Buckleys coaching in the Grand Final

[WillieNillie]

I think in the spectacle that was the closeness of the Grand Final and the many epic moments it had, a key point that was missed was just how poorly Bucks coached during the day itself. Now I have watched the game many many many times and it was probably only the 2nd time I watched it I realised just how many poor decisions Buckley made. Considering he was named coach of the year I think the performance he had on the day deserves more scrutiny then it got. A few key errors were

1. De Goeys time as a deep forward - Fact of the matter is DeGoey spent way too much time as a deep forward. The 3 goals he kicked. 2 came from him being in the midfield and getting onto a receive 60m out from goal and the other one came from him leading running back inside 50 and shrugging a few tackles in open play. Fact is by half time, De Goey had not won a single aerial contest one on one and in all reality he wasnt going too. Schofields strength is his aerial ability. Schofields weakness is tracking his man when he runs up the ground. De Goey needed to spend alot more time up the ground. By half time this was clear as day yet nothing changed during the game. Even in the final throngs of the game with 5 minutes left, De Goey was the deepest forward losing the aerial battles still.

2. Sidebottoms use - Even Adam Simpson admitted. Eagles were worried about when Sidebottom was coming off a half back flank. So much so we put Rioli or Ryan to follow him into the square when he came off the back and only moved Hutchings onto Sidebottom during the next stoppage in play. Question is why the hell did Bucks not put him at half back flank? If he took Hutchings down into our forward line it would have been a net loss for us at the time. Sidebottom was clearly struggling. Buckley mentioned after the game he lamented his teams lack of dare and drive of half back. Surely Sidebottom would have helped this? I think the acceptance of this matchup despite the fact it was going against them was odd

3. Tagging Elliot Yeo - It didnt make much sense to me. Buckley was the first person all year to tag him and while it was working in stopping his influence, the reason people dont tag Yeo was all too apparent by half time. Shuey is the more damaging player. Shuey had struggled with the tag two weeks in a row too. The decision to make the change at half time seemed weird to me also. Given the flow of the game it would have made more sense to get Adams to play tighter on Shuey rather then just change all your matchups

4. Use of Jaimes Aish - Guy was on our weakest link in the forward line. The guy you would want to run off. Aish didnt do this. Worst part of all is Bucks just let it continue. It was a missed opportunity here. We got a nil all draw from our worst player for the day in Venables because of this

5. Mason Coxs use - At half time he decided to move Cox up the ground more. While he took more marks, it played into our hands as it meant the next kick was easier to pick off as a mark. Cox got 1 possession but he was bringing the ball to the ground in the first half. Once he moved up the ground McGovern, Schofield and co were alot more happy and comfortable with things. They should have cleared space for Cox in the forward 50, not move Cox to more space

I can think of more myself still. Whether it be Siers weirdly low TOG, Pendlebury not heading down back a bit more to help set up play. Overall though it was a poor performance from Buckley. He made reactionary decisions to quell our influence (swapping tags) rather then to improve his own teams influence (moving De Goey to the midfield). I think he coached a team as if it was losing the game all too often. It was not befitting of a so called coach of the year and it is probably a game Bucks will look back on with a ton of regret

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I think in the spectacle that was the closeness of the Grand Final and the many epic moments it had, a key point that was missed was just how poorly Bucks coached during the day itself. Now I have watched the game many many many times and it was probably only the 2nd time I watched it I realised just how many poor decisions Buckley made. Considering he was named coach of the year I think the performance he had on the day deserves more scrutiny then it got. A few key errors were

1. De Goeys time as a deep forward - Fact of the matter is DeGoey spent way too much time as a deep forward. The 3 goals he kicked. 2 came from him being in the midfield and getting onto a receive 60m out from goal and the other one came from him leading running back inside 50 and shrugging a few tackles in open play. Fact is by half time, De Goey had not won a single aerial contest one on one and in all reality he wasnt going too. Schofields strength is his aerial ability. Schofields weakness is tracking his man when he runs up the ground. De Goey needed to spend alot more time up the ground. By half time this was clear as day yet nothing changed during the game. Even in the final throngs of the game with 5 minutes left, De Goey was the deepest forward losing the aerial battles still.

