What can we as supporters do to drive change?

[Carringbush2010]

LOL, yeah, by ‘eventually’ you do mean a very very long time ... Carlton have won five wooden spoons in the last two decades and yet they’re still considered one of the big four Vic clubs.

Only by profile, like us. As far as on field performances go, we and the blose are universes away from being a big club.

In any case we as members & supporters aren't going to change anything unless we collectively walk away in protest, that'll never happen.

So the club will continue on it's (unintended) slide into overall performance mediocrity (if not already there) and us fans and members will just suck it up in the false hope of 'next year'.

 

[Scribe26]

Only by profile, like us. As far as on field performances go, we and the blose are universes away from being a big club.

In any case we as members & supporters aren't going to change anything unless we collectively walk away in protest, that'll never happen.

So the club will continue on it's (unintended) slide into overall performance mediocrity (if not already there) and us fans and members will just suck it up in the false hope of 'next year'.

So, walk away.

Why haven't you walked away?

Have you walked away yet?

 

[manicpie]

Hey guys I'd like to not be starting this thread, but our club is being run by a bunch of ****ing donkeys and it needs to change.

First of all there is Ed, don't get me wrong he has done a lot of good for the club but no one should be in the position for as long as he has been. I have grown tired of constantly hearing on the news that yet again he has stuck his foot in his mouth again.

Then there is the fact that the club as a whole is being run by a boy's club of mates.

This club should be run a lot more professionally it feels like its run like an amateurs team.

I have zero faith in the recruitment team, the coaching team and the president going forward.

Then there is the question of who do we replace Nathan with. Who in your minds would be the leading candidates to take us to our next flag?

On pure talent and runs on the board it is easy to say we should go after Clarko, however given what he has already achieved at the level I would question his hunger to go again at a different club plus the game might have past him.

Do Kpp actually exist according to our recruitment team, apparently not and I want to know who the F thought it was a good idea to trade in Beams.

They can spin as much sh*t as they want our injuries massively shot up once we moved to our current training ground and haven't gotten better since.

What can we do as supporters to drive this change?

Nothing, Richmond tried dumping manure out the front entrance to punt rd, all that did was make them stink it up for the next 20 years

 

[76woodenspooners]

Only by profile, like us. As far as on field performances go, we and the blose are universes away from being a big club.

So we’re doing OK then?

In any case we as members & supporters aren't going to change anything unless we collectively walk away in protest, that'll never happen.

Seriously, what would you change?

We had a review only a few years ago by people who understand this stuff more than I do, they made a lot of changes, and the results improved by any measure.

 

[Carringbush2010]

So, walk away.

Why haven't you walked away?

Have you walked away yet?

Read the post again.

Why haven't you read the post again?

Have you read the post again yet?

*Hint, I'm not the collective.

 

[Carringbush2010]

So we’re doing OK then?



Seriously, what would you change?

We had a review only a few years ago by people who understand this stuff more than I do, they made a lot of changes, and the results improved by any measure.

We're doing ok? Not on field we're not, isn't that what the fan wants most? Flags? Or do we just the club to be the club and any on field success is just a by product? Yeah nah, that sh1t don't fly.

What would I change? Ensure that things that are in the clubs control do not end up harming us, like off field disruptions, unnecessary injuries, poor trading, poor development - that's one thing just off the top of my head. Move away from being 'nice' footballers, let's be unsociable Collingwood, like the hawks were in their 3 peat.

After the review of 2017 we've improved no doubt, since 2018 we've regressed no doubt.

 

[76woodenspooners]

We're doing ok? Not on field we're not, isn't that what the fan wants most? Flags? Or do we just the club to be the club and any on field success is just a by product? Yeah nah, that sh1t don't

You don’t think the club is trying to win Premierships?

What would I change? Ensure that things that are in the clubs control do not end up harming us, like off field disruptions,

What specifically would you have done to avoid the Sidebottom Covid breach incident ?

unnecessary injuries,

Which of the injuries this season to Howe, Pendlebury, Treloar, DeGoey, MiHocek, Mayne, and Quaynor were unnecessary? And how would you have avoided them?

poor trading,

Didn’t see too many people complaining about the Beams recruitment to bolster our stocks weeks after coming within a kick of a Premiership?

Us punters went off our nut at the recruitment of Jack ‘Steak-knives’ Crisp.

We really have no idea.

poor development

What’s poor about our development? How specifically could it be done better?

 

[Carringbush2010]

You don’t think the club is trying to win Premierships?

What sort of a question is that? Of course they are, they could be doing it better though. Like things that are in the clubs control

What specifically would you have done to avoid the Sidebottom Covid breach incident ?

