Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 3

[Chief]

Continued in Part 4:

Vic - How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 4

This thread is Continued in Part 5: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/how-would-you-rate-daniel-andrews-performance-as-victorian-premier-part-5.1282789/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Kwality]

The airport link throws up a quandary for this thread. Do we blame Andrews, ScoMo, or Murdoch?
[/QUOTE)

You dont know ?

 

[Kwality]

Glad the airport link is getting started in one form or another but the metro tunnel option was definitely not my favoured solution. The new HCMTs and their peak hour configurations are not the ideal layout for airport commuters who would probably prefer a seat and regular commuters don't mix well with ordinary people carrying suitcases and bags before and after their flight. Then there's the issue with taking more capacity out of the tunnel before it's even been built, despite the clear need to electrify out to Melton and Wyndham Vale. And then there's the missed opportunity to put regional trains on a dedicated line between Sunshine and the city and let them run in at full speed without being impeded by other services.

This plan is a bloody waste of money, trying to get of Melbourne in peak hour on a suburban
train link ... uber pls

 

[Kwality]

I know you want us all to be like sweden, it's not happening. Only tin foil hat nutters like you still say it's "just the flu*

Taking your original comment about sewage as if you were suggesting the sewage was infectious was disingenuous Ned .

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Taking your original comment about sewage as if you were suggesting the sewage was infectious was disingenuous Ned .

I never said that

I said the sewerage has tested positive. I said it's likely either shedding or interstate truckies, but they have to treat it as if it's a potential latent issue in that area.

That's why target testing occurs when this happens, exactly the same as "gold standard" NSW

Happy for you to disagree with me, but don't make s**t up

 

[Kwality]

Being familiar with this situation, really what the kids need more literacy and numeracy skills. FAR too little focus on how to do simple math based problem solving.

Disability funding in part is already dealt with by NDIS.

Sure, it might be a marginal improvement for kids on disabilities. However, the core syllabus that kids deal with these days has gone far too much in the “how to use an iPad” direction. So, more of this funding should go to lifting each kid’s educational standards, rather than all of the 1.6 billion going straight to disability.

Bottom up makes sense to me too.
Measuring results to understand what is not working can be embarrassing in the short term, but delivers results.

 

[Millky95]

If you want us to pat Dan on the back for 1 active case you also accept he was at fault for the 700 daily cases we saw.

Conversely if you want to attribute no credit to him for us being at 1 active case you can't attribute any blame to him for the 700 daily cases.

Can't have it both ways.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Kwality]

I never said that

I said the sewerage has tested positive. I said it's likely either shedding or interstate truckies, but they have to treat it as if it's a potential latent issue in that area.

That's why target testing occurs when this happens, exactly the same as "gold standard" NSW

Happy for you to disagree with me, but don't make sh*t up
[/QUOT)

That was the point I was trying to make, you are spot on, the OP was disingenuous to misrepresent your position.

Sorry I didnt put it more clearly.

 

[eddiesmith]

I never said that

I said the sewerage has tested positive. I said it's likely either shedding or interstate truckies, but they have to treat it as if it's a potential latent issue in that area.

That's why target testing occurs when this happens, exactly the same as "gold standard" NSW

Happy for you to disagree with me, but don't make sh*t up

Have they ever actually found a case from doing targeted testing because of sewerage results?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Have they ever actually found a case from doing targeted testing because of sewerage results?

I believe in NSW, but don't quote me (I'm not following the case by case situation there)

I know they have been using it for months now, and it helps them with the targeted testing they have been doing out west and in some coastal towns.

 

[Kwality]

I believe in NSW, but don't quote me (I'm not following the case by case situation there)

I know they have been using it for months now, and it helps them with the targeted testing they have been doing out west and in some coastal towns.

They havent caught any druggies either, it just tells you where to look.

 

[chunkylover53]

Interesting reading this 2016 article now after all that's happened this year.

Who is the real Daniel Andrews?

The firefighters dispute and the sidelining of a second, female, minister has people increasingly asking: who is the real Daniel Andrews?

www.theage.com.au

 

[Not Important]

Interesting reading this 2016 article now after all that's happened this year.

Who is the real Daniel Andrews?

The firefighters dispute and the sidelining of a second, female, minister has people increasingly asking: who is the real Daniel Andrews?

www.theage.com.au

booooring rightism. just more dan bashing from the right dingers. daniel has done a top job righting a terrible situation.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I’ve never used it so will take your word on that, I just plan 3 hours for the drive from the eastern suburbs across the gridlock that’s not a priority for this government

Takes me less than an hour from the eastern suburbs.

