Past Coach NMFC Senior Coach - David Noble has parted ways with NMFC

[Chadwiko]

I was really enjoying reading what chadwiko and themanbun were discussing.

Themanbun engaged the topic on issues, which I'm always happy to participate in. He didn't insinuate that the club is losing because we have a club policy on inclusion and engagement! How refreshing

 

[Mordecai]

Stuff it. Just a few exhibits from the match.

Exhibit A: pretend this isn't Cam Zurhaar and another medium North tall contesting here. In this image we have just won a contest in St Kilda's attacking half and are trying to rebound. So, pretend it's a jet of a KPF and a lightning quick small forward. If we win this contest, in which we're outnumbered to begin with - who do they kick to? They are the two North players furthest forward of the ball. They'll have to slow it up and wait for someone to stream forward.

View attachment 1141170

Exhibit B: About a second after this frame as St Kilda start moving forward, Larkey (top left of the image) starts running as hard as he can to CHB. He consciously makes a decision to do this, which I can only imagine is instruction. If we do manage to force a turnover, who is going to present to allow us to start going forward?

View attachment 1141172

Exhibit C: Thanks to Tom Powell, we won a contest about 40m out from St Kilda goals, and we start moving toward the left of screen. Tom handballs off to LDU who bites off a fantastic corridor kick. Larkey marks. He can't kick it to Zurhaar at the bottom of the screen, because Zurhaar has to steam forward to provide a presence in our 50 and structure up there. So he has to hold play up a tad to allow us to roll forward.

View attachment 1141175

Who are his options in sight? He chooses and successfully hits Taylor Garner, who is actually leading away from the ball carrier, probably no more than 20m away. He could have hit whoever the blur is at the bottom of the screen, but that's where our structure invites indecision and causes turnovers. There is not a single player leading at him and demanding the ball in a lane. Not one. They're all heading back towards the goals to re-establish a structure.

View attachment 1141178

Personnel alone is not going to fix this, IMO. I don't have access to scores from opposition turnovers but my guess is we'll be dead last, or thereabouts. We look much better coming off a centre clearance with the 6-6-6 rule mandating forward structure.

I'm confused - you don't want us to defend?

 

[The Warlord]

All frustrations and unhappiness with a team being 1-10 at the bye are completely valid and understandable.

Blaming the bloke brought in to oversee a full rebuild is not.

The Brisbane Lions model is what we should be looking at here, that's what the bloke himself continually points to.

 

[Themanbun]

I'm confused - you don't want us to defend?

Yes of course that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't want us to defend. What I'm really saying is I want all 18 of our blokes in the forward 50, for sure. Makes sense.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Did Noble actually give a press conference yesterday?

 

[The acurate one]

All frustrations and unhappiness with a team being 1-10 at the bye are completely valid and understandable.

Blaming the bloke brought in to oversee a full rebuild is not.

The Brisbane Lions model is what we should be looking at here, that's what the bloke himself continually points to.

They spent a good while down near the bottom, so it does take time unfortunately. Just got to make sure we get our drafting right. And personally I am not frustrated or unhappy with where we're currently at. It needed to happen.

 

[The Warlord]

They spent a good while down near the bottom, so it does take time unfortunately. Just got to make sure we get our drafting right. And personally I am not frustrated or unhappy with where we're currently at. It needed to happen.

Tbh I've written off this season and next in terms of doing anything.

Come 2023 however my expectation is we are in finals contention.

That's when I'll start really hammering Noble and his gameplan.

 

[Themanbun]

With all due respect to Noble, the Lions haven't got any further since their long ass rebuild started than we got with the bloke we all s**t can and blame for our present day problems.

That statement may not age well this year, but it's not like we're emulating the three-peat Lions or the dynasty Hawks or Tigers.

 

[muttley45]

It's OK to play this way though, because the short kicking + attempted corridor is going to be a key plank of the game plan for the next 5+ years.

The issue is having no aerial presence because the current forward personnel is physically not up to it.

So when that comes, through draft/trade/maybe Xerri and/or Comben can come on, I don't know - suddenly the short kicking + attempted corridor becomes wildly more effective because teams will be split between whether to defend that or the air, plus there are multiple ways of getting forward.

