Changes for next year, Round 1

[matt_y106]

Scary depth. Nuts to think with a fit list Stack, Baker, Ross, Balta, Chol will all be fighting for the 1 spot with the likes of Naish, RCD, Egg, CCJ unable to get a look in barring significant injury.

Most likely changes for round 1 next year:
Stack in for Ellis
Graham in for Baker
Rance in for god knows, Broad maybe but whoever it is will be incredibly unlucky


B: Grimes Astbury Vlaustin
HB: Houli Rance Short
C: Caddy Prestia Edwards
HF: Bolton Riewoldt Lambo
F: Rioli Lynch Castagna
FOL: Soldo Dusty Cotch
INT: Nank Graham Pickett Stack
EMG: Ross Baker KMac Chol

It’s an embarrassment of riches.

Rance in for Short 100%


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[SplintWhisky]

102 goals 110 behinds is what we conceded in our 12 game winning streak post bye. So 8.75 goals and 9.16 behinds. Teams averaged 61 points against us in that period when the backline was together and settled the whole way I think.

177 goals 131 behinds is what we scored. 14.75 goals and more or less 11 behinds. We averaged 99 points for to show scoring conditions were not especially difficult on the whole.

In 2018 with Rance in the backline in 24 matches teams scored 256.199 against us, about 72 points on average.

In 2017 with Rance there the team averaged conceding similar in the low 70's.
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Where I am going with this is to ask has the structure of the backline worked better in 2019 without Rance once it was fully stocked from round 15 onwards? And if so, why would that be?

I personally don't think it has to do with Rance the player. I think the issue is Rance the backline general, where it might have been a little bit all about him. So my submission would be that whoever was leading that backline in Rance's absence, presumably Astbury, should continue to do so. And Rance should play a role really no more prominent in the structure and chain of command than Vlastuin or Grimes did this year.

But in for me Rance(of course) Stack(of course) and any of Graham, Ross, CCJ, Balta, Naish, and any ready made recruit/s.

Out Ellis, and after that it gets tougher.

Curve ball trade deal: Only if the players are comfortable with this...go to GCS and offer Rance, Macintosh, maybe even Markov or Moore if they want them, along with Ellis of course. The immediate influx of hardened solid senior players and leadership is what they desperately need. And the fact all of those players come from one successful club should be helpful to them as well. In return we want the bloke who won the GF sprint yesterday - King, and/or another future gun. Use draft picks to equalise the deal.

Rance should theoretically love it, he is just what they need, high profile, high quality, leadership and he has the perfect beach boy looks to suit the Gold Coast, and can get a huge pay packet. Macintosh can get a decent wedge as well.

We benefit by starting to stagger the transition between Rance, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Astbury, Edwards, Martin, Houli and the next group of quality players who lead the team. We clear some nice cap space to help with retention of all our good youngsters.

Gold Coast benefit from getting something meaningful into their club for the inevitable loss of one of these young guns, not just more high end draft picks.

The young gun benefits from coming to a brilliant club and fitting comfortably into the overall plan for us.

You are forgetting that the defence is not the only reason for sides being scored against. Basically you are saying an F1 car is faster around Spa than a Lamborghini, and that is solely to do with the engine. That is not true it is also the Chassis and Aero packages as well as the tires. In this case it is worth remembering that during those two seasons there was only 2 attacking talls in Jack and Nank. If we were losing we couldn't clear basically the kickout range as the talls were ineffective. Now we run with 2 Rucks, Lynch and Jack we seem to avoid getting stuck in our back half.

 

[Madtiger2006]

What’s with Baker and Short not in anyone’s sides? With Ellis out and Rance in the most replaceable player is Broad.

 

[Grrr]

4 definite in's - Rance, Pickett, Stack & Ross. Would love to see Balta and RCD in also.

Ellis, then in the firing line and all very still, Broad, Short, Baker, even Graham. If there were some noses out of joint this year, wait til next.

 

[strauchy]

Need to play Ross as the next emerging young mid..also RCD at some point as we need the next generation of mids coming through. This will help push Cotchin forward and Also Martin at times..

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Jack Graham will be named 1st every week.

 

[OhDustinMartin]

2020: The Year of the Hypen(s)

Watch CCJ make a huge leap. Tall, athletic, a great mark, versatile and a good kick. If RCD continues on his form from the VFL Granny, look out! Almost Fyfe-like he was, and he'll get even better. Remember how it took Fyfe a while to get going. RCD could be anything. And DES at times looks like Bachar, with a really creative kick, composure and ability to run all day.

 

[tropicaltiger]

4 definite in's - Rance, Pickett, Stack & Ross. Would love to see Balta and RCD in also.

