Brexit - The UK referendum on leaving the EU - Reneging, reshmeging!

[The Warlord]

Pitt the younger
The Iron Duke
Disraeli (Corbyn's favourite)

View attachment 767167

Boris

Lord North more like it.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Lord North more like it.

I already said that.
And you forgot Chamberlain.

 

[Tiger08]

Would be Boris deal or stay.

Argument is previous vote never actually spelled out what leaving would look like.

Not sure that makes sense. The decision to leave has been made. A second referendum is what gives the public a chance to vote on how leaving is done. That sounds fair.

Otherwise when does the public get a chance to vote for or against the No Deal alternative?

 

[The Warlord]

Not sure that makes sense. The decision to leave has been made. A second referendum is what gives the public a chance to vote on how leaving is done. That sounds fair.

Otherwise when does the public get a chance to vote for or against the No Deal alternative?

It would have been the sensible way to do it but way too much blood in the water, especially given how blatantly Leave lied about what voting for them meant.

 

[Underarm]

Not sure that makes sense. The decision to leave has been made. A second referendum is what gives the public a chance to vote on how leaving is done. That sounds fair.

Otherwise when does the public get a chance to vote for or against the No Deal alternative?

No deal has no benefits over Boris or May's deal. We don't need a refferrendum to figure that out.

 

[MrKK]

True, but the longer it goes the more MPs will work it the deal is worse than May's and could well be a Trojan horse to no deal anyway.

And when will the vote be?

Pretty bloody soon I reckon, particularly if EU reject extension. I genuinely don't know if they will or not.

Would be Boris deal or stay.

Argument is previous vote never actually spelled out what leaving would look like.

So a second referendum that effectively splits the vote of the side that won the first one? I'm sure that will be well received.

 

[ChappyUK]

There is a deal on the table so I don't think the EU or at least one member maybe Macron with veto.

This then puts the pressure back on Parliament to pass Boris' plan as voting against it will be assuring a no-deal.

 

[The Warlord]

Pretty bloody soon I reckon, particularly if EU reject extension. I genuinely don't know if they will or not.

I don't know either, but suspect they'll grant one of some sort.

So a second referendum that effectively splits the vote of the side that won the first one? I'm sure that will be well received.

Not sure what this means ...

 

[The Warlord]

There is a deal on the table so I don't think the EU or at least one member maybe Macron with veto.

This then puts the pressure back on Parliament to pass Boris' plan as voting against it will be assuring a no-deal.

Pass it with a confirmatory referendum would seem to be the most viable option.

 

[Tiger08]

Amazing to think how much power every other European country has over the UK right now..

Just shows the outrageous loss of sovereignty from signing up to the EU in the first place.

 

[MrKK]

Not sure what this means ...

Leavers who don't want the Boris deal would be disenfranchised, effectively splitting the original Leave vote while Remainers have the same choice as before.

 

[The Warlord]

Leavers who don't want the Boris deal would be disenfranchised, effectively splitting the original Leave vote while Remainers have the same choice as before.

This is the problem with Leave never actually defining what it meant.

 

[MrKK]

This is the problem with Leave never actually defining what it meant.

Absolutely. I'm with Peter Hitchens' view that the referendum was a terrible idea and would lead to exactly the constitutional crisis they're having if Leave won.

Having said that, if there is to be a second referendum from here then it has to be between different Leave options.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Amazing to think how much power every other European country has over the UK right now..

Just shows the outrageous loss of sovereignty from signing up to the EU in the first place.

Given the UK had an effective veto on any EU laws it didn't like for years, how was UK sovereignty compromised?

 

[Father Jack]

Absolutely. I'm with Peter Hitchens' view that the referendum was a terrible idea and would lead to exactly the constitutional crisis they're having if Leave won.

Having said that, if there is to be a second referendum from here then it has to be between different Leave options.

Of course it doesn't have to be. Why would it?

 

[MrKK]

Of course it doesn't have to be. Why would it?

I meant it had to be to have any sort of general acceptance by the public. Why should Remain be an option? It already was, with the force of the 3 major parties campaigning for it, and was defeated.

I shudder to think of the reaction if there was a Remain v Boris deal referendum and Remain won. It would make the Remain March yesterday look like the teddy bear's picnic.

Referendum 1
Would you like A or B?
B

Referendum 2
OK, there are different versions of B. Would you like A, or one specific version of B?
What? I already told you I didn't want A.

 

[Visions]

There is a deal on the table so I don't think the EU or at least one member maybe Macron with veto.

This then puts the pressure back on Parliament to pass Boris' plan as voting against it will be assuring a no-deal.

I think that the EU will grant an extension but not the Jan 31, 2020 everyone is expecting but a shorter one, another 6 weeks or so into mid December. That way it will give the indication to the Brits, we understand you don’t want a no deal but that’s enough time to accept and implement the current deal.