2. Sidebottoms use - Even Adam Simpson admitted. Eagles were worried about when Sidebottom was coming off a half back flank. So much so we put Rioli or Ryan to follow him into the square when he came off the back and only moved Hutchings onto Sidebottom during the next stoppage in play. Question is why the hell did Bucks not put him at half back flank? If he took Hutchings down into our forward line it would have been a net loss for us at the time. Sidebottom was clearly struggling. Buckley mentioned after the game he lamented his teams lack of dare and drive of half back. Surely Sidebottom would have helped this? I think the acceptance of this matchup despite the fact it was going against them was odd

3. Tagging Elliot Yeo - It didnt make much sense to me. Buckley was the first person all year to tag him and while it was working in stopping his influence, the reason people dont tag Yeo was all too apparent by half time. Shuey is the more damaging player. Shuey had struggled with the tag two weeks in a row too. The decision to make the change at half time seemed weird to me also. Given the flow of the game it would have made more sense to get Adams to play tighter on Shuey rather then just change all your matchups

4. Use of Jaimes Aish - Guy was on our weakest link in the forward line. The guy you would want to run off. Aish didnt do this. Worst part of all is Bucks just let it continue. It was a missed opportunity here. We got a nil all draw from our worst player for the day in Venables because of this

5. Mason Coxs use - At half time he decided to move Cox up the ground more. While he took more marks, it played into our hands as it meant the next kick was easier to pick off as a mark. Cox got 1 possession but he was bringing the ball to the ground in the first half. Once he moved up the ground McGovern, Schofield and co were alot more happy and comfortable with things. They should have cleared space for Cox in the forward 50, not move Cox to more space

I can think of more myself still. Whether it be Siers weirdly low TOG, Pendlebury not heading down back a bit more to help set up play. Overall though it was a poor performance from Buckley. He made reactionary decisions to quell our influence (swapping tags) rather then to improve his own teams influence (moving De Goey to the midfield). I think he coached a team as if it was losing the game all too often. It was not befitting of a so called coach of the year and it is probably a game Bucks will look back on with a ton of regret

OP is on a slippery slope. When you win a close game all analysis like this does is make a case you should have lost the game. Ultimately that's disrespectful to the Eagles in a what was a great win.

 

[WillieNillie]

OP is on a slippery slope. When you win a close game all analysis like this does is make a case you should have lost the game. Ultimately that's disrespectful to the Eagles in a what was a great win.

Outcoaching your opponent is a skill in itself I would have thought.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Outcoaching your opponent is a skill in itself I would have thought.

Not really relevant to what I said.

If Buckley was as wrong as you suggest the Pies should have won easily. I dont believe he was. The Pies tactic if trying to isolate De Goey deep forward was sound, it hurt us in the SF big time at critical moments.

As for the way Cox was used I just think you underestimate how good the Eagles defense was. Tactics matter, and they needed a path to goal, but it was always going to very hard.

We wouldn't tag Yeo if we played WC, and didn't in the H/A games. It would make even less sense for Buckley to, given they had the dominant midfield in September last year. This was obvious by the GF.
When you have the dominant midfield you go head to head and relish the contest, which to their credit the Pies did.

The Eagles were ultimately superior in other aspects, and the better team. You dont try too hard to fix the bit that isn't broken though.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Theres a good reason nobody talks about it, because coach who gets within a goal on GF day did alot more good than they did bad.

A thread entirely on how poor Buckley was on grand final day has a bad taste about it.

Had the result gone the other way, im sure Simpson had equally as many poor decisions on the day.

Buckley gave Collingwood every chance possible to win the game, how much can a coach actually do in the final 3 minutes of a football game? Paul Roos himself basically said he was powerless late in those Sydney/West Coast games.

 

[mike123]

Sier’s time on ground had been low all year.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

I think in the spectacle that was the closeness of the Grand Final and the many epic moments it had, a key point that was missed was just how poorly Bucks coached during the day itself. Now I have watched the game many many many times and it was probably only the 2nd time I watched it I realised just how many poor decisions Buckley made. Considering he was named coach of the year I think the performance he had on the day deserves more scrutiny then it got. A few key errors were

1. De Goeys time as a deep forward - Fact of the matter is DeGoey spent way too much time as a deep forward. The 3 goals he kicked. 2 came from him being in the midfield and getting onto a receive 60m out from goal and the other one came from him leading running back inside 50 and shrugging a few tackles in open play. Fact is by half time, De Goey had not won a single aerial contest one on one and in all reality he wasnt going too. Schofields strength is his aerial ability. Schofields weakness is tracking his man when he runs up the ground. De Goey needed to spend alot more time up the ground. By half time this was clear as day yet nothing changed during the game. Even in the final throngs of the game with 5 minutes left, De Goey was the deepest forward losing the aerial battles still.