Ellis, then in the firing line and all very still, Broad, Short, Baker, even Graham. If there were some noses out of joint this year, wait til next.

Agree Pickett, Stack, Ross, Broad, Macca, Short, Baker, Graham, Balta and RCD = 10 and that dosen't include chol or naish or newbies fighting for 3 or 4 spots.

 

[Stars align]

With the GOAT coming back next year and Vlastuin regularly playing the +1, I think maybe we could move nick into ellis spot as a defensive wingman and caddy becomes the offensive wingman.. Think it would be a good spot for nick as he uses the ball beautifuly, is strong over head for the get out kick and can still be that intercept mark in defence from the wing
[/Q goes into the middle

Agree Pickett, Stack, Ross, Broad, Short, Baker, Graham, Balta and RCD = 9 and that dosen't include chol or naish or newbies fighting for 3 or 4 spots.

maybe rance goes into the middle

 

[peternorth]

Maybe broad does miss out

 

[tropicaltiger]

Jack Graham will be named 1st every week.

I've said it before, and it ain't gunna be popular...

Both Port Power and Camry Crows will be watching Jack Graham next year with bated breath and saliva dripping out. Will be very very high on their shopping lists and why not?

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I've said it before, and it ain't gunna be popular...

Both Port Power and Camry Crows will be watching Jack Graham next year with bated breath and saliva dripping out. Will be very very high on their shopping lists and why not?

It will be somewhat bearable next year after we go B2B...then we can talk!

 

[Grrr]

Maybe broad does miss out

Straight swap for Rance.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You are forgetting that the defence is not the only reason for sides being scored against. Basically you are saying an F1 car is faster around Spa than a Lamborghini, and that is solely to do with the engine. That is not true it is also the Chassis and Aero packages as well as the tires. In this case it is worth remembering that during those two seasons there was only 2 attacking talls in Jack and Nank. If we were losing we couldn't clear basically the kickout range as the talls were ineffective. Now we run with 2 Rucks, Lynch and Jack we seem to avoid getting stuck in our back half.

You are right, and wrong! You are correct about the rucks and extra tall forward I think, this is a good help to the backline, or seems to be. You are incorrect in saying I forget about this....I mentioned this very issue in a subsequent post later on in the thread. It is obvious the backline at any given time is not the sole determinant of the opposition team’s score and the rest of the team plays a key role in overall defensive effectiveness as well.

Nevertheless, my point stands, the backline/team has proven it could function at a very high level with Rance missing, at least when all other backmen were available. This brings to my mind something that was not previously imaginable, that Rance could be tradeable. I stick to my previously argued points, the deal would need to be very enticing, as in you would only do it to get someone like Ben King or a young player on that type of level to the club, Rance would need to find it appealing(perhaps unlikely but I would in his shoes) and I would add you also would need extra tall defensive cover to be traded in, Keefe, Casboult, someone of that ilk. As I have posted before the deal is highly unlikely. There are reasons the club needs to start thinking along these lines though...

 

[Michaels]

Not a bad spot to be in list wise!

IMO we can now be extremely strategic with who we play and when all during the season in 2020.

2019 helped us unearth some great players who we know can do the job for us at any given moment.

So we can essentially player manage to ensure we keep everyone fresh for the back half of the year.

Obviously injuries will occur, but list wise we are in a great spot to time our run.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

You are right, and wrong! You are correct about the rucks and extra tall forward I think, this is a good help to the backline, or seems to be. You are incorrect in saying I forget about this....I mentioned this very issue in a subsequent post later on in the thread. It is obvious the backline at any given time is not the sole determinant of the opposition team’s score and the rest of the team plays a key role in overall defensive effectiveness as well.

Nevertheless, my point stands, the backline/team has proven it could function at a very high level with Rance missing, at least when all other backmen were available. This brings to my mind something that was not previously imaginable, that Rance could be tradeable. I stick to my previously argued points, the deal would need to be very enticing, as in you would only do it to get someone like Ben King or a young player on that type of level to the club, Rance would need to find it appealing(perhaps unlikely but I would in his shoes) and I would add you also would need extra tall defensive cover to be traded in, Keefe, Casboult, someone of that ilk. As I have posted before the deal is highly unlikely. There are reasons the club needs to start thinking along these lines though...

Interesting that our Back Defensive six held up with Rance's absence! And held up well enough to carry us all the way to the Finals!
Doing the old switch-a-roo would the Forward six have the same resilience if either JR8 or Cut Lunch were absent?!? And which of the players we currently have could step up to cover either of their absences as successfully as we have done with Rance!...I'm not confident we could...I'd think the Backs would be working harder to keep our patched up Forwards in the game!
Makes me think we are a more defensive side than offensive and that our Finals success owes more to our strong backs than forwards. If that being the case maybe our recruiting ought to be skewed a tad more to looking for replacements when Astbury, Houli, Rance move on...?!?

