List Mgmt. 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

[Chief]

This is Part 1

The thread is continued in part 2:

List Mgmt. - 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread - Part 2

This Part 2 Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2020-list-management-free-agency-trade-thread.1241035/ What type of players does our list need? Pace, Skill, Class and and goal threat. A winger, forward flank and forward pocket are the 3 positions that we need, plus...

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[theGav56]

Don’t want to be reaching for a forward/ruck with our first pick. Got a feeling we will be if we go down that path.

The NGA fill needs (pace, wingers etc) but I think they’ll good as wreck the rest of our draft hand tbh.

Maybe we take another player or two late or as rookies but list spots look quite limited imo.

Agree it’s needed to compete for a flag eventually but it may not be possible this year unfortunately.

The way the draft and trading works now is complex. The ideal player in this draft is highly unlikely to be available at our pick, but if Thilthorpe is somehow available I’d take him. I’d also consider Cox as someone who can play a hybrid role, but any kind of ruck duties would be somewhere in a distant future if at all. The list is in a state where we can be opportunistic and I am looking forward to seeing how the club plays our hand.

 

[Dockeroo]

They’ll be much much more list changes for the club next year. Next year we could have Mundy, Hill and Colyer retire before we delist/trade anyone and will more than likely have their positions covered short to medium term meaning drafting talls/rucks etc can be done with a bit more ease.

This year our first three draft picks will be best available (who probably won’t be a tall), Walker and Western unless we somehow get some pretty solid picks through trade week. We might be able to squeeze in another pick at best if rumoured list sizes are accurate right at the draft’s back end.

It just isn’t going to happen this year. This year we’ll be getting talent in the door for a crack at the flag over the next 4-5 seasons and will be worrying about depth/developing players later. It isn’t ideal but I honestly think it is what it is tbh.

We will get one pick at 12 or so and unlikely to grab a tall there at this stage. I’m guessing a jack Carroll/O’Driscoll/Eddie Ford type.
However there is a chance that our second rounder could be another live pick before a bid on walker or Western. Academy players tend to slide quite a bit. Both those guys could slide into the 30s or 40s. If western slid to pick 50 it would be very helpful for us. It’s unlikely but not impossible. If that happened we could get a look at the likes of Jackson Callow around pick 30 as a developing key forward.

 

[theGav56]

We will get one pick at 12 or so and unlikely to grab a tall there at this stage. I’m guessing a jack Carroll/O’Driscoll/Eddie Ford type.
However there is a chance that our second rounder could be another live pick before a bid on walker or Western. Academy players tend to slide quite a bit. Both those guys could slide into the 30s or 40s. If western slid to pick 50 it would be very helpful for us. It’s unlikely but not impossible. If that happened we could get a look at the likes of Jackson Callow around pick 30 as a developing key forward.

The club may consider trading a future pick if a ruck/forward they like is available and there is a decent live pick trade to be had. Future picks could be had at a premium due to players in this draft having limited exposure. I’m talking about future second or third round picks.

 

[blue shark]

We will get one pick at 12 or so and unlikely to grab a tall there at this stage. I’m guessing a jack Carroll/O’Driscoll/Eddie Ford type.
However there is a chance that our second rounder could be another live pick before a bid on walker or Western. Academy players tend to slide quite a bit. Both those guys could slide into the 30s or 40s. If western slid to pick 50 it would be very helpful for us. It’s unlikely but not impossible. If that happened we could get a look at the likes of Jackson Callow around pick 30 as a developing key forward.

Callow with Cox on the list gives so many options to JLo for the next 5 plus years.
Teams like the Bulldogs with Naughton, JUH, English, will be setting the bar.
Really looking forward to our last game, and against another up and coming club.

 

[Walkingwounded]

We will get one pick at 12 or so and unlikely to grab a tall there at this stage. I’m guessing a jack Carroll/O’Driscoll/Eddie Ford type.
However there is a chance that our second rounder could be another live pick before a bid on walker or Western. Academy players tend to slide quite a bit. Both those guys could slide into the 30s or 40s. If western slid to pick 50 it would be very helpful for us. It’s unlikely but not impossible. If that happened we could get a look at the likes of Jackson Callow around pick 30 as a developing key forward.

As our pick currently stands I think the likes of (my ranking order)

Carrol
Ford
O’Driscoll

Might be available, if however Tilthorpe slips a bit then we may trade up live on the night.

Lobb is very important as that FWD/Ruck option in our structure, and picking up a medium term replacement is just good planning.