I didn't specifically mention the Sides incident, but seeing you're only going to use this example, how about, this was in his control was it not?

Which of the injuries this season to Howe, Pendlebury, Treloar, DeGoey, MiHocek, Mayne, and Quaynor were unnecessary? And how would you have avoided them?

Pendles and Treloar are soft tissue injuries, the rest are not in the control of the club or player.

Didn’t see too many people complaining about the Beams recruitment to bolster our stocks weeks after coming within a kick of a Premiership?

Now you're using a hind sight example, don't be silly. How about the Mayne and Wells contracts, every man and his dog were praying these deals would not go ahead yet here we are.

In b4 'bUT mANe is been FAtastIC' - spare me, the money used off TPP could've been put to far better use. Don't get me started on the Wells deal.

What’s poor about our development? How specifically could it be done better?

Have you seen the way we play this year? Or have you just turned up? Go have a look at the coaches for forward and ball use, midfield and transition then go watch some replays of our games (if you can put yourself through it). Then go have a look at our defensive work and look at the coach in charge of that.

Might give you a clue how our game has developed this year. Not good.

 

[76woodenspooners]

What sort of a question is that? Of course they are, they could be doing it better though. Like things that are in the clubs control

How are you or I in a position to say what they could or couldn’t be doing better?

Even if we did have a clue about how our team could be doing better, we’ve got no idea what is going on behind the closed doors of the club and what they’re dealing with.

I didn't specifically mention the Sides incident, but seeing you're only going to use this example, how about, this was in his control was it not?

Yes indeed he was. So what do you think the club should have done differently?

What are the other off-field disruptions that have affected our ability to win a Premiership this year?

Pendles and Treloar are soft tissue injuries, ...

How close to the edge do you think the club should go in their quest for Premierships? Or do you think they maybe need to dial it back a bit?

... the rest are not in the control of the club or player.

Yeah, this is what I find perplexing ...

... we lose players of the calibre of Howe and DeGoey for large numbers of games for reasons that are outside of the control of the club or player ... and yet we’re pushing for change at the club because we finish 8th after the H&A?

I count six players we’ve blooded this season (T.Brown, Atu, Kelly, Keane, Lynch, Ruscoe ... have I missed any?). Add to that games given to veterans on their last legs (Dunn, Reid, Varcoe ... have I missed any?) so we’ve clearly been struggling with availability.

Port played 30 players this season. Collingwood played 40 in an abbreviated season. Little wonder about their relative ladder position

Now you're using a hind sight example, ...

On the contrary, I’m using an example of a decision made at the time.

How about the Mayne and Wells contracts, every man and his dog were praying these deals would not go ahead yet here we are.

In b4 'bUT mANe is been FAtastIC' - spare me, the money used off TPP could've been put to far better use.

Mayne was a kick away from being a Premiership player?

Have you seen the way we play this year? Or have you just turned up? Go have a look at the coaches for forward and ball use, midfield and transition then go watch some replays of our games (if you can put yourself through it). Then go have a look at our defensive work and look at the coach in charge of that.

Sure, nobody would claim that we’ve been playing great footy. I don’t think the club needs me to point that out to them.

But what changes would I make that wouldn’t have catastrophic side effects that send us tumbling to the bottom of the ladder? I have no idea, and doubt you have either.

 

[jmac70]

Nepotism runs deep at Collingwood, always has. Our last three most successful coaches, Hafey, Matthews and Malthouse all outsiders, none of them are revered figures though. We cherish our own.

This culture is driven by Ed and Presidents before him, in conjunction with the board. We could get rid of the President position and move to a pure business model. Purpose only to win flags and increase revenue. Board members and coaches appointed only on the basis of qualifications to be successful.

Players traded more aggressively, no consideration given to loyalty. Only consideration = winning.

This might bring us the flags we crave, might.

BUT, we risk diminishing our culture, our Collingwood family. Some might accept that as it results in flags. Remember though, it is this culture that maintains us, gets us a win in games we are expected to lose. Makes us who we are. Makes us a family.

I don’t want to lose that.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Nepotism runs deep at Collingwood, always has. Our last three most successful coaches, Hafey, Matthews and Malthouse all outsiders, none of them are revered figures though. We cherish our own.

This culture is driven by Ed and Presidents before him, in conjunction with the board.

Ed appointed Malthouse but? ...

... I guess that’s the way it works, new Presidents come in, breaking up the old boys club, only to lay the foundations for a new boys club.

(That comment could apply equally to American politics)

We could get rid of the President position ...

Not sure that we can. I’d imagine for legal reasons there needs to be a board with oversight.

...and move to a pure business model.