 

[Calcium Man]

What’s with Baker and Short not in anyone’s sides? With Ellis out and Rance in the most replaceable player is Broad.

Because Broad is versatile. He, Rance and Grimes can play tall or small, which means they can cover for each other with limited issues. Baker and Short can only play small and when forced onto tall blokes are easily outmarked. Henderson, who shouldn’t be on an AFL field anymore, outmarked both with ease in the PF.

We might lose a little bit of drive, but Rance can do that and basically run free as a 3rd man up everywhere and his kicking is usually pretty good.

Stack is also already better than both of them.

 

[Grrr]

Because Broad is versatile. He, Rance and Grimes can play tall or small, which means they can cover for each other with limited issues. Baker and Short can only play small and when forced onto tall blokes are easily outmarked. Henderson, who shouldn’t be on an AFL field anymore, outmarked both with ease in the PF.

We might lose a little bit of drive, but Rance can do that and basically run free as a 3rd man up everywhere and his kicking is usually pretty good.

Stack is also already better than both of them.

But Broad gives us very little rebound, as good as he is defensively. Rance is better defensively and far better offensively. Alternatively Rance could even play as a HB, free him up and let him enjoy his football. He is so good at ground level he could almost take Shorts place. But then Stack could also take Shorts place... the luxury.

 

[Calcium Man]

But Broad gives us very little rebound, as good as he is defensively. Rance is better defensively and far better offensively. Alternatively Rance could even play as a HB, free him up and let him enjoy his football. He is so good at ground level he could almost take Shorts place. But then Stack could also take Shorts place... the luxury.

That’s my point, Rance can easily fill Shorts role or at worst we move Vlas into that role and Rance plays Vlas’ role.

The versatility of Broad is more important than Shorts kicking (which isn’t as amazing as it seems).

Rance will have a field day playing as a roaming defender with Broad, Grimes and Astbury covering for him. It’s basically like Dusty forward/mid... he creates and others cover defensively.

 

[Bazzar]

Absolutely,,, 100% agree,, good thing back then was all the players ( both teams)
Would have a beer afterwards, and patch up there differences,, the umpires were
There as well,, ,,, it was brutal back then,,, especially in the Wednesday league
In the late 20s early 30s,,
Teams like the railway workers,,,, the wharfies,,,, the police and firies,, the cabbies
All played against each other, and use to belt the living suitcases out of each other
Fun times lol

Totally dissagre about having the beers afterwards, especially from the start of the depression to Jack Dyers final time, they hated and despised each other on and off the ground.
I doubt Jack Dyer would have stepped into an opposition sides room once after a game for a beer.

 

[Grrr]

That’s my point, Rance can easily fill Shorts role or at worst we move Vlas into that role and Rance plays Vlas’ role.

The versatility of Broad is more important than Shorts kicking (which isn’t as amazing as it seems).

Rance will have a field day playing as a roaming defender with Broad, Grimes and Astbury covering for him. It’s basically like Dusty forward/mid... he creates and others cover defensively.

perhaps, but I wish Broad would get more of it, although he isn't that good with it. Adding Stack and Rance for Broad and Short would be a bigger win I think.

 

[dustysnecktattoo]

In - deledio

 

[Hounddd]

No chance Broad makes way for Rance. GOAT comes in for Short, and Floss takes Short's role. Now hear me out...

Floss' foot skills and decision making are high end quality and he's 10x the defender Short is. We don't lose much in the way of offensive drive from the backline, but we gain so much in more in the way of defending and real time flexibility. Imagine GOAT playing Floss' current role, and having the ability to mix and match Gastro, Optimus, **** and GOAT to suit match ups.

Add to it, Rance's speed and foot skills aren't exactly poor. I'd go as far as saying it would be the best backline I've ever seen. You've got the 3 genuine defensive minded rocks with Dave, Grimes and Broad, then Rance and Floss floating in between - both of which are more than capable offensively.

Through there, you can throw in Houli/Baker/Short/Stack and you've got one hell of a dynamic backline.

It would be taking the absolute piss.

 

[guruisatiger]

Totally dissagre about having the beers afterwards, especially from the start of the depression to Jack Dyers final time, they hated and despised each other on and off the ground.
I doubt Jack Dyer would have stepped into an opposition sides room once after a game for a beer.

That's coming straight from Jack dyers mouth
Its true they all did it back then

 

[Bazzar]

That's coming straight from Jack dyers mouth
Its true they all did it back then

Where from?