And when it happens, the team already has a running start with how to play the harder part of the game plan with precision disposal rather than starting from scratch there. Whenever the improvement happens, whether it's 12/18/24 months, it'll come quickly - it's just getting to that part feels like having a root canal every week.

Good post Rick, but i think that "precision disposal" is at least as, if not more important an "issue" than aerial presence at the moment.

 

[The Warlord]

With all due respect to Noble, the Lions haven't got any further since their long ass rebuild started than we got with the bloke we all sh*t can and blame for our present day problems.

That statement may not age well this year, but it's not like we're emulating the three-peat Lions or the dynasty Hawks or Tigers.

Both if which copped fearful beltings early on as their new game style was bedded in.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Staggering to claim a bloke in his first half year can't coach. Let alone one with a list like this.

FWIW, you can't claim he can coach either.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Where's Smiley?

 

[Ligma]

We need players who want to OWN the space. Too many times I’ve seen piss weak leads.

We need the leadership group to standup and demand to keep structure


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Themanbun]

Both if which copped fearful beltings early on as their new game style was bedded in.

Yep, I understand that. My concerns about this game plan's inability to score still stands and I worry won't improve all that much even with personnel improvements.

I hope I'm wrong. Noble has a good father-like personality and has shown he has an ability to switch to a plan B and change things up during a game. He has also got a lot out of some of our players, such as Aaron Hall, even our captain.

It's his Plan A that I'm a tad worried about. It's not helped by our fitness and our ordinary forwardline, that's for sure.

Perhaps I'm tuned into this issue pretty particularly as I've played with a similar style before and it didn't work out. I held off on commenting too much until I could get to a game in person, and once I did I couldn't un-see what I've been describing the past few pages.

There's so much more to strategy and structure than 'through the corridor' or 'down the wings'

 

[Snake_Baker]

With all due respect to Noble, the Lions haven't got any further since their long ass rebuild started than we got with the bloke we all sh*t can and blame for our present day problems.

That statement may not age well this year, but it's not like we're emulating the three-peat Lions or the dynasty Hawks or Tigers.

Yeah, that crap has already got tired, and it originates from the admin shills.

 

[The acurate one]

Tbh I've written off this season and next in terms of doing anything.

Come 2023 however my expectation is we are in finals contention.

That's when I'll start really hammering Noble and his gameplan.

Yes although I think 2022 will be much better if we have a reasonable run with injuries. The unfit are in for one hell of a preseason, that though will take a 2-3 seasons to get them where we believe they should be. And yes that is undoing past admin's mistakes. I do wonder how they'll handle boxing camp.

Also it must be remembered that we've had many years in the wilderness and it is much easier to be unsuccessful than successful, history isn't in Noble's corner.

ALthough I am confident we're on the right track, and I suppose you can't ask for more than that.

 

[Rick18]

An aerial presence isn't going to help us if we have no one leading at the ball carrier, though. My problem is with the hard 18 man press meaning that when we do get a fast break our blokes have to stop, prop and wait for us to roll forwards so that we can move forward.

The way we move our structures currently we have no way of going forward.

I think (hope, with all my fingers crossed) that when we do have that aerial presence, it allows whoever the second, third and fourth forwards end up being to transition to more of a leading/hit-up role rather than the pseudo pack markers Larkey and Zurhaar are kind of forced to be at the moment because there's no-one else.

The way the hypothetical plays out in my mind is let's say for example there's someone like a Naughton/McKay/Dixon type. That's your deepest guy actually forcing a defence to stretch out because they're worried about him, and in turn actually makes it easier for us to defend because teams don't get the luxury they have at the moment of knowing they'll rarely get hurt against the current forwards. Gives them licence to attack without cover and makes us have to roll hard back.

Then that creates extra room going forward when/if we do get possession for the leading types. I mean it's all going to take ages to figure out anyway so won't be like we'll see a solution any time soon.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I think (hope, with all my fingers crossed) that when we do have that aerial presence, it allows Larkey, Zurhaar and co to transition to more of a leading/hit-up role rather than the pseudo pack markers they're kind of forced to be at the moment because there's no-one else.

This has stood out to me like dogs balls since ~ round 4.

Do you get the impression that Noble doesn't really value this as much as you or I would?

