a ragdoll.

 

[Crowked]

I don’t think GC need more 2018 picks.

8 + our 2019 second for pick 6.

 

[John Who]

Ok first of all, his "ultimate claim to fame" will not stem from having his strongest draft hand ever, nor will it be from "bagging us two or three future regular AFL players" from four picks inside the top 21 of a supposed 'superdraft' - the minimum expectation is that he finds at least three from those picks who will go on to have long, successful AFL careers. That is what he's paid for, with the added pressure of those picks virtually replacing McGovern and Lever in essence (having originated from those trades).

Secondly, as for your "only with obvious success with his first picks" comment, have you followed his career at all? Or our recruiting more to the point??

Not only did Hamish have to negotiate draft sanctions in his first two years, but he's basically nailed at least one selection in almost every one of the highly speculative Rookie Drafts to date, with the exception of 2016.

Please name me one other head recruiter who's been able to do this as consistently or successfully in that period, or one who's had the adversity of sanctions during that time yet still nailed their later picks?

Here's how far off the mark your comment was:

2012 (draft sanctions applied)

ND
Pick 81 - Rory Atkins

RD
Pick 14 - Kyle Hartigan


2013 (draft sanctions applied)

ND
Pick 23 - Matt Crouch
Pick 46 - Riley Knight

RD
Pick 7 - Charlie Cameron
Pick 40 - Jake Kelly


2014

ND
Pick 14 - Jake Lever
Pick 43 - Mitch McGovern

RD
Pick 9 - Reilly O'Brien


2015

ND
Pick 11 - Wayne Milera
Pick 17 - Tom Doedee (when all and sundry mocked him for doing so)

RD
Pick 48 - Hugh Greenwood (Cat B)
Pick 58 - Alex Keath (Cat B)

So not only did he nail the two first rounders, but also both late Rookie selections, and in the process he identified three blokes from other sporting backgrounds, in the same draft no less, who are now good enough to be considered first 22 players...


2016

ND
Pick 15 - Jordan Gallucci
Pick 44 - Myles Poholke
Pick 51 - Elliot Himmelberg
Pick 75 - Ben Davis


2017

ND
Pick 12 - Darcy Fogarty
Pick 40 - Andrew McPherson

RD
Pick 17 - Patrick Wilson
Pick 38 - Lachlan Murphy


I really don't know how much more he could have done with what he had to work with

I'm not actually arguing the fact Hamish has done a remarkable job. My point really, was that he's never had the chance to show us what he really has with this many first round selections to choose from! And I'm merely referencing the National Draft picks, not discussion on the Rookie Draft.

It's more the point that this is his main chance to do some serious damage with the draft choices we currently have. Hoping to see at least 2 (3 would be awesome) out-and-out superstars by Hamish. We can all hope!

 

[Crow till I die]

Ok first of all, his "ultimate claim to fame" will not stem from having his strongest draft hand ever, nor will it be from "bagging us two or three future regular AFL players" from four picks inside the top 21 of a supposed 'superdraft' - the minimum expectation is that he finds at least three from those picks who will go on to have long, successful AFL careers. That is what he's paid for, with the added pressure of those picks virtually replacing McGovern and Lever in essence (having originated from those trades).

Secondly, as for your "only with obvious success with his first picks" comment, have you followed his career at all? Or our recruiting more to the point??

Not only did Hamish have to negotiate draft sanctions in his first two years, but he's basically nailed at least one selection in almost every one of the highly speculative Rookie Drafts to date, with the exception of 2016.

Please name me one other head recruiter who's been able to do this as consistently or successfully in that period, or one who's had the adversity of sanctions during that time yet still nailed their later picks?

Here's how far off the mark your comment was:

2012 (draft sanctions applied)

ND
Pick 81 - Rory Atkins

RD
Pick 14 - Kyle Hartigan


2013 (draft sanctions applied)

ND
Pick 23 - Matt Crouch
Pick 46 - Riley Knight

RD
Pick 7 - Charlie Cameron
Pick 40 - Jake Kelly


2014

ND
Pick 14 - Jake Lever
Pick 43 - Mitch McGovern

RD
Pick 9 - Reilly O'Brien


2015

ND
Pick 11 - Wayne Milera
Pick 17 - Tom Doedee (when all and sundry mocked him for doing so)

RD
Pick 48 - Hugh Greenwood (Cat B)
Pick 58 - Alex Keath (Cat B)

So not only did he nail the two first rounders, but also both late Rookie selections, and in the process he identified three blokes from other sporting backgrounds, in the same draft no less, who are now good enough to be considered first 22 players...


