Hogan in the 80's

[THRILLHO]

It wasn't just Hogan that got a monster push and was kept on top for a long time. The legendary Honky Tonk Man held the Intercontinental Title for 18 months straight, even though if anything he was worse than Hogan. The reason? The fans truly hated him, and paid money to hopefully see him get destroyed. That's a great heel.

Razor Ramon revolutionised wrestling much more than he's given credit for. And not all for the better. He, if not invented, certainly popularised the "cool heel" persona and made it cool for the audience to cheer the heel rather than boo him. Now, audiences identify better with the heels, as they're cooler, rather than with the faces.

As much as I loved Hollywood Rock, he was essentially just a face that acted arrogantly and paid out on the audience. He wasn't a heel.

Hogan was a very limited worker, but he looked great, he had a ton of charisma, the WWF style was nowhere near as challenging as the NWA (which is also why even at his peak Hogan couldn't draw a dime in the Carolinas), his matches were kept short, and he won clean every time. It's not that hard to do, it's just promoters don't have the patience or vision to do it now. A big reason why I don't watch anymore.

That's why I've got a lot of time for ECW. They weren't shy in building a feud and really stoking the fire for 6-12 months before the eventual payoff.

Go and watch that first Sabu vs. Tazz match. The crowd is rabid (even more so than a typical ECW crowd ) because the build was huge. Dreamer and Raven went at it for THREE years as well.

The closest I can think of in the WWE in the past decade was Austin and Angle feuding for the WWF belt during the invasion angle and Austin getting himself intentionally disqualified at two (maybe three) consecutive PPVs. The heat for Austin was immense and everyone was behind Angle. He was one of the most over faces in the company. Too bad they squandered that by having him illogically join the Alliance and then, in the main match, rejoin the WWF.

 

[Partridge]

Razor Ramon revolutionised wrestling much more than he's given credit for. And not all for the better. He, if not invented, certainly popularised the "cool heel" persona and made it cool for the audience to cheer the heel rather than boo him. Now, audiences identify better with the heels, as they're cooler, rather than with the faces.

As much as I loved Hollywood Rock, he was essentially just a face that acted arrogantly and paid out on the audience. He wasn't a heel.

Yep, can't argue with that. I've always hated the cool heel. Completely upsets the balance of what a heel is there for. There are of course some wrestlers that the fans prefer as heels - Flair and Michaels are two examples - but that's a big difference to being some cool knob who doesn't sell anything. You can't have good matches if it's all one way.

That's why I've got a lot of time for ECW. They weren't shy in building a feud and really stoking the fire for 6-12 months before the eventual payoff.

Go and watch that first Sabu vs. Tazz match. The crowd is rabid (even more so than a typical ECW crowd ) because the build was huge. Dreamer and Raven went at it for THREE years as well.

The closest I can think of in the WWE in the past decade was Austin and Angle feuding for the WWF belt during the invasion angle and Austin getting himself intentionally disqualified at two (maybe three) consecutive PPVs. The heat for Austin was immense and everyone was behind Angle. He was one of the most over faces in the company. Too bad they squandered that by having him illogically join the Alliance and then, in the main match, rejoin the WWF.

Yep, it's one thing ECW did really well I thought. As long as the talent can sustain the feud until the payoff match, the longer the better. Less can sometimes be a lot more.

I'll offer another relatively recent feud that had MONSTER heat and would've been great if not for the ending - the Angle / HHH / Stephanie angle from mid-2000. Had an excellent buildup over many months, the crowd were super into it, and everything was ready for Angle (with Stephanie) to go over, then HHH to chase them. But bignose obviously wouldn't put anyone over, not then, not now (not ever really), and a great chance was lost.

 

[Gorry]

Just had a quick scan through and seriously.... Two pages on Hogan in the 80's and not one mention of Piper??

 

[NitroFan]

Triple H was an upper mid card for most of it. He had his eventual main event push when Austin got injured later 2000.

And he really only got his push to upper mid after WrestleMania of that year when he joined the Corporation.

wrestlemania of 2000?

he only got his "upper mid" push after the wrestlemania that he mainevented and retained the world title at?

 

[Kong]

1999*.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

I didn't even like Hogan back then. Was far more into the likes of Ricky Steamboat, Roddy Pipper, Brutus etc

I found Hogan/Giant matches very dull.

He was just marketed very well and had a look that most others wrestlers didn't come close to in the fitness stakes at that stage.

 

[Interceptor]

Hogan claims he "almost" joined Metallica

http://www.nme.com/news/metallica/61668

 

[Douche Canoe]

To be honest, I think it was a different era and I think it was the perfect era for promoting vitamins, prayers, and flag waving. Admittedly behind the scenes this was coke, hookers, and a small veterinarian's supply of horse roids ...

Still, Kermit the Frog wasn't much of a role model. I mean, he was a frog. Thundercats ...? Lion-o is a half naked ginge. Turtles? They're turtles. If you're a parent and your choice of role model for a child is an aquatic creature, a half naked ginge with a scimitar, and a roided up mustachioed baldy in yellow spandex ... I'm going for the baldy.

