Autopsy Round 16, 2021: Hawks fall over against Port

[Davo23]

Well, that’s as disappointing a game I’ve been to in a while. I can’t fault the effort, we were short on troops and too many inexperienced players trying to make up for missing players.

1. Will Day misses a week and we are no long comfortable in defence or have pace to attack. That says a lot, but it’s hard to reset the team when you bring in inexperience.

2. Gee I hate the campaigners from the Geelong 80’s teams - they suffered so much under Hawthorn dominance, and can’t bring themselves to say anything nice. Ken Hinkley was a squib, talented player but disappeared in big games against us, and can’t even give a
tribute to Shaun Burgoyne.

3. Speaking of which, Stephen Hocking has managed to make footy worse, more defensive and harder to watch. The “manning the mark” rule means that defensive teams structure up, and the team with the ball passes it endlessly across the backline, without the other team being able to challenge. Port used that to produce boring, abysmal footy for long periods. I don’t watch Port much but I’m hoping they won’t be on prime time any time soon!

4. Shaun Burgoyne: class act, great husband, father, family man. Still has some footy magic. There’s so much to admire!

Enjoy your life, Shaun, I’m sure it will be successful and happy.

Go Hawks!

 

[VandoHawk]

we seem to have a stack of players who get stuck in poor positions on the ground who cannot kick on both sides and end up going backwards or hack kicking it over there head 25 metres to try and get out of trouble.

I think this is a significant issue especially when we're going forward. Our backline is decent enough (even when missing key players) to handle Tommy's 25 metre kicks backwards. But a lot of players that are the last link in the attacking chain don’t have the footskills to execute a pass so often either miss the kick to a leading player or just bomb it long where the only hope of a contested mark is McEvoy. Some of it is attributable to poor forward positioning but I also think the heat has to fall on the mids for the slow, poor ball movement.

We really have to do something about the midfield mix but I really don't see a fix coming until trading/drafting. Cupboard is fairly bare.

 

[Lickmesocks]

I think this is a significant issue especially when we're going forward. Our backline is decent enough (even when missing key players) to handle Tommy's 25 metre kicks backwards. But a lot of players that are the last link in the attacking chain don’t have the footskills to execute a pass so often either miss the kick to a leading player or just bomb it long where the only hope of a contested mark is McEvoy. Some of it is attributable to poor forward positioning but I also think the heat has to fall on the mids for the slow, poor ball movement.

We really have to do something about the midfield mix but I really don't see a fix coming until trading/drafting. Cupboard is fairly bare.

Everyone keeps talking about our midfield.

If Jaeger Mitch and Worpel are not the answers then what is?

 

[H00t]

Yeh I think a lot of posters judge Cegs very harshly on this forum.

As a comparison for 2021 averages to Nic Nat see below

The hitouts are the are where Nic Nat obviously has a big advantage over Cegs (although he has that advantage over just about every other ruck in the game in this area) but all other statistical output he is comparable (and even has a significant advantage in marks per game)

To me we currently have an okay ruckman (Cegs) combined with a fairly pedestrian, one paced midfield.

You could put big Maxy in our side and I still think our midfield unit would get smacked most weeks.

	Disposals	Marks	Goals	Hitouts	Tackles
Jonathon Ceglar	13.14	4.00	0.29	18.43	2.00
Nic Naitanui	14.93	1.50	0.07	30.50	3.43

I’m actually really surprised Nic Nat has more disposals than Cegs especially given he often doesn’t get a lot of it and it’s Cegs’ strength.

The problem with Cegs is his stats often flatter him. The one thing he struggles with is his hit outs and directing the ball to our teammates advantage. He absolutely struggles with it and puts our mids behind all game as he gives the ball to the opposition all night.

 

[VandoHawk]

Everyone keeps talking about our midfield.

If Jaeger Mitch and Worpel are not the answers then what is?

Not the place to discuss it but some tough calls need to be made.

 

[Billyc]

Everyone keeps talking about our midfield.

If Jaeger Mitch and Worpel are not the answers then what is?

The draft. There’s nothing else to it, our midfield stocks are dreadful

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Everyone keeps talking about our midfield.

If Jaeger Mitch and Worpel are not the answers then what is?