I’ll assume you are making your way to the airport via Warrnambool.

 

[freebloke]

Tl;dr of the below... Australian curriculum and performance is lagging against an OECD benchmark.

The focus should be on learning from Singapore's success rather than the populist "oh... more money for disabled kids".

I am all for giving them more support, however, the larger focus and the finances should be aimed at fixing the curriculum and the teaching methods. Do look at the graphs if you'd want see the decline in student results by expanding the quotes.

NDIS funding is limited to disability supports in school but is not education-based:

• Self-care at school related to the student’s disability, like support with eating.
• Specialised training of teachers and other staff about the specific personal support needs of a student with disability.
• Specialist transport required because of the student’s disability (does not substitute parental responsibility).
• Transportable equipment such as a wheelchair or personal communication devices.
• Therapies a family and school have agreed may be delivered during school time but are not for educational purposes.

https://www.ndis.gov.au/understanding/ndis-and-other-government-services/education

The remainder is funded by the education system.

I know NDIS doesn't support studies. However, there is already a student aid system called PSD (Program for Students with Disabilities).

All the extra money might just mean that an aid will be there for four days instead of two days. I know that kids with autism etc. were already getting student aids under the PSD program. So, I am not sure how much additional spending of 1.6 billion will achieve specifically for disabled kids, when the key issue appears to be more on curriculum and teaching methods (pedagogy) potentially.

I don't know what you mean - you can read the Maths syllabus here.

https://victoriancurriculum.vcaa.vic.edu.au/mathematics/curriculum/f-10

I think the comparison benchmarks as I've noted further down below might be more informative to this discussion.

In a practical sense, it does help more than just those students with a disability.

Take a class of 25 students in which you may have a student with ADHD, a student with dyslexia and a student with low IQ - all of which previously would have been ineligible for funding. These students, due to their diagnoses, may find it difficult to engage with the class content, and as a result, disengage from their learning. As they are disengaged, they are disruptive to the classroom learning environment - affecting the learning of the 22 other students. The teacher may spend a disproportionate amount of class time assisting these students to re-engage them - meaning that some/many of the 22 other students don't get the assistance (or opportunities for extension) they need.

Under this model, the students would be eligible for funding which could go towards an education support aide who can focus on assisting these students given their unique learning disabilities. This support can help avoid that initial point of disengagement - leading to a better classroom learning environment for all 25 students.

I think it is simplistic to say that if more money is spent on disability kids, the rest will come up. Here is the reality.


According to PISA 2018 (an OECD Study)

While Australia’s reading performance in PISA 2018 was similar to that observed in 2015, when considering a longer period, mean performance in reading has been steadily declining, from initially high levels, since the country first participated in PISA in 2000. Performance in mathematics has been declining too since 2003, and in science, since 2012. In reading, more rapid declines were observed amongst the country’s lowest-achieving students. In mathematics and science, performance declined to a similar extent at the top and the bottom of the performance distribution, as well as on average.

PISA Study - OECD Link

So, Australia's been in continual decline for all of the above. I am assuming here that on an OECD average level, the disabled kids would affect the results similarly (a little bit up or down), but the net result is that Australian education is clearly going downhill.

If you look comparatively with Singapore, which is the top rated country in OECD, the research is even more startling. Singapore, focuses on the fundamentals, teaching methods and standards far more. The curriculum is focussed and aims to actually cut out the the unnecessary bits.

Program of research (2017-2020)

The Australian Curriculum

australiancurriculum.edu.au

In the 2015 cycle of PISA, Australia ranked 14th in Science literacy.

For Reading Literacy, Australia ranked 16th compared to Singapore’s 1st place.

Singapore ranked 1st compared to Australia’s 25th place, that is, three times the number of Singaporean students achieved at the highest proficiency levels in Mathematics Literacy, compared to Australia and the OECD average.


