Opinion Commentary & Media III

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RobZombie said:
In 2013 we played exhilarating football and blew leads. Still had a percentage of 119, 6th best for the season. Had we not given up flurries of late goals that percentage probably climbs above Richmond's to 5th best, good enough for a home final against Carlton who were rubbish.

We were crying out for some composure and Dal was exactly the ticket (Tudor arrived at the same time). In Dal's 3 years 2014-16 we lost when leading at 3QT zero times.

The fact Basti couldn't adjust to having better players around him doesn't have to be an indictment on the coaches. We've heard things from in-the-know types about his challenges in adapting to new structures. He's hardly turned back into his pre-NDS self at Brisbane.
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Yeah, we needed to improve on the defensive elements of the game, however, our game plan changed drastically, the style that produced great leads and had narrow losses wasn't the same as we rocked with after 2013. The problem is we chopped and changed the game plan significantly a number of times because we were trying to adopt trends that had already been successful and a lot of clubs were working on overcoming those strengths to combat the better teams that had already mastered playing that way so we were behind on a strategic level constantly. Until now at least, there is nobody successful doing what we are currently doing.

A number of players went from offensive to defensive players but weren't really a serious contender, our brand wasn't good enough beat all the teams that were significantly worse than us. Some really good teams struggled with the way we played but there wasn't enough there, nobody from the outside looking in rated our team at all.
 
Tas said:
A number of players went from offensive to defensive players but weren't really a serious contender, our brand wasn't good enough beat all the teams that were significantly worse than us. Some really good teams struggled with the way we played but there wasn't enough there, nobody from the outside looking in rated our team at all.
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That change from 2013 to 2014 always annoyed me a bit. I couldn't quite shake the feeling that the logical conclusion to our offensive gameplan coming unstuck a few times could be to improve and perfect that attack rather than write off much of what was successful. Felt a bit defeatist to me. I'd have felt differently if that offensive plan was getting us completely opened up all year long but I don't think that was the case. Tweaking and being even more dangerous could have been the answer.
 

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shintemaster said:
Just read it properly and you are correct. Makes much more sense now as I couldn't see how that was possible before. I'd be interested in seeing the breakdown of just our players. Would be really interesting.
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Of our midfield:

Cunnington: 8 kicks/21 handballs
Anderson: 7.5/15.5
Tyson: 9/12
Simpkin: 6/10
LDU: 7.8/8.3
Higgins: 15/18

Ahern: 8/4
Polec: 16/7
Hall: 12/8
Ziebell: 11/5
Dumont: 14/13

And our small/medium defenders:

Wright: 8/11

Williams: 8/6
Macmillan: 14/9
Atley: 12/8
Pittard: 13/8


It's a bit of a mish-mash. Our best user in the back half is the only one not kicking it more, however the figures for the whole backline are probably misleading as we chip it around so much, or just go down the line to a defensive position.

Of the midfielders who are kicking more, only Polec is really damaging (aside from Ahern who hasn't had enough ball to really be relevant here) and he is going at about the same ratio as his last two years at Port. Ziebell is to be expected as he is not a handballing type, but Higgins has clearly transformed from a line-breaker to just a stat whore.

Metres gained would probably be the better measurement.
 
shintemaster said:
That change from 2013 to 2014 always annoyed me a bit. I couldn't quite shake the feeling that the logical conclusion to our offensive gameplan coming unstuck a few times could be to improve and perfect that attack rather than write off much of what was successful. Felt a bit defeatist to me. I'd have felt differently if that offensive plan was getting us completely opened up all year long but I don't think that was the case. Tweaking and being even more dangerous could have been the answer.
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I think it may have if JB hadn't intervened and told Scott we can't bomb out of finals like we did against West Coast in 2012, I think he was exploring ways to be able to stop teams scoring against us heavily and it didn't work because we would go on to bomb out spectacularly from 2 of the next 3 finals series despite being a far more negative team.

When you look at the good sides since 2012/13, they have almost all been aggressive attacking sides, they are just a lot more accountable on the defensive side, they pick when to go, just don't go wandering off into space in the hope we get possession. Bailey Scott isn't in the side because he is a defensive weak link in the side, but he average the same pressure acts as Isaac Smith, more than Wingard, Scully, etc at the Hawks despite much less ToG. It is not that there is anything wrong with Scott, it is just our game plan is so convoluted that if it isn't ultra high pressure all over the park all the time then it just doesn't work well enough and you need consistency to pull it off. Teams like the Swans or Crows of old who were ultra defensive were very consistent across the board defensive teams, they spent a long time recruiting, developing and playing that way it didn't happen over one pre-season. We still can't get it right despite trying for 5 odd years.

To think we were going to grab some offensive players, shove them in our team with out style of play and think it will work out well is some real optimism.
 
shintemaster said:
That change from 2013 to 2014 always annoyed me a bit. I couldn't quite shake the feeling that the logical conclusion to our offensive gameplan coming unstuck a few times could be to improve and perfect that attack rather than write off much of what was successful. Felt a bit defeatist to me. I'd have felt differently if that offensive plan was getting us completely opened up all year long but I don't think that was the case. Tweaking and being even more dangerous could have been the answer.
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Yeah the pedal to the metal stuff was possibly an organic development that was player driven. Not necessarily a coaching grand design, hence the change in game-style in 2014.

I specifically recall an interview with Drew(?) post game 2013 where he was asked about our exhilarating attack from the back half and his response was "I dunno, we just started doing it."

