List Mgmt. "Gold Pass" Mackay: Put a fork in him

[Scorpus]

More specifically to Mackay, have any of the coaches that rated him ever been successful during or after their stints with us?

I mean they obviously weren't successful with us, but none have gone on to win flags as coaches at other teams, whether as head coaches or assistants. Multiple of those coaches aren't even in the coaching system any more

Neil Craig - failed with us, then had stints at cellar dwellars Carlton, Melbourne and Essendon. Now out of coaching entirely
Mark Bickley - caretaker, then assistant under Sanderson, out of coaching within years
Brenton Sanderson - failed with us, since been assistant at Collingwood who have also done nothing
Phil Walsh - died, would be harsh to assess him
Scott Camporeale - caretaker, long stint as assistant with us, sacked and now out of coaching
Don Pyke - a fail but the closest to success, now a coach at Sydney (jury is out)
Matthew Nicks - current coach so has the possibility of success

I think the whole "seven coaches rated him" argument would hold more sway if any of them had been proven successful in either our system or another's. But that hasn't happened

 

[skam85]

Wasn't the word that Walsh was going to drop Mackay after the Brisbane game?

 

[RoweyThePainter]

More specifically to Mackay, have any of the coaches that rated him ever been successful during or after their stints with us?

I mean they obviously weren't successful with us, but none have gone on to win flags as coaches at other teams, whether as head coaches or assistants. Multiple of those coaches aren't even in the coaching system any more

Neil Craig - failed with us, then had stints at cellar dwellars Carlton, Melbourne and Essendon. Now out of coaching entirely
Mark Bickley - caretaker, then assistant under Sanderson, out of coaching within years
Brenton Sanderson - failed with us, since been assistant at Collingwood who have also done nothing
Phil Walsh - died, would be harsh to assess him
Scott Camporeale - caretaker, long stint as assistant with us, sacked and now out of coaching
Don Pyke - a fail but the closest to success, now a coach at Sydney (jury is out)
Matthew Nicks - current coach so has the possibility of success

I think the whole "seven coaches rated him" argument would hold more sway if any of them had been proven successful in either our system or another's. But that hasn't happened

Pyke a fail? Coached 3 full years. 2nd on ladder until last rnd in '16, Finished top lost GF in '17, 1 game out of 8 in 18 ... gone.

Now at Sydney who have surprised everyone. Coincidence?

 

[1970crow]

Wasn't the word that Walsh was going to drop Mackay after the Brisbane game?

was going to drop someone. Definitely said he was going to be looking at the 2s to improve the 22. Pretty much went unchanged against Eagles, VB the first to go and Dmac and Reilly the next couple of weeks from memory.

 

[1970crow]

Pyke a fail? Coached 3 full years. 2nd on ladder until last rnd in '16, Finished top lost GF in '17, 1 game out of 8 in 18 ... gone.

Now at Sydney who have surprised everyone. Coincidence?

coaches 4 full years. 5th, 2nd, 12th and 11th

 

[Burtonsgottago]

Wow, I think thats either an extremely harsh or extremely lazy opinion. But each to his own.

If the ball bounces the way it would have 99 times out of 100 in that drawn grand final - St.Kilda goes up 5 points with 90 seconds to go and likely wins. If one bounce of the ball can change your opinion of whether a guy with over 300 games and 3 grand final appearances is a failure or success as a coach - I think its a rather shitty opinion.

Any team he coached was horrible to watch. Anti-football.

 

[AFC979810]

St Kilda were behind for the entire match up until half way through the fourth quarter. Then the following week they were comprehensively beaten. The bounce was one small element in a game where St Kilda weren't the better side and this was proven 7 days later

He had four opportunities to win a grand final and in none of them was he able to put his side into a commanding position. Let's not forget he also lost two prelims, both from top 4 finishes, one from finishing 1st after the H&A season.

I would say that up by 7 points at 3/4 in a low scoring grand final would be putting a side in a commanding position.

In the 2009 grand final his side was all tied up with less than 5 minutes to go. What more can you ask of a coach?