Not sure Callow is a Fwd/Ruc option, haven’t seen enough of Shannon Neale or Kalin Lane to see if they are viable options with later picks. Neale has kicked a few for South Freo so may be a late Smokey to develop.

 

[Bicco]

It's amazing how people think Tabs has only been good this season. Here I was thinking he's literally been playing very good football for the last 3 seasons. Last 2 seasons were cut short with injury, but he's been dominant for the last 3.

But hey TaBs Is RuBbIsH right? He's been a trash mark (stats totally back this up, totally) right? Nuffies on here have been wrong about him for a very long time, yet I still get mocked for being literally the only poster on here for seeing his talent.

Tabs WAS rubbish. He's not anymore. He was hardly serviceable in his first 4 years, aided only by the fact he was pretty much our only decent forward option until McCarthy, meaning he was given every opportunity to develop to the player he is today. If you want to re write history by saying he's always been the player he is today, go for it. But you'd be wrong.
Dixon is no Johnathan Brown but physically he's very similar to Naughton. We've kept far more useless players on our list for longer than he's been with us. At 21 he's physically ready to start his career as a KPP. I fully expect him to be delisted such is the nature of the comp. But the way you're saying Tabs has always been good is way off the mark. KPP's need time. It'll be typical of us to give Dixon time then delist when he's ready and start the process over again with a skinny 18 year old who will need (guess what?) Time to develop.

 

[Docker82]

The way the draft and trading works now is complex. The ideal player in this draft is highly unlikely to be available at our pick, but if Thilthorpe is somehow available I’d take him. I’d also consider Cox as someone who can play a hybrid role, but any kind of ruck duties would be somewhere in a distant future if at all. The list is in a state where we can be opportunistic and I am looking forward to seeing how the club plays our hand.

Yes it’s complex but need get the currency to move up the draft order, which we don’t have. Gut feel tells me talking about Thilthorpe is somewhat delusional without trading away a significant amount of our 2021 draft hand. As I’ve stated in previous posts they’ll be plenty of changes to our list after 2021 so I don’t think it’s an overly smart move.

We will get one pick at 12 or so and unlikely to grab a tall there at this stage. I’m guessing a jack Carroll/O’Driscoll/Eddie Ford type.
However there is a chance that our second rounder could be another live pick before a bid on walker or Western. Academy players tend to slide quite a bit. Both those guys could slide into the 30s or 40s. If western slid to pick 50 it would be very helpful for us. It’s unlikely but not impossible. If that happened we could get a look at the likes of Jackson Callow around pick 30 as a developing key forward.

Can’t see us being that lucky with Walker and Western tbh. Our second pick, which is tied to Melbourne’s, could easily be beyond 30 before the end of trade week. It’ll start at 30 if Melbourne win today and we win tomorrow. It’ll start at 29 if we lose.

There could be an opportunity to trade for a pick in between bids using future picks but it’d be a risk and perhaps not one worth taking.

 

[Walkingwounded]

Tabs WAS rubbish. He's not anymore. He was hardly serviceable in his first 4 years, aided only by the fact he was pretty much our only decent forward option until McCarthy, meaning he was given every opportunity to develop to the player he is today. If you want to re write history by saying he's always been the player he is today, go for it. But you'd be wrong.
Dixon is no Johnathan Brown but physically he's very similar to Naughton. We've kept far more useless players on our list for longer than he's been with us. At 21 he's physically ready to start his career as a KPP. I fully expect him to be delisted such is the nature of the comp. But the way you're saying Tabs has always been good is way off the mark. KPP's need time. It'll be typical of us to give Dixon time then delist when he's ready and start the process over again with a skinny 18 year old who will need (guess what?) Time to develop.

Tabs endeavour has never been questioned, nor has his year on year improvement.. he is now being rewarded for continuing perseverance.

I hope Dixon has seen some of the list changes and continues his improvement, as he must be a coin toss decision re list management, but he is worth persevering with IMO. If and only if he puts in the work required like Tabs has.

 

[tonygeeks]

No world beater but I've always thought Mitch Brown is a decent back up fwd

Could be a goer for us if he gets the chop


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[Purpletown]

Tabs endeavour has never been questioned, nor has his year on year improvement.. he is now being rewarded for continuing perseverance.

I hope Dixon has seen some of the list changes and continues his improvement, as he must be a coin toss decision re list management, but he is worth persevering with IMO. If and only if he puts in the work required like Tabs has.

