Autopsy Round 2, 2021: Hawthorn defeated by Richmond

[Judd2Sewell]

And the other two players?

Read above

 

[On Topic]

Overall it was an ok result.

I thought some of the senior blokes had games well below their best. Its becoming a frustrating trend in recent years. Players in their primes shouldn't be underperforming.

Jiath is as frustrating as he is exciting. He stays in the side but couldn't help but laugh when he kicked it straight to the man on the mark and then immediately tackle him without it.

Disappointed about Day. Scrimshaw coming in is a no brainer. I liked Scrimshaw's impact when he came on. His ball use out of defense is really good.

Hardwick was phenomenal.

Tigers were just far cleaner in the contest, quicker with the transitions and took their chances. That was pretty much the difference in the end.

 

[killerspud]

Dusty
Grimes
Lynch
Vlastuin
And maybe Short

It is definitely comparable. Vlastuin is a AA calibre defender.

Edwards is definitely top 5 Ditto Houli. Cotchin and Prestia also. You completely missed Lambert (though most people do) whose run is vital to them. The fact that they have so many top flight players with 150+ games experience is why they are so successful - exactly like us 2012-2015.

 

[KermitJagger]

Really, is that how numbers work?

How condescending and unneeded, especially when you've seemingly missed my point.

I wasn't suggesting that the loss of Vlastuin equals the loss of Gunston, Sicily and Wingard. However I feel it's rather disingenuous to point out that we are missing three of our best five players without acknowledging that they were missing (IMO) one of their best five players.

Who cares if that guy lost his leg, in all fairness I've stubbed my toe.

I didn't miss your point I just didn't think it had anything to do with what I was saying.

 

[grumbleguts]

It’s not a ‘given’, but we have the greatest modern coach who’s highly adept at building raw, young sides into flag contenders. It can be counted on as much as anyone can count on it.

Waste if time feeding the troll.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Edwards is definitely top 5 Ditto Houli. Cotchin and Prestia also. You completely missed Lambert (though most people do) whose run is vital to them. The fact that they have so many top flight players with 150+ games experience is why they are so successful - exactly like us 2012-2015.

I haven't completely missed Lambert. Lambert is a gun, but IMO Vlastuin is one of the Premier defenders in the league. There's a reason Richmond's defence is so strong even after losing Rance, and Vlastuin is a huge part of that and is only behind Grimes in terms of importance.

Anyway, not sure how Edwards, Lambert, Houli, Cotchin and Prestia can all fit into their top 5 players.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Waste if time feeding the troll.

Christ, who is trolling? Do you even know what trolling is?

Unbelievable that this coming from the most abusive poster on this forum.

 

[H00t]

Our poor hand balling was on display again. We’d have to be one of, if not the worst team by hand.

We execute poorly by hand, especially around congestion or with pressure on. The handball is either too high, too low or completely off target. Always puts the receiver under pressure.

Plus what is our fascination with hand balling to stationary targets? We always handball to someone not moving or who is under pressure. We aren’t creative at all with handballs as well as no run from behind.

We will handball 4 times, go nowhere and still be drastically under the pump. Whereas other teams will have had four handballs, moved the ball forward ten metres to someone in the clear.

Mitchell’s the worst at it. JOM as well, he used to be such a good hand baller not anymore though.

 

[jenniferHAWKinS]

Hodge
Franklin
Mitchell
Rioli
Burgoyne
Lake
Roughead
Gunston
Breust
Birchall
Gibson
Smith
Lewis

Insert Vlaustin in about here?

Hale
McEvoy
Hill
Guerra
Stratton
Sewell
Puopolo
Frawley
Shiels

 

[local hack]

Weren’t disgraced but just not clean enough against a very polished unit. Can’t remember watching a game where we handballed so often direct to the opposition.
Youth are looking very promising.
One observation is that we have a few that struggle on their non preferred side, saw day, Phillips, cj and a few others.
And how ducking good was cj? Was everywhere and what a weapon he is becoming - thought he was our best

 

[robiecampbellbrown]

..

thats not a cyril thing, tho he had the best style, that is a strong gameplan with everyone brought in and a confidence game in yaself and teammates.

i wasn’t saying only Cyril did it though he was the best at it. My point was there were ample chances to do it when the pressure was on and we chose to take possession under pressure and handball to another player under pressure.