Businesses have boards with oversight ... unless they‘re privately owned. Who would privately own Collingwood?

Purpose only to win flags and increase revenue.

The only difference to the club’s purpose today, is that you’ve removed the ‘looking after the members and supporters’ stuff? Which is something you often criticise?

Board members and coaches appointed only on the basis of qualifications to be successful.

How are our board members unqualified?

 

[Carringbush2010]

How are you or I in a position to say what they could or couldn’t be doing better?

Never said it was our position, it's the clubs job to win premierships, that's the end game, everything else pales in comparison. All I'm saying is do your job club because the club has not exactly been stellar in doing it's job.

You can continue to nitpick situations to defend the club in it's goal and how well it's performed, really all of that is irrelevant.

You can ask me or anyone else 'oh yeah what would you do, seeing how you reckon you got the answers, ya smartass'. Agree I don't have all the answers, again it's not my job it's the clubs.

IF the club does not attempt to change then it will not improve to it's end game, the old analogy - 'doing the same thing over and over and expecting change is the first sign of insanity'. It rings true.

So a question I have for you, are you happy for the club to continue plodding along? The impression you give is that you're defending the club and are happy for the current situation.

Change is needed, if it does not happen, then we may as well take our bat and ball and go home.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Never said it was our position, it's the clubs job to win premierships, that's the end game, everything else pales in comparison. All I'm saying is do your job club because the club has not exactly been stellar in doing it's job.

It’s also the job of 17 other clubs to win Premierships.

Every year one club achieves that.

Some years it’s our club.

Some clubs win more than us. Some clubs win less.

After each year all clubs strive to improve so they can win / retain it the next year.

That thing you’re gunning for ... change ... can go in two directions. Things can change for the better, but they can also change for the worse.

How do you tap that change for the better, without getting change for the worse? And toss in an unhealthy dose of luck into the mix as well.

You can continue to nitpick situations to defend the club in it's goal and how well it's performed, really all of that is irrelevant.

I’m challenging your assertion that if things changed we‘d be winning Premierships.

IF the club does not attempt to change then it will not improve to it's end game, the old analogy - 'doing the same thing over and over and expecting change is the first sign of insanity'. It rings true.

The club does change every year, it changes a lot. Most of our board of directors joined after 2016. Since our 2010 Premiership we’ve gone through five different stints of football directors, three fitness directors, four club doctors, and untold numbers of assistant coaches and development coaches. Many of those years we were turning over a quarter of our list. Looks like one of the outcomes of the 2017 review was that things were changing too much, we’ve certainly been more stable since and we’ve reaped rewards from that.

So a question I have for you, are you happy for the club to continue plodding along?

Re: Onfield stuff ... I disagree with the assertion that the club are plodding along. Sure, I think they could be doing better, but I also recognise that they could be doing worse, a lot worse.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I’m challenging your assertion that if things changed we‘d be winning Premierships.

I'm challenging your assertion that if we don't we'd be winning premierships, in fact no I'm not, because it's impossible. No change no flag. Period. Surely you can understand that.

Some years it's our club, yes like 2 years in the last 6 decades. That is not good enough, in fact that is very poor. Good for you if you're content with that, a lot are not and this thread is evidence of that.

That's why there's a lot of us 'gunning for change' because we wan't success. We're even discussing it in a thread with other Pie fans, go figure.

The club does change every year, it changes a lot. Most of our board of directors joined after 2016. Since our 2010 Premiership we’ve gone through five different stints of football directors, three fitness directors, four club doctors, and untold numbers of assistant coaches and development coaches. Many of those years we were turning over a quarter of our list. Looks like one of the outcomes of the 2017 review was that things were changing too much, we’ve certainly been more stable since and we’ve reaped rewards from that.

And what has the club achieved since 2010?, in the clubs mind >zero<, nothing but failings learnings and still no cup. Regardless of change, it's obvious the change(s) have not all been the correct ones.

And you'll reply with 'Oh but you can't expect the club to get it right all and every time'. Ok that's true while one of those other 17 clubs are achieving success - so they're getting right while we're not.

You give the impression of ke sera sera, otherwise you wouldn't be defending the club so vehemently. Well apologies but f*** that, that is loser mentality.

Re: Onfield stuff ... I disagree with the assertion that the club are plodding along. Sure, I think they could be doing better, but I also recognise that they could be doing worse, a lot worse.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, in order to do things better things need to change. Plod or no plod we're still empty handed while some of those other 17 clubs you're talking about are achieving success at the expense of us no less. If the mentality of the club is 'oh we could be doing worse, so nothing to see here' then just desserts is probably about where we are.

 

[TradeDraft]

Nothing. Eddie has too much power