Think that will be enough to get pollies to act. Because if they decide to knock it back, then there will be another election called (if Labour don’t back one, then they will be seen as hypocrites and cowardly after all their bluster the last few years), Conservatives will come back with a more favourable parliament and will have a better chance of getting a no deal Brexit through if they wanted.

For what it’s worth, I think they will pass the current deal in a vote in the next day or two anyway.

 

[The Warlord]

I meant it had to be to have any sort of general acceptance by the public. Why should Remain be an option? It already was, with the force of the 3 major parties campaigning for it, and was defeated.

I shudder to think of the reaction if there was a Remain v Boris deal referendum and Remain won. It would make the Remain March yesterday look like the teddy bear's picnic.

Referendum 1
Would you like A or B?
B

Referendum 2
OK, there are different versions of B. Would you like A, or one specific version of B?
What? I already told you I didn't want A.

Remain would win according to the polls. Yes, the polls I know.

It's worth recalling there's been two PMs and an election since that vote.

Things have changed greatly.

 

[The Warlord]

I think that the EU will grant an extension but not the Jan 31, 2020 everyone is expecting but a shorter one, another 6 weeks or so into mid December. That way it will give the indication to the Brits, we understand you don’t want a no deal but that’s enough time to accept and implement the current deal.

Think that will be enough to get pollies to act. Because if they decide to knock it back, then there will be another election called (if Labour don’t back one, then they will be seen as hypocrites and cowardly after all their bluster the last few years), Conservatives will come back with a more favourable parliament and will have a better chance of getting a no deal Brexit through if they wanted.

For what it’s worth, I think they will pass the current deal in a vote in the next day or two anyway.

It could we'll pass, it was bloody close this time,but I reckon the Labor rebels will decrease in number between Saturday and whenever the vote is as they work out its a camouflaged no-deal vehicle.

There's also Bercow to consider, he may well stymie it.

Who knows?

 

[MrKK]

Remain would win according to the polls. Yes, the polls I know.

It's worth recalling there's been two PMs and an election since that vote.

Things have changed greatly.

What chance the EU would even agree to an extension for long enough to run a referendum and implement the result? It would require an extension now, then an election with a Labour majority returned (or coalition with LD), then another extension to arrange the referendum. That's a lot of things that need to align.

 

[The Warlord]

What chance the EU would even agree to an extension for long enough to run a referendum and implement the result? It would require an extension now, then an election with a Labour majority returned (or coalition with LD), then another extension to arrange the referendum. That's a lot of things that need to align.

Merkel's people floating a long extension if it doesn't go through next time up.

Referendum could be arranged relatively quickly.

Who knows though. Numbers are so tight predictions are just guesswork.

Only sure thing is that if it weren't for Johnson's ambition Britain would have left with a deal months ago.

 

[NSWCROW]

Not quite yet but * me , that's a cracking cartoon

 

[Father Jack]

I meant it had to be to have any sort of general acceptance by the public. Why should Remain be an option? It already was, with the force of the 3 major parties campaigning for it, and was defeated.

I shudder to think of the reaction if there was a Remain v Boris deal referendum and Remain won. It would make the Remain March yesterday look like the teddy bear's picnic.

Referendum 1
Would you like A or B?
B

Referendum 2
OK, there are different versions of B. Would you like A, or one specific version of B?
What? I already told you I didn't want A.

Well, considering that option A was real and an actual choice and option B in 2016 was a heady mixture of magic beans and unicorn s**t, I think that yes, option A needs to get another go.

 

[Visions]

It could we'll pass, it was bloody close this time,but I reckon the Labor rebels will decrease in number between Saturday and whenever the vote is as they work out its a camouflaged no-deal vehicle.

There's also Bercow to consider, he may well stymie it.

Who knows?

But that's what yesterdays vote has basically voided, the no deal.

Read somewhere that at least 10 (including 3 Labour pollies) who voted for the Letwin amendment have already stated they will vote for Johnson's deal. That already brings it into the majority. Of course there's those that abstained to take into account. Will be close but I think it will get over the line.

Now's the time to pounce and accept the deal, because in the long game Johnson gets stronger, not weaker.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I meant it had to be to have any sort of general acceptance by the public. Why should Remain be an option? It already was, with the force of the 3 major parties campaigning for it, and was defeated.

I shudder to think of the reaction if there was a Remain v Boris deal referendum and Remain won. It would make the Remain March yesterday look like the teddy bear's picnic.

Referendum 1
Would you like A or B?
B

Referendum 2
OK, there are different versions of B. Would you like A, or one specific version of B?
What? I already told you I didn't want A.

Spam email
me - delete
computer - are you sure you wish to delete this?