 

[Themanbun]

I think (hope, with all my fingers crossed) that when we do have that aerial presence, it allows whoever the second, third and fourth forwards end up being to transition to more of a leading/hit-up role rather than the pseudo pack markers Larkey and Zurhaar are kind of forced to be at the moment because there's no-one else.

The way the hypothetical plays out in my mind is let's say for example there's someone like a Naughton/McKay/Dixon type. That's your deepest guy actually forcing a defence to stretch out because they're worried about him, and in turn actually makes it easier for us to defend because teams don't get the luxury they have at the moment of knowing they'll rarely get hurt against the current forwards. Gives them licence to attack without cover and makes us have to roll hard back.

Then that creates extra room going forward when/if we do get possession for the leading types. I mean it's all going to take ages to figure out anyway so won't be like we'll see a solution any time soon.

I do agree that an extra dangerous big forward will assist, a little bit anyway. When Snake talks about 'playing to our strengths', I feel like the current zone compression is making an already weak forwardline even less potent, holds up our fast play through the corridor, and probably isn't the way we should want to play when we do get the elusive KPF we desperately need.

Happy to disagree and I think we'll be revisiting this in a year or two with a bit more conclusive evidence of what the long term plan was.

 

[Rick18]

This has stood out to me like dogs balls since ~ round 4.

Do you get the impression that Noble doesn't really value this as much as you or I would?

No idea to be honest - I value it hugely, and I think we'll all find out of the intention this off-season through trade, draft and FA. Have to get it right because there's no point building what looks like a potentially great midfield if the forwards top out at league average.

 

[Zondor]

I think (hope, with all my fingers crossed) that when we do have that aerial presence, it allows whoever the second, third and fourth forwards end up being to transition to more of a leading/hit-up role rather than the pseudo pack markers Larkey and Zurhaar are kind of forced to be at the moment because there's no-one else.

The way the hypothetical plays out in my mind is let's say for example there's someone like a Naughton/McKay/Dixon type. That's your deepest guy actually forcing a defence to stretch out because they're worried about him, and in turn actually makes it easier for us to defend because teams don't get the luxury they have at the moment of knowing they'll rarely get hurt against the current forwards. Gives them licence to attack without cover and makes us have to roll hard back.

Then that creates extra room going forward when/if we do get possession for the leading types. I mean it's all going to take ages to figure out anyway so won't be like we'll see a solution any time soon.

Well Noble could’ve tried Xerri in that deep forward role this week. :stern look

 

[Mordecai]

Yes of course that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't want us to defend. What I'm really saying is I want all 18 of our blokes in the forward 50, for sure. Makes sense.

ok yeah, that's not the way forward. You defend, you don't cheat by letting your man run off you... sorry.

 

[Themanbun]

ok yeah, that's not the way forward. You defend, you don't cheat by letting your man run off you... sorry.

Sarcasm detector might need a tune up mate!

 

[RossHenshaw]

This has stood out to me like dogs balls since ~ round 4.

Do you get the impression that Noble doesn't really value this as much as you or I would?

For a campaigner like you Snake who’s only pathetic contributions are from a virtual anonymous keyboard. A campaigner who does not contribute a cent to the NMFC in any shape or form , does not attend any games & is outright rude & disrespectful to so many here on BigFooty .
Quite frankly , as far as what you say that you value ?

 

[amaz199]

Really solid discussion going on here.

This game plan kinda reminds me of the one we deployed against Richmond in 2013 that resulted in an 11 goal spanking.

But the difference was our forward being placed forward of centre and ready to lead up, (whilst numbers streamed forward) and prevent Richmond players from pressuring the ball carrier with those numbers. We went through the corridor at will and it was easy because the numbers meant we kept the opposition accountable and there was actually someone there to lead at the ball.

So basically, when Richmond went inside 50, we flooded the D50, retrieved the ball from turnover and manically ran forward to provide loose options. Richmond had no choice but to man those options and hope there was a turnover or outnumber. But because of the numbers, there weren't. (e.g. Black could lead up with separation, and score from a brilliant and composed Harvey kick.)

If even Harvey has no one to kick to, he too will stop and go sideways if he can't be arsed to take 7 bounces.

There has to be someone there. Defensive structures are not everything.

Not inside 50, but just far enough for a quick kick and someone else runs inside for an easy chest mark.