 

[almuz]

Tigers brand means even as the best team in the comp - they win by 30 against a bottom 6 or so side. Hawks of 2011-2015 would have put up a cricket score

 

[Simon Crawshay]

The F50 entries are a result of what’s just happened up the field. Our backline is great but exagerrated a bit by our numbers flooding back. The ball will get out but we won’t have the numbers upfield which resulted in a Puopolo vs everyone scenario. Even with an unexpected midfield turnover, we have nobody up forward.

Another reason is the switch or 3 or 4 backwards handballs, ample time for the oppo to fill our F50. Our gameplan is to commit numbers to the ball but it just results in overuse and unnecessary handballs. Good sides send 1 in and 3 peel off forward of the ball, not behind. It’s changing slowly with a lot more (too loopy) handballs in front if the runner but the skill levels aren’t there yet.

Lastly, there is the TOB factor, he drops too many marks, he needs to be a decoy and allow others to lead into different spots. We need to use his weakness as a strength.

There is a lot of truth to what you have posted above but I have seen multiple instances where we have had players inside forward 50 and still choose to ignore a lead and bomb it long to a pack in the pocket.

How many goals a game do we get from hitting leads in the forward 50 these days? One maybe two a game?

I remember in the early 2010s watching Buddy, Rough, Williams, etc kick 15 to 20 goals a game on a routine basis and so many of these goals were from leading forwards.

 

[grumbleguts]

i wasn’t saying only Cyril did it though he was the best at it. My point was there were ample chances to do it when the pressure was on and we chose to take possession under pressure and handball to another player under pressure.

The problem with tapping it on is some imbecile in greenish yellow pings you for throwing it even if you tap the thing for a living.

 

[Towmotar]

Never heard a team s*cked off by the commentators as much as Richmond was today, particularly by Garry Lyon.
Take nothing away from Richmond, they won in third gear, comfortably.
Pretty happy we had a decent crack at it.

 

[CliffMcTainshaw]

Soon we are going to have to fit Greaves, Sicily and DGB into that back 6.
So maybe/hopefully Day and Srimmers can push up become those bigger mids with elite kicking. Would be a welcome change as to what we have now. Teams just walk it out the centre bounce. Very hard to watch.
Downie will be on a wing as well, so we just gotta ride it out but eventually We will start looking better through the midfield with growth from within.

DGB injured today. Hyper extended his knee apparently.

 

[Yuley95]

Credit to Howe, he was good. Hopefully he keeps it up. You can question his speed and skills, but you can never question his heart.

Glad to hear you say this. I thought he was pretty solid last week but seems to be the whipping boy for so many people on this forum. He’s not a match winner but we seem to have better structures when he is in the team and he is generally pretty solid

 

[Carl Spackler]

This site is funny after a loss. A large percentage of posters, maybe most, just don't seem happy unless they are miserable.

We played a good game today. Richmond are a very strong unit. Their greatest strength, I think is how well their players support and anticipate each other when a ball is contested. One or two go in and you see three our four positioned around the contest for the response with a quick flurry of overlapping handballs as they escape to find the remaining 12 players spread well across the field and all running hard to provide options. It's some consistent and impressive play. Their second strength may be how disciplined they are in defense. They do not get pulled out of shape and really pushed our young forward line around.

Our guys, particularly the younger players, really struggled under the pressure early. Even the senior players made a few noticeable skills and decision-making errors when under Richmond's pressure in the first quarter. To the boy's credit, they steadied and played Richmond even on the scoreboard from the mid-point of the first quarter until the six-minute mark of the fourth. In all that time Richmond never got more than one goal further in front than they were at the mid-point of the first quarter. I thought the midfield did an exceptional job of throwing the Richmond advance off it's pace and making them tick-tack their way forward. There were only a handful of times when Richmond were able to run from back to front without being slowed. It wasn't enough to put us in a position to win, particularly with the way the forward line was outplayed, but it did let the back line stay organised and prevent a slaughter.

All in all, I am pleased with this game. If the team seasons well this year then they have a chance of being one of the big movers who seem to crop up each season. One of the teams that show massive improvement from the start of the year to the finish. Let's hope anyways. I think there's a reasonable chance we can really enjoy this year. Chins up, folks. It ain't all that bad.

 

[Mrzohs]

[/QUOTE]

DGB injured today. Hyper extended his knee apparently.

Not acl ?

 

[Roddy]

This site is funny after a loss. A large percentage of posters, maybe most, just don't seem happy unless they are miserable.

We played a good game today. Richmond are a very strong unit. Their greatest strength, I think is how well their players support and anticipate each other when a ball is contested. One or two go in and you see three our four positioned around the contest for the response with a quick flurry of overlapping handballs as they escape to find the remaining 12 players spread well across the field and all running hard to provide options. It's some consistent and impressive play. Their second strength may be how disciplined they are in defense. They do not get pulled out of shape and really pushed our young forward line around.