At the time I was pretty surprised at the comments.
 
On those stats, you can see why my man Pauly Ahern is not in the side. His stubborn refusal to over possess is costing him dearly. Needs to become a handball happy stat whore.
 
CarnTheKANGAS said:
It is beyond staggering that the powers that be at the club can't see, don't want to see or don't want to act on the coach. It is indefensible.

What people fail to comprehend is that this problem do not only just recently emerge in 2019, it has plagued him for his whole ******* coaching tenure. It's hilaroously ironic, that the very rule he helped oversee in bringing in is what is resulting in the losses and subsewuent heat being directed towards him. The 666 rule has exposed him for the fraud he is by not allowing him to "always" setup with a spare behind the play and exposes the lack of accountability and competency that our defenders possess in which they are unable to defend one on one.
How Larky did not get called up and given a sustained run at it as soon as Waite was injured last year is staggering..what's even more staggering is he didn't get a single call up.
The list goes on and on, press and Goldstein only to play Campbell and godly while Larky waits, the handling of our club greats, the amount of 100+ pt defeats (primarily against us but also in the for us), the dearth of key backs on our list but not to play them to the point we're still unsure if the remaining key backs can even play. The inflexibility to try new things (players in New positions, drop underperforming players to the point their confidence is shot (Thomas, godly, black) or dropping his favorites) its astounding how deep this list goes yet he isn't called out, and when he was by Kingy, he was shot down immediately. It's as if he is A sacred cow.

NMFC Wake up and smell the roses and act before we see the death of the NMFC.. The conspiracist in me says this is all going to script for a permanent move down south.

Rant done.
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I wholeheartedly agree with your incoherent ramblings. Good job 👍. You’re almost in Arthur Cloke territory.
 

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Thewlis Dish said:
Of our midfield:

Cunnington: 8 kicks/21 handballs
Anderson: 7.5/15.5
Tyson: 9/12
Simpkin: 6/10
LDU: 7.8/8.3
Higgins: 15/18

Ahern: 8/4
Polec: 16/7
Hall: 12/8
Ziebell: 11/5
Dumont: 14/13

And our small/medium defenders:

Wright: 8/11

Williams: 8/6
Macmillan: 14/9
Atley: 12/8
Pittard: 13/8


It's a bit of a mish-mash. Our best user in the back half is the only one not kicking it more, however the figures for the whole backline are probably misleading as we chip it around so much, or just go down the line to a defensive position.

Of the midfielders who are kicking more, only Polec is really damaging (aside from Ahern who hasn't had enough ball to really be relevant here) and he is going at about the same ratio as his last two years at Port. Ziebell is to be expected as he is not a handballing type, but Higgins has clearly transformed from a line-breaker to just a stat whore.

Metres gained would probably be the better measurement.
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Higgins is the glaring anomaly there for mine, more handballs than kicks, I would usually be saying his kicking is excellent and get the ratio right, but recently his disposal has been uncharacteristically horrible, even by hand at times, weird :rolleyes:
 
Thewlis Dish said:
Metres gained would probably be the better measurement.
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I didn't think it was measured in a smart way at the moment - happy to be corrected if that has changed. I was under the impression that too is very flawed and doesn't account particularly well for the successful conclusion to that gain...

Obviously 360 movement in our game makes some of these stats pretty hard to rate objectively. I mean Cunners can handball as far as Kayne Turner can kick for starters. I think gained distance with a set of modifiers on who the ball ends up with and where would be more telling. Still doesn't tell the whole story I guess. Williams I think made a kick on the weekend 50m down to the wing to a 2 on 1 (against us) and managed to land it perfectly under some pressure to roll out of bounds without a free kick against us. That doesn't really look amazing on a stat sheet but it was an exceptionally well thought out and well achieved kick.
 
scottywiper said:
Jordan Lewis says hes only been to tribunal once maybe twice. Hasn't he got the record for most games suspended amongst current players????
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Went to the tribunal as opposed to just accepting the MRP/MRO finding? Once or twice wouldn't be unusual.
 
shintemaster said:
I didn't think it was measured in a smart way at the moment - happy to be corrected if that has changed. I was under the impression that too is very flawed and doesn't account particularly well for the successful conclusion to that gain...

Obviously 360 movement in our game makes some of these stats pretty hard to rate objectively. I mean Cunners can handball as far as Kayne Turner can kick for starters. I think gained distance with a set of modifiers on who the ball ends up with and where would be more telling. Still doesn't tell the whole story I guess. Williams I think made a kick on the weekend 50m down to the wing to a 2 on 1 (against us) and managed to land it perfectly under some pressure to roll out of bounds without a free kick against us. That doesn't really look amazing on a stat sheet but it was an exceptionally well thought out and well achieved kick.
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Yeah, they keep but don't publish things things like effective metres gained, assisted metres gained (how many metres gained by the player you give the ball to - players like Mitchell and Cunnington tend to rate highly in that), metres conceded from turnovers, etc. Its one of those stats where big differences can tell you something about what sort of player someone is, not a contest where you're trying to eke out an extra 20m a game as a main KPI. Like, obviously Cunners at 165m and Higgo at 452m from about 30 disposals each are different kinds of players. And just as obviously, by the eye test, Higgo's 452 metres aren't as damaging this year as last year.

(also Cunners with less than 3 turnovers a game from about 30d/18cp is outrageous).
 
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