In the 2010 grand final a crazy ball bounce prevented him from going 5 points up with 90 seconds to go. Not much more a coach can do.

His game plan was a proven failure in high pressure finals football. It may be harsh but I don't rate Ross Lyon, I never have, and outside of his poor finals record he had the uncanny knack of destroying lists. To come out with zero flags from 5 genuine seasons of attempts, 4 grand finals in total, is a fail.

I completely disagree. Look at the coaching careers of Worsfold and Roos. Both of them were one kick away from being 2X premiership coaches. Both of them were also one kick away from coaching 268 (roos) and 387 (Woosha) games without a flag.

They along with Lyon and Buckley are very good coaches - not failures.

 

[AFC979810]

Any team he coached was horrible to watch. Anti-football.

Don't disagree. Doesn't mean it wasnt extremely effective.

 

[AFC979810]

More specifically to Mackay, have any of the coaches that rated him ever been successful during or after their stints with us?

I mean they obviously weren't successful with us, but none have gone on to win flags as coaches at other teams, whether as head coaches or assistants. Multiple of those coaches aren't even in the coaching system any more

Neil Craig - failed with us, then had stints at cellar dwellars Carlton, Melbourne and Essendon. Now out of coaching entirely
Mark Bickley - caretaker, then assistant under Sanderson, out of coaching within years
Brenton Sanderson - failed with us, since been assistant at Collingwood who have also done nothing
Phil Walsh - died, would be harsh to assess him
Scott Camporeale - caretaker, long stint as assistant with us, sacked and now out of coaching
Don Pyke - a fail but the closest to success, now a coach at Sydney (jury is out)
Matthew Nicks - current coach so has the possibility of success

I think the whole "seven coaches rated him" argument would hold more sway if any of them had been proven successful in either our system or another's. But that hasn't happened

Coaching is damn tough. How you say Don Pyke is a failure is beyond me.

Same as Neil Craig.

Its also interesting to see how much "successful" coaches fail at their next gig.

Look at Blight after he left here and went to St. Kilda. Woosha at Essendon. Roos at Melbourne.

 

[AFC979810]

Further more Scorpus how do you compare Ross Lyon/Buckley to Chris Scott?

Chris Scott -
1 Flag
2 grand final seasons.
Finals - 9 wins - 13 losses 40.9%record.
Regular Season - 161 wins 62 losses 71.6%

Ross Lyon -
0 Flags
3 Grand Finals
Finals 9 wins - 10 losses 45%
Regular Season - 163 wins 118 losses 57.2%

Nathan Buckley -
0 flags
1 grand final
Finals - 5 wins 7 losses 41.7%
Regular Season - 110 wins 92 losses 53.9%

I would say that Lyon is a better coach despite Scott having a flag.

 

[Burtonsgottago]

Don't disagree. Doesn't mean it wasnt extremely effective.

There is still a responsibility for those that put on the show to make it entertaining or else why should people care?

 

[glengowan]

He’s like Brent Reilly and Michael Doughty - his best football is at the end of his career.

I reckon he’s earnt spot in the 22 this season and last.

However, with a rebuild, I reckon his ideal position is as the medical sub. He’s professional enough to come on and impact when needed.

 

[AFC979810]

Wasn't the word that Walsh was going to drop Mackay after the Brisbane game?

Oh yeah absolutely. Forget my previous posts.

This rumour from 2016 certainly invalidates Mackays best 22 standing with 7 different coaches and 236 games at AFL level.

 

[AFC979810]

He’s like Brent Reilly and Michael Doughty - his best football is at the end of his career.

I reckon he’s earnt spot in the 22 this season and last.

However, with a rebuild, I reckon his ideal position is as the medical sub. He’s professional enough to come on and impact when needed.

Not against the idea of him being a medical sub.

Also - I think him and the other senior players are invaluable in the team right now. The shallow opinions of the bigfooty think tank very rarely take into consideration the intangibles.

 

[1970crow]

Not against the idea of him being a medical sub.