You are right about Tabs improving year on year on the back of hard work. Hard work and good athleticism enabled him to stay on the list long enough to become a decent player for us. Well done Tabs.

Not sure about Dixon at this stage.

 

[Old VFL AFL Game]

To the best of my knowledge Leno hasn’t been let go.

Carter... yes, McCarthy ... yes, o’Rielly .. yes, Butters... yes all the above have been delisted. NOT Leno

Has Tom North still at Fremantle or has he gone ?

 

[mike91]

Tabs WAS rubbish. He's not anymore. He was hardly serviceable in his first 4 years, aided only by the fact he was pretty much our only decent forward option until McCarthy, meaning he was given every opportunity to develop to the player he is today. If you want to re write history by saying he's always been the player he is today, go for it. But you'd be wrong.
Dixon is no Johnathan Brown but physically he's very similar to Naughton. We've kept far more useless players on our list for longer than he's been with us. At 21 he's physically ready to start his career as a KPP. I fully expect him to be delisted such is the nature of the comp. But the way you're saying Tabs has always been good is way off the mark. KPP's need time. It'll be typical of us to give Dixon time then delist when he's ready and start the process over again with a skinny 18 year old who will need (guess what?) Time to develop.

So much wrong here I'm not even sure where to start.

1. Never said Tabs was a gun from day 1. Please stop lying to fit your narrative.
2. You mean a skinny rookie (literally) struggled to perform at AFL level at a team that was playing finals straight away? Next to a hall of fame legend Pavlich? Surely not, next thing you'll tell me is we always kicked it to Pav in 3v1 situations, because that was our forward structure, oh wait....
3. Tabs was played well at WAFL level and knew where to position himself at afl level.
4. Dixon is similar physically to Naughton? Ok, I suppose Giro is the next Arnold Schwarzenegger also though. Wtf? Dixon is the laziest player on our list (literally). He was gifted his only game by Hale, not by Lyon nor JL, a caretaker coach gifted him a game. Naughton is physically a unit, Dixon can't even return to pre season in shape.
5. At 21 he "should" be ready, but in the real world he's not. Hence the 1 afl game that he never deserved.
6. So we shouldn't draft a KPP because there's no point putting time and effort into them......because we have Dixon? God no!

 

[Walkingwounded]

Has Tom North still at fremantle or has he gone ?

He was up in Cairns hub, so still listed.

 

[Bicco]

So much wrong here I'm not even sure where to start.

1. Never said Tabs was a gun from day 1. Please stop lying to fit your narrative.
2. You mean a skinny rookie (literally) struggled to perform at AFL level at a team that was playing finals straight away? Next to a hall of fame legend Pavlich? Surely not, next thing you'll tell me is we always kicked it to Pav in 3v1 situations, because that was our forward structure, oh wait....
3. Tabs was played well at WAFL level and knew where to position himself at afl level.
4. Dixon is similar physically to Naughton? Ok, I suppose Giro is the next Arnold Schwarzenegger also though. Wtf? Dixon is the laziest player on our list (literally). He was gifted his only game by Hale, not by Lyon nor JL, a caretaker coach gifted him a game. Naughton is physically a unit, Dixon can't even return to pre season in shape.
5. At 21 he "should" be ready, but in the real world he's not. Hence the 1 afl game that he never deserved.
6. So we shouldn't draft a KPP because there's no point putting time and effort into them......because we have Dixon? God no!

 

[Joao]

Dixon is a MUCH better kick than Naughton and possibly a better decision maker too. Unfortunately for us, Naughton ****s all over him in probably every other department.

 

[Docker82]

View attachment 965439

51 games vs 1 plus multiple stats not shown tell you all that you need to know.

If the club wanted three tall forwards all year when conditions suited why wasn’t Dixon playing when Hogan was out? Because he was behind McCarthy who’s already been delisted!

Taberner played 28 games in his first three seasons and a further 17 in his fourth year. He was bloody close to getting delisted at certain stages too.

Talls take time for sure but let’s be honest - the amount of tall forwards that play one game in their first three seasons and turn out to even be serviceable players isn’t many. In fact I’d be impressed if you could name me a single one.

 

[mike91]

View attachment 965439

That's your argument? A useless screenshot? They play nothing alike. The way Naughton uses his body physically is completely different to Dixon. It'd be like me taking a pic of Blakely and saying he should be like Jack Steele, because they're similar weight and height, completely ignoring football talent and actual output

 

[Bicco]

That's your argument? A useless screenshot? They play nothing alike. The way Naughton uses his body physically is completely different to Dixon. It'd be like me taking a pic of Blakely and saying he should be like Jack Steele, because they're similar weight and height, complete ignoring football talent and actual output

I said they were similar physically. Which they are.