 

[TheGhostOfJohnBelushi]

To be honest, I think it was a different era and I think it was the perfect era for promoting vitamins, prayers, and flag waving. Admittedly behind the scenes this was coke, hookers, and a small veterinarian's supply of horse roids ...

Still, Kermit the Frog wasn't much of a role model. I mean, he was a frog. Thundercats ...? Lion-o is a half naked ginge. Turtles? They're turtles. If you're a parent and your choice of role model for a child is an aquatic creature, a half naked ginge with a scimitar, and a roided up mustachioed baldy in yellow spandex ... I'm going for the baldy.

You're a douche.

 

[Partridge]

I didn't even like Hogan back then. Was far more into the likes of Ricky Steamboat, Roddy Pipper, Brutus etc

I found Hogan/Giant matches very dull.

He was just marketed very well and had a look that most others wrestlers didn't come close to in the fitness stakes at that stage.

They absolutely were. Hideous. Didn't help that Andre had lost all mobility due to his acromegaly. Then you flipped over to the NWA and saw Flair v Sting, or Flair v Steamboat. Just a slight difference in standard and effort.

 

[Partridge]

Hogan claims he "almost" joined Metallica

http://www.nme.com/news/metallica/61668

Hogan is one of the great purveyors of complete bullshit with a microphone in hand. He defines the wrestler who genuinely believes his own character.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Hogan is one of the great purveyors of complete bullshit with a microphone in hand. He defines the wrestler who genuinely believes his own character.

I heard an interview he did on SEN once with Dermie; it was like the irresistible ego meeting the immovable bullshit.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I heard an interview he did on SEN once with Dermie; it was like the irresistible ego meeting the immovable bullshit.

ok, now what about hogan?

 

[NitroFan]

on the hogan-o-meter that's not so bad.

almost certainly total horeshit, but at least its not instantly irrefutably dissprovable like 90% of everything else he says.

and at least it gives us the mental image of hogan on stage with metallica, which is full of win.

i do wonder if he knows hes bullshitting or if he is legitimately delusional and beleives the thnigs he says.

 

[NitroFan]

They absolutely were. Hideous. Didn't help that Andre had lost all mobility due to his acromegaly. Then you flipped over to the NWA and saw Flair v Sting, or Flair v Steamboat. Just a slight difference in standard and effort.

that late 80's early 90's NWA/WCW is one of my favourite periods of wrestling, one of the best in-ring products ever. it doesnt get anywhere near the attention it deserves, including by "smart" and older fans.

 

[raskolnikov]

You weren't a wrestling fan unless you were a Hulkamaniac in the 80's.

I hated Hulk Hogan in the 80s. And I was under 18. He was just so one dimensional. I hated the quivering of his body when his opponent had him down and then the stupid leg drop to finish the match. Also the fact that he stole "Real American" off my heros the US Express (Rotundo and Windham) whom the song was really written for.

 

[Partridge]

that late 80's early 90's NWA/WCW is one of my favourite periods of wrestling, one of the best in-ring products ever. it doesnt get anywhere near the attention it deserves, including by "smart" and older fans.

Good call. That's when I first got exposed to it too. You had Flair, Funk, Sting, The Steiners, The Midnight Express, Muta, Barry Windham, Brian Pillman, loads of inring talent, and they produced some great stuff.

If you get a chance check out Jim Cornette's book of that era, absolutely fascinating.

 

[Blessed]

LThe biggest PPV that WCW did during their big run in 1996-1998 was Starrcade 97 with Sting v Hogan. The reason? They waited an entire year to have that match. They then of course screwed it all up by not having Sting go over, but that's another discussion.

You mean Sting should have joined NWA. Would have been good.

Wrestling died a bit when Sting beat Hogan in that title and lost to Randy Savage the next week.

Hogan gave the crowd what they wanted.

Pretty simple.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

that late 80's early 90's NWA/WCW is one of my favourite periods of wrestling, one of the best in-ring products ever. it doesnt get anywhere near the attention it deserves, including by "smart" and older fans.

Easily my favourite wrestling time and place is NWA mid 80s to early 90s. Only problem was the place was going to hell, not due to the work of the wrestlers which was top notch but due to the most awful mismanagement possible.

As Partridge notes, the Jim Cornette book is incredible. Being obsessive-compulsive he has notes on EVERY single date the Midnight Express wrestled including the gate receipts and it's amazing to watch Crockett Promotions/WCW go down the gurgler due to Jim Herd's complete misunderstanding of his core market.

On and on the Andre-Hogan matches, yep they sucked. Amazingly though they were absolutely huge box office and ratings draws - shows how important build up is in terms of doing business. That the WWF stretched the truth (Andre has been slammed plenty of times and Hogan had already done it, Andre had done clean jobs to a number of guys) didn't seem to hurt the sell at all.