Our guys, particularly the younger players, really struggled under the pressure early. Even the senior players made a few noticeable skills and decision-making errors when under Richmond's pressure in the first quarter. To the boy's credit, they steadied and played Richmond even on the scoreboard from the mid-point of the first quarter until the six-minute mark of the fourth. In all that time Richmond never got more than one goal further in front than they were at the mid-point of the first quarter. I thought the midfield did an exceptional job of throwing the Richmond advance off it's pace and making them tick-tack their way forward. There were only a handful of times when Richmond were able to run from back to front without being slowed. It wasn't enough to put us in a position to win, particularly with the way the forward line was outplayed, but it did let the back line stay organised and prevent a slaughter.

All in all, I am pleased with this game. If they team seasons well this year then they have a chance of being one of the big movers who seem to crop up each season. One of the teams that show massive improvement from the start of the year to the finish. Let's hope anyways. I think there's a reasonable chance we can really enjoy this year. Chins up, folks. It ain't all that bad.

Agree with every word you say. Especially this.

 

[gianytee]

These games I’m not to fussed with win or lose but to see the youth and how they handle the mature bodies of Richmond and quite frankly was impressed.

Morrison, Jiath, Moore, Howe, Brockman, Kozi you guys can hold your head high had a crack on sone great players and competed really well.

I like Hanrahan but he is too small can’t hold tackles but at least tries and can rush kicks. Big liability against big bodies and we’ll TOB you are not a key tall.

Watch Kozi a second gamer not win many contests but competed and didn’t lose often. TOB just “flies” so when he gets bodied he completely loses the contest. To me he is a third tall/second ruckman type. No way is he a key forward Jeka, DGB and Lewis can dish up more forward contests than him and not lose them just like Kozi. TOB or Ceglar simple as that.

 

[Vassp]

Vlastuin isn't in their top 5 nor is it comparable, take our Grimes, lynch and Bolton is basically what we were missing today from our best 22.

Good game by the young hawks. Love Jaith in defence, he had a cracking game. - what a find.
vlastuin is one of most important players, he sets up our defence. So when he went down in the GF we were oh s**t .
we also missed houli which was another big out for us.

my summery of the game is we got you guys early, with a heap of pressure.
you guys to your credit took the game on, with run and handballs. if you had starting kicking blindly we would’ve taken more advantage. I liked the way your players took on the game, yeah you made mistakes but imagine how good you'll be in less than a year or two.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Really, is that how numbers work?

How condescending and unneeded, especially when you've seemingly missed my point.

I wasn't suggesting that the loss of Vlastuin equals the loss of Gunston, Sicily and Wingard. However I feel it's rather disingenuous to point out that we are missing three of our best five players without acknowledging that they were missing (IMO) one of their best five players.

Really, is that how numbers work?

How condescending and unneeded, especially when you've seemingly missed my point.

I wasn't suggesting that the loss of Vlastuin equals the loss of Gunston, Sicily and Wingard. However I feel it's rather disingenuous to point out that we are missing three of our best five players without acknowledging that they were missing (IMO) one of their best five players.

Richmond won a GF without Vlastuin last year. He is a good player but is another cog in the wheel that is their backline. Isn't a game changer. You take Grimes or Martin out of this team it changes the dynamic dramatically. Grimes is the best general defender the game has seen since for a long time. I'd argue Rance was as good as he was because he had Grimes next to him. Grimes and Martin are equal to Sicily and Wingard in terms of the dynamic of the team. We will look alot better when we play them in round 23 if all 3 are playing.

 

[Grechy]

Tigers brand means even as the best team in the comp - they win by 30 against a bottom 6 or so side. Hawks of 2011-2015 would have put up a cricket score

I think the Hawks have enough quality in the middle to compete with most sides if they are playing well even if they're bottom 8. You smashed us last year when we were off. Tom Mitchell, O Meara, Shiels, Worpel - not really plodders.

 

[Linda CRS]

I've had a bit on today, so I'm still catching up...currently watching the second quarter knowing the final score.

In the second half we kicked 2.5. Tigers kick 3.5.

That seems a pretty good effort to me.

Love to agree but as you can see on the whole topic we are in love with mediocrity. But for a bit of class and a marking forward we were in it to win it today. Bloody disappointing unless we are the long term level of the saints and demons, standard is our true test.