2. Sidebottoms use - Even Adam Simpson admitted. Eagles were worried about when Sidebottom was coming off a half back flank. So much so we put Rioli or Ryan to follow him into the square when he came off the back and only moved Hutchings onto Sidebottom during the next stoppage in play. Question is why the hell did Bucks not put him at half back flank? If he took Hutchings down into our forward line it would have been a net loss for us at the time. Sidebottom was clearly struggling. Buckley mentioned after the game he lamented his teams lack of dare and drive of half back. Surely Sidebottom would have helped this? I think the acceptance of this matchup despite the fact it was going against them was odd

3. Tagging Elliot Yeo - It didnt make much sense to me. Buckley was the first person all year to tag him and while it was working in stopping his influence, the reason people dont tag Yeo was all too apparent by half time. Shuey is the more damaging player. Shuey had struggled with the tag two weeks in a row too. The decision to make the change at half time seemed weird to me also. Given the flow of the game it would have made more sense to get Adams to play tighter on Shuey rather then just change all your matchups

4. Use of Jaimes Aish - Guy was on our weakest link in the forward line. The guy you would want to run off. Aish didnt do this. Worst part of all is Bucks just let it continue. It was a missed opportunity here. We got a nil all draw from our worst player for the day in Venables because of this

5. Mason Coxs use - At half time he decided to move Cox up the ground more. While he took more marks, it played into our hands as it meant the next kick was easier to pick off as a mark. Cox got 1 possession but he was bringing the ball to the ground in the first half. Once he moved up the ground McGovern, Schofield and co were alot more happy and comfortable with things. They should have cleared space for Cox in the forward 50, not move Cox to more space

I can think of more myself still. Whether it be Siers weirdly low TOG, Pendlebury not heading down back a bit more to help set up play. Overall though it was a poor performance from Buckley. He made reactionary decisions to quell our influence (swapping tags) rather then to improve his own teams influence (moving De Goey to the midfield). I think he coached a team as if it was losing the game all too often. It was not befitting of a so called coach of the year and it is probably a game Bucks will look back on with a ton of regret

Bucks and all the players will have to live with what happened after QT in the 2018 GF for the rest of their lives, will be talked about second only to 1970, don't think you need to rub it in any further with threads like this

 

[WillieNillie]

Not really relevant to what I said.

If Buckley was as wrong as you suggest the Pies should have won easily. I dont believe he was. The Pies tactic if trying to isolate De Goey deep forward was sound, it hurt us in the SF big time at critical moments.

As for the way Cox was used I just think you underestimate how good the Eagles defense was. Tactics matter, and they needed a path to goal, but it was always going to very hard.

We wouldn't tag Yeo if we played WC, and didn't in the H/A games. It would make even less sense for Buckley to, given they had the dominant midfield in September last year. This was obvious by the GF.
When you have the dominant midfield you go head to head and relish the contest, which to their credit the Pies did.

The Eagles were ultimately superior in other aspects, and the better team. You dont try too hard to fix the bit that isn't broken though.

Id give the Collingwood players more credit then you are giving though in the sense that the Collingwood players were for the most part extremely good and did nothing wrong. Id almost argue that Collingwood players were probably better then ours in that they took their chances a hell of alot better then we did.

In the end a team wins and loses for a reason. Im of the full belief we won the game in the coaches box. Thats not being a sore winner, thats being honest. Im not going to sit here and give Bucks more credit then he deserves for the sake of it. If people can admit Josh Kennedy beat Tyson Goldsack, then surely we can sit here and admit that Simmo beat Nathan Buckley on the day?

 

[WillieNillie]

Theres a good reason nobody talks about it, because coach who gets within a goal on GF day did alot more good than they did bad.

A thread entirely on how poor Buckley was on grand final day has a bad taste about it.

Had the result gone the other way, im sure Simpson had equally as many poor decisions on the day.

Buckley gave Collingwood every chance possible to win the game, how much can a coach actually do in the final 3 minutes of a football game? Paul Roos himself basically said he was powerless late in those Sydney/West Coast games.