2016

ND
Pick 15 - Jordan Gallucci
Pick 44 - Myles Poholke
Pick 51 - Elliot Himmelberg
Pick 75 - Ben Davis


2017

ND
Pick 12 - Darcy Fogarty
Pick 40 - Andrew McPherson

RD
Pick 17 - Patrick Wilson
Pick 38 - Lachlan Murphy


I really don't know how much more he could have done with what he had to work with

He has and it actually presents as a case for the club to trade up in this draft. We have some late picks and rookie picks and with a track record of hits from later picks, if we consolidate our 1st rounders to 2 picks to get a pick 2 say and also keep pick 16, i am confident haggis will still find late gems with the other picks in the 70's +

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Tom Boyd was traded for 4,6,7
Josh Kelly effectively for 3&9

But yeah, 8,16 & 21 would be one of the highest ever prices.

Staggering stuff

No, Tom Boyd was traded for Ryan Griffin & pick #6. Ryan Griffin wasn't effectively worth picks #4 & #7 in some playstation trade.

Josh Kelly hasn't been traded so not sure WTF you are on about.

I can't recall any player traded for 3x 1st rounders, which was the point Shaz2012 was making... let alone for an unproven player.

 

[Crow till I die]

I don’t think GC need more 2018 picks.

8 + our 2019 second for pick 6.

The ideal deal is 6 + 29 (the later of their 2nd rounders) for our 8 + 21. The upgrade of 2nd's for them makes it a pick they can use and they may very well still get their guy projected at 6 at pick 8. This is one we should be going hard at as it helps us and it helps them. I would be very happy to hit draft night with pick trading with 6,13,16 & 29

 

[Sanders]

If you’re going to give up that much you’re better off waiting for them to get drafted IMO. IF Lukocious does turn out to be a superstar, wouldn’t take too much more than that to get him in the door as an established player IMO. That’s two first round picks and a second rounder.

Are they televising the draft?

Again, stop with the first rounder thing

1 & 18 are both first round picks, with vastly different values.

First round picks are not equal

 

[Sanders]

The problem is that you're comparing picks from one year to another year's. Sure Luko or Rankine might be comparable to NRoo or Pav, but are this year's picks 8, 16, 21 the same as the year in which NRoo or Pav has currency?

If this is supposedly a Superdraft, then that would imply pick 8 is still a highly valued commodity, and picks 13, 16 and 21 isn't something you can just laugh at and throw away like a ragdoll.

There is no problem in my analysis

 

[Sanders]

Well unless you can come up with a heap of other huge ones, it is “one of” the highest. Also, if 8 gets you King or Rozee then 8, 16 & 21 > 3 & 9. If 8 doesn’t, then its less than 3 & 9, but not by as much as your trying to imply.

It isn’t even one of the highest you innumerate pillock

 

[Sanders]

Can I add further ....I'd take a pick #21 in this Draft, every single day of the week, in preference to a 30 year old Cheney !!!

What sort of false choice is this?

 

[big78sam]

Pick 9 went back the other way in the tyson/kelly trade. It was pick 2 (kelly) for tyson and 9. Plus later pick swaps.

 

[ManInTheArena]

Geez mate thats too negative, back the club in ok

I am backing the club in, to use the picks we've got, and not care about the meltdown that happens on here because there's so much jizz no one can think straight.

 

[ManInTheArena]

OK. Ignoring my personal views, let’s take this a little further and accept everything you’re saying as gospel

If that’s the case, why wouldn’t those who hold the picks be doubly keen to trade out their high picks for more chances?

Surely Gold Coast would be beating down our door?

I don't know, I suppose that's not our problem and 'those clubs' have probably been the worst drafters in the last ten years.