The issue is purely of balance

We need to strengthen the group with another runner who can damage on the outside, maybe even two.

Remembering that not so long ago we had Hendo, Smith and Scully all streaming the length of the ground, so that Tom and JOM could hand off to someone who was more creative.

The big question is whether we add to the current group of inside mids, and ask them to distribute to the outside runners(Bramble, Saunders, Seamus, Downie) once more, or we change one or more of them out completely for someone who can play both inside and out.

 

[hawksfan71]

Very depressing game tbh I fell asleep as well, why does it take Clarkson till the game is over to move Burgoyne when Dunstal and Lewis in the commentary were suggesting it way earlier. It's scary to think next year will most likely be the same as this year. Why not bring new blood into the coaching at the end of this year.

 

[Accipiter]

The draft. There’s nothing else to it, our midfield stocks are dreadful

One thing that doesn't seem to get brought up is that we don't have an enforcer in the side. Not talking about a thug, but the type of player who makes others stand tall around him. The closest I can think of is Sicily but obviously he's not playing, and who knows whether he will be the same when he returns. I look at the build on a teenage Newcome and can see his potential as that type of player who will put the "where is Newcome" mentality into opposition players (the same way Derm did). Lot of water to go under the bridge of course but if we surround him with some speed and a semi-competent ruckman then we are well on the way.

 

[Scorpia21]

The use of Nash was baffling. He’s a hopeless forward, we know that. But he’s big and fast and earned a spot dominating in the midfield. We lack size and speed in the midfield. So we bring him into the seniors and let him rot in the forward line while the midfield gets smashed. Makes no sense. Either don’t play him or give him a proper go in the midfield

Absolutely correct!! Nash can't be blamed nor his fault his output is Crapola because of the above reasons

 

[WWSD]

The issue is purely of balance

We need to strengthen the group with another runner who can damage on the outside, maybe even two.

Remembering that not so long ago we had Hendo, Smith and Scully all streaming the length of the ground, so that Tom and JOM could hand off to someone who was more creative.

The big question is whether we add to the current group of inside mids, and ask them to distribute to the outside runners(Bramble, Saunders, Seamus, Downie) once more, or we change one or more of them out completely for someone who can play both inside and out.

Sounds like Finn Callaghan

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sounds like Finn Callaghan

And a couple of others(who may or may not be on the list already - aka Seamus, Saunders and Downie).

 

[Yardie]

Not so sure, another 1 or 2 just make certain, if he could be turned into a midfielder , mmmmmm?!

No way he can be turned into a midfielder. Especially when we don't play him there*.....

* - at AFL level

 

[Kuuz]

Like many sentiments on here, feel a bit sorry for Nash. Gets another run at AFL but different to the position he hit form in Box Hill. Happened every AFL match for him this year. I just don't get it - it's setting up a young man to fail, particularly where he's struggling to make the step up. Like, give him the tools to succeed because he's clearly too good for Box Hill level.

Feel a bit sorry for the kid. Clearly got some skill, clearly got some great physical attributes, but due to a mix of confidence + positional issues, he just cannot adapt. Hope he gets a string of 2 more games just to give him (probably) his last shot & hopefully gets a better run in the midfield.

Aside from that, Bramble was good, Kosi was solid, Worps had his moments and we poured development time into youngsters. May need a bit of a switch up next week, might be worth letting Jai have a run in Box Hill to get back to some form and apply the learnings from AFL.

 

[Hawks1994]

Was always going to be an up and down season; last week was fantastic, this week not so much

Opposition plays a part too though, Port are a well drilled outfit who just had too much class. Having said that, after quarter time I thought the game was about even across the ground and we had large periods of locking the ball down in the forward half, unfortunately couldn't make it pay

Onwards and upwards to next week!, hopefully we get a couple of those important players back in

Used to quite like Rozee too, but those theatrical antics are very poor indeed

 

[SammyC]

Balance and depth is a big part of the midfield problem, but we also often lose on the inside too.

With our mids, I can cop losing on the outside and not being as polished out of the stoppages, but we should never be bullied around the ball like we have been this year at times.

The second half last night was much more indicative of what we should serve up. Good contested numbers but not able to take full advantage.