I call bullshit on that. Seems to be a one rule for one and another for everyone else scenario. Jack Darling was one of the best forwards in the league this year. Do you think people would have talked about that or his dropped mark if we went on to lose the game?

Its a very AFL thing. That when you get to the big dance, the notion of a coach can do no more. Reality is when you get to the big dance, a coach should be doing more then ever.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Id give the Collingwood players more credit then you are giving though in the sense that the Collingwood players were for the most part extremely good and did nothing wrong. Id almost argue that Collingwood players were probably better then ours in that they took their chances a hell of alot better then we did.

In the end a team wins and loses for a reason. Im of the full belief we won the game in the coaches box. Thats not being a sore winner, thats being honest. Im not going to sit here and give Bucks more credit then he deserves for the sake of it. If people can admit Josh Kennedy beat Tyson Goldsack, then surely we can sit here and admit that Simmo beat Nathan Buckley on the day?

What I see is you trying to justify the unjustifiable. The OP screams sore winner. That's my perception.

 

[WillieNillie]

What I see is you trying to justify the unjustifiable. The OP screams sore winner. That's my perception.

The OP should analysis of the game itself. It shouldnt matter who analysed it. Whether im a Eagles fan or a Richmond fan is irrelevant.

 

[The Gov]

Mate as a WC supporter let's avoid these OPs, enjoy the win quietly but don't take anything away from Collingwood/their coaching, you could say it was Simpson's coaching that caused us to come out mentally not switched on and concede the first 5 goals.

The pies'll be up again thereabouts next season, looking forward to the rematch

 

[WillieNillie]

Mate as a WC supporter let's avoid these OPs, enjoy the win quietly but don't take anything away from Collingwood/their coaching, you could say it was Simpson's coaching that caused us to come out mentally not switched on and concede the first 5 goals.

The pies'll be up again thereabouts next season, looking forward to the rematch

When did I say they wouldnt? No need to be such soft turncoats about this guys. Attack the post, not the man.

Come back at me with something other then emotive bullcrap

 

[boncer34]

Outcoaching your opponent is a skill in itself I would have thought.

Doesnt sound like Eagles outcoached Buckley. Sounds like he gifted you the win.

 

[PieLebo87]

Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Not a bad performance to almost snag a flag.

 

[WillieNillie]

Doesnt sound like Eagles outcoached Buckley. Sounds like he gifted you the win.

Wouldnt go that far. Shueys great half forced the change. Schofield still killed De Goey deep forward and so on. Our performance did bring on the poor coaching as it does in 100% of football games.

 

[boncer34]

Wouldnt go that far. Shueys great half forced the change. Schofield still killed De Goey deep forward and so on. Our performance did bring on the poor coaching as it does in 100% of football games.

Nope.

OP makes it very clear Buckleys decisions alone won West Coast the flag.

Buckley chose to play DeGoey deep. Buckley chose to play Sidebottom through the middle.
Buckley chose to tag Yeo.
Buckley chose to play Aish forward.
Buckley chose where to put Cox.

Simpson and co just sat back and let Buckley self destruct. Good analysis

 

[WillieNillie]

Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Not a bad performance to almost snag a flag.

Im analysing 1 solitary game, not the fantastic year he had overall. Dont say im calling him a bad coach overall because im not.

Believe it or not, some people can have a bad day at the office. The Grand Final just happened to be that for Buckley. You cant avoid that. You need to own it and improve from it. People who forget their mistakes are the ones who will make them again.

I think Buckley would look at this game and realise he didnt have his best performance.

*, Adam Simpson said so about himself On the Couch. He mentioned in 2015 GF, he realised he was a one trick pony with the web and after that he realised he needed to develop more strings to his coaching bow. He went and did that. In 2015 AFL GF we were outcoached as well. It happens believe it or not. Like a FB beats a FF, a coach will beat another coach

 

[WillieNillie]

Nope.

OP makes it very clear Buckleys decisions alone won West Coast the flag.

Buckley chose to play DeGoey deep. Buckley chose to play Sidebottom through the middle.
Buckley chose to tag Yeo.
Buckley chose to play Aish forward.
Buckley chose where to put Cox.