(Singapore) Curriculum Design
Singapore’s education system is regarded as exceedingly rigorous. The academic standards set by its Primary School Leaving Examination and O- and A-levels are “as high as anywhere in the world” (OECD, 2013, p. 172). All students receive a strong early foundation in the core subjects of Mathematics, Science, and literacy in two languages. Singapore’s education system is commonly perceived as one that is excessively focused on coverage and mastery of disciplinary content. Moving from a successful education system embedded in knowledge transmission, Singapore is engaged in matching curriculum,
pedagogy and assessments to standards that will lead to a greater focus on high-level, complex skills (OECD, 2010). Integral to this goal is the decision to reduce learning content by 30 percent [Personal communication]1

The OECD (2011, p. 172) reports that Singapore “does not just establish high standards and then leave it to individual teachers to figure out how to achieve them.” Intense focus on curriculum development has produced strong programmes in Mathematics, Science,technical education and languages, as well as a significant investment in well-trained teachers to teach them (OECD, 2011). Singapore has concentrated on the “universal development of strong Mathematics, Science and technical skills.” Having a “solid foundation in Mathematics and Science for all students in the elementary grades seems to be a core part of students’ later success” (OECD, 2011,p.168).

If you see below, literacy, numeracy and ICT is not even considered as separate general capabilities in Victoria.

The four capabilities in the Victorian Curriculum F–10 are:

• Critical and Creative Thinking
• Ethical
• Intercultural
• Personal and Social

The Australian Curriculum F–10 includes three additional general capabilities:

• Literacy
• Numeracy
• Information and Communication Technologies (ICT).

The Victorian Curriculum F–10 design does not include these three general capabilities as separate learning areas or capabilities with discrete knowledge and skills.

Given the inclusion of a Literacy strand in English, and the proficiencies of understanding, fluency, problem solving, and reasoning in Mathematics, it is unnecessary to define Literacy and Numeracy as a distinct curriculum. The learning of the skills and knowledge defined by the ICT general capability are now embedded in student learning across the curriculum.

Overview - Learning areas and Capabilities - Victorian Curriculum

 

[chunkylover53]

booooring rightism. just more dan bashing from the right dingers. daniel has done a top job righting a terrible situation.

Did you read the article?

 

[Evolved1]

Does anyone really think the mask policy is even necessary indoors?

 

[Millky95]

Does anyone really think the mask policy is even necessary indoors?

Yes because it is a lot harder to be socially distant in a super marker or walking through a shopping centre

 

[Evolved1]

Yes because it is a lot harder to be socially distant in a super marker or walking through a shopping centre

We have one active case. Your odds of catching covid from a trip to coles are lower than those of winning the lottery.

 

[Millky95]

We have one active case. Your odds of catching covid from a trip to coles are lower than those of winning the lottery.

That we know of. I live with people who are vulnerable, I don't want to risk it

 

[eddiesmith]

Does anyone really think the mask policy is even necessary indoors?

Yes but we have to take any changes as a positive, it took long enough for Dan to listen to the health advice on the need for masks outdoors, we’ll be waiting a while longer for him to completely give in.

What I do wonder is he still expecting people to wear a mask inside their own home if they have visitors?

 

[Evolved1]

That we know of. I live with people who are vulnerable, I don't want to risk it

There are health risks associated with wearing masks too so I prefer it be a recommendation rather than mandatory.

 

[chunkylover53]

My mask gets washed once week. Aside from that it kicks around the dashboard of the car, hangs around my bedroom, dropped on the floor and is hardly air tight over my face - mostly hangs loose and falls down if I'm chewing gum or something.

There are plenty of people (in fact everyone I associate with) who is the same. I find it hard to believe masks are doing anything.

 

[Millky95]

What I do wonder is he still expecting people to wear a mask inside their own home if they have visitors?

I think the fact people aren't doing that, is why we have had such tight rules around home visitors for a while now

There are health risks associated with wearing masks too so I prefer it be a recommendation rather than mandatory.

I mean, if wearing a mask when going to the shops for 45-90 minutes is all I need to do, then that doesn't bother me.

I'd like to not wear them at work but I suspect I'll have to until I get jabbed

 

[Evolved1]

Yes but we have to take any changes as a positive, it took long enough for Dan to listen to the health advice on the need for masks outdoors, we’ll be waiting a while longer for him to completely give in.

What I do wonder is he still expecting people to wear a mask inside their own home if they have visitors?

Given that an 'abundance of caution' can be used to justify almost anything, who knows when the indoor mask policy will be removed.

I'm not concerned with policies that are unenforceable. I've been going maskless outside for awhile now and the same goes for when I have visitors over.

 

[Abers]

So I gather “Covid-normal” has been quietly ditched given the caps on Christmas Day guests despite the fact that we will likely hit 28 days of no cases next week.

Did Andrews believe we would never hit 28 days of no cases and has now had to back away from releasing the breaks for fear of a career ending third wave?