Also - I think him and the other senior players are invaluable in the team right now. The shallow opinions of the bigfooty think tank very rarely take into consideration the intangibles.

These ar3 the intangibles you've relied upon to support us never making player managenent mistakes in the past? The roosters have come home my friend, you lost the war.

 

[Golumless]

Coaching is damn tough. How you say Don Pyke is a failure is beyond me.

Same as Neil Craig.

Its also interesting to see how much "successful" coaches fail at their next gig.

Look at Blight after he left here and went to St. Kilda. Woosha at Essendon. Roos at Melbourne.

No Don Pyke absolutely deserves that tag. Look at the state he (and others) left us in. Ending up so toxic that we needed to hard reset.

Good coach, but ultimately his tenure is a failure.

 

[AFC979810]

These ar3 the intangibles you've relied upon to support us never making player managenent mistakes in the past? The roosters have come home my friend, you lost the war.

Oh sure we have made a shitload of mistakes in the past. We have also done plenty right.

Playing Mackay ain't one of the bad ones.

 

[jackster83]

He’s like Brent Reilly and Michael Doughty - his best football is at the end of his career.

I reckon he’s earnt spot in the 22 this season and last.

However, with a rebuild, I reckon his ideal position is as the medical sub. He’s professional enough to come on and impact when needed.

Reilly was in the AA squad in 2012, while Doughty had multiple top five finishes in the B&F (in a finals quality side).

Mackay has never come close to reaching those heights.

 

[AFC979810]

There is still a responsibility for those that put on the show to make it entertaining or else why should people care?

Winning is grinning. Thats all that matters to a head coach.

 

[skam85]

Oh yeah absolutely. Forget my previous posts.

This rumour from 2016 certainly invalidates Mackays best 22 standing with 7 different coaches and 236 games at AFL level.

Yet somehow a lot more valid than anything you've offered.

 

[1970crow]

2021 with David - 1 win, 5 losses -
2021 sans David - 3 wins, 2 losses -

Thank Christ for this bloke's version of team improvement. It's the intangibles that lead to that awesome improvement in performance.

 

[Scorpus]

Coaching is damn tough. How you say Don Pyke is a failure is beyond me.

Same as Neil Craig.

Its also interesting to see how much "successful" coaches fail at their next gig.

Look at Blight after he left here and went to St. Kilda. Woosha at Essendon. Roos at Melbourne.

You cannot seriously believe Don Pyke's tenure wasn't a failure. Maybe think for a few seconds about what happened under his lead

 

[skam85]

No Don Pyke absolutely deserves that tag. Look at the state he (and others) left us in. Ending up so toxic that we needed to hard reset.

Good coach, but ultimately his tenure is a failure.

Pyke was a beneficiary of what Walsh was building. The 18 month period after Walsh is the evidence of this.
Think Chris Scott with Bomber Thompson's team, only he fell into a flag out of it.

Everything else since then with our club is what Pyke was building post-GF. And it's not very good.

 

[skam85]

2021 with David - 1 win, 5 losses -
2021 sans David - 3 wins, 2 losses -

Thank Christ for this bloke's version of team improvement. It's the intangibles that lead to that awesome improvement in performance.

" Winning is grinning. Thats all that matters to a head coach."

 

[Scorpus]

Further more Scorpus how do you compare Ross Lyon/Buckley to Chris Scott?

Chris Scott -
1 Flag
2 grand final seasons.
Finals - 9 wins - 13 losses 40.9%record.
Regular Season - 161 wins 62 losses 71.6%

Ross Lyon -
0 Flags
3 Grand Finals
Finals 9 wins - 10 losses 45%
Regular Season - 163 wins 118 losses 57.2%

Nathan Buckley -
0 flags
1 grand final
Finals - 5 wins 7 losses 41.7%
Regular Season - 110 wins 92 losses 53.9%

I would say that Lyon is a better coach despite Scott having a flag.

Chris Scott has a flag and that makes him the more successful coach. Is he the better coach? Maybe not. But he is more successful, that's just a fact