Simpson and co just sat back and let Buckley self destruct. Good analysis

A bit over the top but if thats the way you want to read it all the power to ya

 

[Spuddigger]

I think in the spectacle that was the closeness of the Grand Final and the many epic moments it had, a key point that was missed was just how poorly Bucks coached during the day itself. Now I have watched the game many many many times and it was probably only the 2nd time I watched it I realised just how many poor decisions Buckley made. Considering he was named coach of the year I think the performance he had on the day deserves more scrutiny then it got. A few key errors were

1. De Goeys time as a deep forward - Fact of the matter is DeGoey spent way too much time as a deep forward. The 3 goals he kicked. 2 came from him being in the midfield and getting onto a receive 60m out from goal and the other one came from him leading running back inside 50 and shrugging a few tackles in open play. Fact is by half time, De Goey had not won a single aerial contest one on one and in all reality he wasnt going too. Schofields strength is his aerial ability. Schofields weakness is tracking his man when he runs up the ground. De Goey needed to spend alot more time up the ground. By half time this was clear as day yet nothing changed during the game. Even in the final throngs of the game with 5 minutes left, De Goey was the deepest forward losing the aerial battles still.

2. Sidebottoms use - Even Adam Simpson admitted. Eagles were worried about when Sidebottom was coming off a half back flank. So much so we put Rioli or Ryan to follow him into the square when he came off the back and only moved Hutchings onto Sidebottom during the next stoppage in play. Question is why the hell did Bucks not put him at half back flank? If he took Hutchings down into our forward line it would have been a net loss for us at the time. Sidebottom was clearly struggling. Buckley mentioned after the game he lamented his teams lack of dare and drive of half back. Surely Sidebottom would have helped this? I think the acceptance of this matchup despite the fact it was going against them was odd

3. Tagging Elliot Yeo - It didnt make much sense to me. Buckley was the first person all year to tag him and while it was working in stopping his influence, the reason people dont tag Yeo was all too apparent by half time. Shuey is the more damaging player. Shuey had struggled with the tag two weeks in a row too. The decision to make the change at half time seemed weird to me also. Given the flow of the game it would have made more sense to get Adams to play tighter on Shuey rather then just change all your matchups

4. Use of Jaimes Aish - Guy was on our weakest link in the forward line. The guy you would want to run off. Aish didnt do this. Worst part of all is Bucks just let it continue. It was a missed opportunity here. We got a nil all draw from our worst player for the day in Venables because of this

5. Mason Coxs use - At half time he decided to move Cox up the ground more. While he took more marks, it played into our hands as it meant the next kick was easier to pick off as a mark. Cox got 1 possession but he was bringing the ball to the ground in the first half. Once he moved up the ground McGovern, Schofield and co were alot more happy and comfortable with things. They should have cleared space for Cox in the forward 50, not move Cox to more space

I can think of more myself still. Whether it be Siers weirdly low TOG, Pendlebury not heading down back a bit more to help set up play. Overall though it was a poor performance from Buckley. He made reactionary decisions to quell our influence (swapping tags) rather then to improve his own teams influence (moving De Goey to the midfield). I think he coached a team as if it was losing the game all too often. It was not befitting of a so called coach of the year and it is probably a game Bucks will look back on with a ton of regret

 

[Dazzler9]

The only decision I question is why did Mayne not go to McGovern a la the QF?

 

[mike123]

I find it a little sad we can’t have a discussion on a coaching performance without all this poo flinging.

 

[mike123]

The only decision I question is why did Mayne not go to McGovern a la the QF?

Because Mayne ruined half of our attacks in the qf.

 

[PieLebo87]

Im analysing 1 solitary game, not the fantastic year he had overall. Dont say im calling him a bad coach overall because im not.

Believe it or not, some people can have a bad day at the office. The Grand Final just happened to be that for Buckley. You cant avoid that. You need to own it and improve from it. People who forget their mistakes are the ones who will make them again.

I think Buckley would look at this game and realise he didnt have his best performance.

****, Adam Simpson said so about himself On the Couch. He mentioned in 2015 GF, he realised he was a one trick pony with the web and after that he realised he needed to develop more strings to his coaching bow. He went and did that. In 2015 AFL GF we were outcoached as well. It happens believe it or not. Like a FB beats a FF, a coach will beat another coach

Yeah, because it’s a valid comment when you lose by 8 goals. Not when you lose by a few points. There’s a difference.

 

[Spuddigger]

The Eagles and Melbourne were licking their chops as they knew Cox and Collingwood couldn,t play like that again. There was no way the Eags were going to let Cox stroll up the middle of the ground with nobody blocking him.