 

[Freomaniac]

that late 80's early 90's NWA/WCW is one of my favourite periods of wrestling, one of the best in-ring products ever. it doesnt get anywhere near the attention it deserves, including by "smart" and older fans.

Between 1988-1993, Ted Turners 1st 5 years of owning NWA/WCW, th company lost 6 million (American) Dollars a year despite getting decent PPV buyrates (they were averaging 120,000 PPV buys). They were crap at house shows.

They had some good high lights in that dark Period. Sting and Luger were being established. Flair, Steamboat and Rude were having decent technical matches. Vader had an Awesome title run in 1993 until he lost to Flair in that years starcade.

 

[Freomaniac]

Good call. That's when I first got exposed to it too. You had Flair, Funk, Sting, The Steiners, The Midnight Express, Muta, Barry Windham, Brian Pillman, loads of inring talent, and they produced some great stuff.

If you get a chance check out Jim Cornette's book of that era, absolutely fascinating.

Many People say Sting is th Greatest Wrestler not to join WWF/E and its easy to see why. Great Muta and Jushin Liger are up there as well.

Great Muta was something of a brilliant Wrestler. I love his feud with Sting in 1989. I have watched both the Halloween Havoc and starcade match they had that year.

Seeing Great Muta wrestle showed that both Japan and Mexico were year in front of Wrestling in the US. Hence Eric Bischoff brought in a Lot of international talent in the mid 1990s to help "Modernize" WCW.

 

[Freomaniac]

back on the topic. Hogan was always defined by his 1st WWF/E title run which lasted 4 years.

He faced many Monster heel wrestlers: Big John Studd, King Kong Bundy, Andre the Giant, Kamala, Killer Kahn, One Man Gang/Akeem, Big Boss Man to Name a few.

 

[NitroFan]

Many People say Sting is th Greatest Wrestler not to join WWF/E and its easy to see why. Great Muta and Jushin Liger are up there as well.

if we're going to include international wrestlers in that old debate then sting doesn't even get a look in.

i think muta is a bit overrated probably due to his wcw exposure and how different he was to anything in mainstream us at the time. he was good, but he wasn't even the best njpw heavyweight of his era. he would probably be the most common japanese name (possibly behind liger, maybe ultimo, who i think falls into this same category and maybe tiger mask, who was rubbish and is so absurdly overrated its ridiculous) you would see listed on a greatest wrestlers list on a forum like this which i think is way off the mark.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Why was this guy so massive?

Was it simply that Americans were more patriotic in the 1980s, so they lapped it up?
Were the audiences even "dumber" than they are right now?

Right now, all I ever hear is wrestling fans paying out "Super Cena", yet Hogan had an even better record. Wasn't he undefeated for like a year or two straight?

Even The Rock and Austin were regularly getting done over. With Austin, he was always fighting a losing battle, whereas Hogan seemed to just "hulk up" or whatever it was and become invincible, similarly to Cena now.

Why the difference?

From what I've read, 80s wrestling is almost unrecognisable to today. Star wrestlers virtually never wrestled one another outside PPVs (which there were less of) and periodic "Saturday Night's Main Event" specials in the WWF and "Clash of the Champions" specials in NWA/WCW. Weekly shows were short, and the matches name vs jobber were done quickly. Hogan didn't wrestle on TV often and the stories for everyone moved far, far slower. There was less opportunity and reason to get shitty over Hulk Hogan. Also, John Cena came after what were easily WWE's best years where they tried a heap of new and cool stuff. Once the 21st century audience worked out what was going on they were right to be fuming. Roman Reigns was more salt in the wound. WWE has lost millions of viewers.

 

[Rusty Brookes]

From what I've read, 80s wrestling is almost unrecognisable to today. Star wrestlers virtually never wrestled one another outside of PPVs (which were there less of) and periodic "Saturday Night's Main Events" specials ("Clash of the Champions" specials in NWA/WCW). Weekly shows were short, and the matches name vs jobber were done quickly. Hogan didn't wrestle on TV often and the stories for everyone moved far, far slower. There was less opportunity and reason to get shitty over Hulk Hogan. Also, John Cena came after what was easily WWE's best years where they tried a heap of new and cool stuff. Once the 21st century audience worked out what was going on they were right to be fuming. Roman Reigns was more salt in the wound. WWE has lost millions of viewers.

Yep the squash match format was used throughout the business to terrific effect. It allowed a promotion to get a guy over (and not at the expense of another established star). It allowed an audience to understand the wrestler (particularly a new guy) - what their finisher was, whether they were a heel or face, a brawler, a flyer, etc. It allowed promotions to build matches so they meant something - which resulted in big business. You still did get to see the odd match between top guys (WWF had Prime Time which would show arena matches between semi-main guys) but they were careful in how much they fed the audience.

Now everything is given away for free. In many ways, Raw/Nitro was the worst thing to happen to the business. Why buy a PPV or go to the arena when you get the blow-off to a feud on your TV?