 

[raffrox]

I said they were similar physically. Which they are.

They're the same height.

That'd be where the similarity ends unfortunately.

 

[Taylor]

The mental hardness to work to an elite fitness level is a football skill, Dixon hasn't demonstrated that he has this in him.

 

[_007_]

Might I add they are both human.

 

[Superkoops]

Tabs WAS rubbish. He's not anymore. He was hardly serviceable in his first 4 years, aided only by the fact he was pretty much our only decent forward option until McCarthy, meaning he was given every opportunity to develop to the player he is today. If you want to re write history by saying he's always been the player he is today, go for it. But you'd be wrong.
Dixon is no Johnathan Brown but physically he's very similar to Naughton. We've kept far more useless players on our list for longer than he's been with us. At 21 he's physically ready to start his career as a KPP. I fully expect him to be delisted such is the nature of the comp. But the way you're saying Tabs has always been good is way off the mark. KPP's need time. It'll be typical of us to give Dixon time then delist when he's ready and start the process over again with a skinny 18 year old who will need (guess what?) Time to develop.

Can’t agree with this. Yes Tabs had hard hands and took a while to adjust to the required level. Also Tabs has always had an excellent work ethic and one of the best trainers as indicated by both RTB and JL. It is prob what led to his foot injury issues in 2018/19.

Tabs also dominated many games up forward in the WAFL. Over the the WAFL seasons 2013-2017 he averaged 17 possessions, 8 marks and over 2 goals a game. Noting that his first preseason and first WAFL/AFL season was disrupted by bout of Glandular fever.

Dixon pre-draft was acknowledged as a talent but one who had issues with training work ethic and discipline to diet. His skin folds were poor and his Kingborough coach had to work him hard to get into shape before the draft. He ended up the only Tassie player in the 2017 draft. I heard an interview from the Tassie coach after Dixon was drafted and the comments were along the lines of that he had to really change his diet (incl. love of donuts) to improve his body shape and skin folds.

This theme has repeated itself regularly when Dixon heads off for his breaks. That is, he comes back to training out of shape and having to have extra running sessions and the like to get up to speed. Seems to always play catch-up and missing the start of each WAFL season.

I’ll trust the club on this but from what I’ve seen of Dixon is that the talent is there but the discipline work ethic is not. This season I can only go off the training watchers pre-season who indicated that he again Had individual and additional gruelling sessions to get him up to speed. With regards to the Hub no one really l Knows how he has progressed this season but if he gets delisted then that question will be answered. Sam Durdin (Nth Melbourne) seemed to be a similar type (slightly older) - a lumbering KP and like his list management outcome I’m expecting Dixon to be delisted.

 

[stax on the mull]

From list balance point of view if they think Dixon has the talent then they have to keep developing him. If we cop a couple of injuries to our current talls in the pre-season (as has happened before) then who do we bring in as a replacement Rd 1 next year

It doesn't seem we're likely to pick up a ready to play key position forward in the draft. Dixon turns 21 in Feb 2021. Taberner had played only a handful of games when he was 21 (remember he was drafted as a 19yo). McGovern (the one at WC) was still having fat issues at 21yo and didn't debut until he was 22yo.

 

[Purple Jesus]

From list balance point of view if they think Dixon has the talent then they have to keep developing him. If we cop a couple of injuries to our current talls in the pre-season (as has happened before) then who do we bring in as a replacement Rd 1 next year

It doesn't seem we're likely to pick up a ready to play key position forward in the draft. Dixon turns 21 in Feb 2021. Taberner had played only a handful of games when he was 21 (remember he was drafted as a 19yo). McGovern (the one at WC) was still having fat issues at 21yo and didn't debut until he was 22yo.

Maturity can also happen suddenly too. I’d keep him, dude has shown his skills. The rest can be taught.

 

[Docker82]

Maturity can also happen suddenly too. I’d keep him, dude has shown his skills. The rest can be taught.

Dixon has played one AFL game which admittedly he went okay in and has never really dominated even at WAFL level. He’s a fringe prospect like Taberner was. Unlike Taberner though he doesn’t seem to want to put in the work.

We’d be better off giving the list spot (if there even is one) to someone else imo.