 

[Accipiter]

Like many sentiments on here, feel a bit sorry for Nash. Gets another run at AFL but different to the position he hit form in Box Hill. Happened every AFL match for him this year. I just don't get it - it's setting up a young man to fail, particularly where he's struggling to make the step up. Like, give him the tools to succeed because he's clearly too good for Box Hill level.

Feel a bit sorry for the kid. Clearly got some skill, clearly got some great physical attributes, but due to a mix of confidence + positional issues, he just cannot adapt. Hope he gets a string of 2 more games just to give him (probably) his last shot & hopefully gets a better run in the midfield.

Aside from that, Bramble was good, Kosi was solid, Worps had his moments and we poured development time into youngsters. May need a bit of a switch up next week, might be worth letting Jai have a run in Box Hill to get back to some form and apply the learnings from AFL.

Can't believe I haven't noticed but does Worps have a left foot?

 

[Scorpia21]

For the first time ever I don't want Nash to be dropped next week and actually given a run in the middle. Baffling decision to play him forward tonight when he earned his selection by dominating the midfield in the 2s.

Everyone keeps talking about our midfield.

If Jaeger Mitch and Worpel are not the answers then what is?

This years draft adding elite midfield depth and the class and polish of Cerra. To complement thercurrent midfield group
Thank you very much

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

A

Kozzie has struggled the last month with no assistance. He needs help. Bring in Jeka. Persist for rest of season what else is there to lose?

Actually think he is going well at competing and bringing the ball to ground. Much better than earlier in the year. You don't get stats for that but I can see his confidence that he belongs at this level has gone up. Trying to impose himself is all we can ask for ATM.

 

[chopflop]

Don't know if it's been mentioned.
Nash had 8 disp. 4 of which were clearances. Why not give him a run in the centre square? Crazy non decision from clarko there.

 

[ScottMaginness]

Can't believe I haven't noticed but does Worps have a left foot?

Snap goal he kicked from the pocket was on his left.

 

[burner1]

Wines and Powell-Pepper are genuine bulls close to 100kg. JOM/Mitchel/worpel are relatively undersized - and struggle against these types (Eg cunnington always bullies us). We also struggle against the quick midfields - but can do okay against the right match ups (or when our half back line is so dominant it doesn’t matter).

We talk about balance but the issues is Mitchell, JOM, worpel isn’t the right mix - all same size and not quick, agile or damaging enough. It’s been the same problem for a while.

Freo’s midfield likely to cause us some trouble next week (but overall side isn’t great).

 

[Flamin Joe]

Very depressing game tbh I fell asleep as well, why does it take Clarkson till the game is over to move Burgoyne when Dunstal and Lewis in the commentary were suggesting it way earlier.

110% agree. Was doing my head in that we didn't move him forward when we were starting to challenge in the second half, but instead he was stuck largely in the backline unable to influence the contest just when we needed some polish up forward. And just to prove the point, I think it was in the last when it was too little too late, he gather the ball just outside our forward 50, dodged, weaved, while calmly sizing up his options, and then dished off a handpass which directly resulted in a goal. FMD.

 

[PhatHQ]

I thought Hartigan was the perfect match up for Dixon. Another bad move in the box for mine.

The Tank was on for sure

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Wines and Powell-Pepper are genuine bulls close to 100kg. JOM/Mitchel/worpel are relatively undersized - and struggle against these types (Eg cunnington always bullies us). We also struggle against the quick midfields - but can do okay against the right match ups (or when our half back line is so dominant it doesn’t matter).

We talk about balance but the issues is Mitchell, JOM, worpel isn’t the right mix - all same size and not quick, agile or damaging enough. It’s been the same problem for a while.

Freo’s midfield likely to cause us some trouble next week (but overall side isn’t great).

Very true.

Mitchell, Worps and JOM are all 184/185cm and 85 kilos.

Players like Powell Pepper, Petracca, etc who are pushing 100kgs will smash those guys at the contest (it's like a heavyweight vs a cruiserweight).

Really an ideal midfield should be a 100kg explosive physical beast, a fast runner with silky skills and a mid sized accumulator.

Whereas we have three accumulators.