Opinion Is it time for some clubs to re-name their Best & Fairest awards?

[Guardian Hawk]

Leigh Matthews was arguably the greatest player the game has seen and won the Hawthorn B&F a record 8 times. He was also a contemporary of the man the award is named after and obviously a better player.

With all that said, I would hate to see the Peter Crimmins medal renamed. It was named for reasons beyond 'who was the best player'. This little blurb sums it up well enough...

"Peter Crimmins was small in stature, but his presence loomed large at Hawthorn during his 176 games (1966-75). A tenacious rover and popular captain who helped establish the Hawks as a powerhouse in the Victorian (now Australian) Football League, the cheeky, blond-headed Crimmins was widely acclaimed as the most courageous player in the game. ‘Crimmo’ was a standout in Hawthorn’s victorious 1971 Grand Final victory over St Kilda; his dominant on-ball partnership with the legendary Leigh Matthews during that period was as dynamic as any the game had seen. But it was Crimmins’ off-field courage which endeared him to fans of all clubs. Appointed captain for 1974 he would play all but one game in the premiership season but missed Hawthorn’s finals campaign after he had a cancerous testicle removed. He returned to lead the team in 1975, before cancer again forced him to step away from the game. Undetered he made a valiant quest to be selected for the 1975 Grand Final. Hawthorn’s decision to overlook their skipper for that match remains the most controversial selection call in football history. Crimmins’s health deteriorated during 1976, yet he fought gamely to the end. After the Hawks secured the 1976 Premiership, Clive Mackinnon’s award-winning photograph of the gravely ill Crimmins surrounded by his jubilant teammates is one of the most emotive ever captured. Days later, Crimmins was dead. He was just 28. Having left behind wife Gwen (then 31), and sons Ben (4) and Sam (2), the outpouring of grief that followed was unprecedented for a footballer to that time. It was no surprise that Crimmins has been immortalisedat Hawthorn, with the club champion winning the Peter Crimmins Medal. In Crimmo: the Peter Crimmins story, Dan Eddy, with complete access to family records, describes Crimmins’ remarkable impact on his club, his teammates and Australian football."

Source: Crimmo - The Peter Crimmins Story (hawksmerchandise.com.au)

 

[Colonial]

This thread is a good example of stats not telling the story, especially when you are including local football matches for some and only top-level for others.

I like that Gold Coast have yet to name the B&F award, and the AFLW have not named their equivalent of the Brownlow and Norm Smith. It seems they are both waiting for someone to earn the honor, which can only come from history.

The Giants and their "Kevin Sheedy Medal" is one of the most cringeworthy things in football. Some AFL marketing working group came up with a terrible name for the club, a terrible song and prematurely named their B&F after someone who is not remembered for his association with the cub. They made a poor attempt to manufacture history and culture. A bit like the ridiculous Brett Kirk medal awarded for The Battle of the bridge.

Lol what? You lost me at terrible song.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

Leigh Matthews was arguably the greatest player the game has seen and won the Hawthorn B&F a record 8 times. He was also a contemporary of the man the award is named after and obviously a better player.

With all that said, I would hate to see the Peter Crimmins medal renamed. It was named for reasons beyond 'who was the best player'. This little blurb sums it up well enough...

"Peter Crimmins was small in stature, but his presence loomed large at Hawthorn during his 176 games (1966-75). A tenacious rover and popular captain who helped establish the Hawks as a powerhouse in the Victorian (now Australian) Football League, the cheeky, blond-headed Crimmins was widely acclaimed as the most courageous player in the game. ‘Crimmo’ was a standout in Hawthorn’s victorious 1971 Grand Final victory over St Kilda; his dominant on-ball partnership with the legendary Leigh Matthews during that period was as dynamic as any the game had seen. But it was Crimmins’ off-field courage which endeared him to fans of all clubs. Appointed captain for 1974 he would play all but one game in the premiership season but missed Hawthorn’s finals campaign after he had a cancerous testicle removed. He returned to lead the team in 1975, before cancer again forced him to step away from the game. Undetered he made a valiant quest to be selected for the 1975 Grand Final. Hawthorn’s decision to overlook their skipper for that match remains the most controversial selection call in football history. Crimmins’s health deteriorated during 1976, yet he fought gamely to the end. After the Hawks secured the 1976 Premiership, Clive Mackinnon’s award-winning photograph of the gravely ill Crimmins surrounded by his jubilant teammates is one of the most emotive ever captured. Days later, Crimmins was dead. He was just 28. Having left behind wife Gwen (then 31), and sons Ben (4) and Sam (2), the outpouring of grief that followed was unprecedented for a footballer to that time. It was no surprise that Crimmins has been immortalisedat Hawthorn, with the club champion winning the Peter Crimmins Medal. In Crimmo: the Peter Crimmins story, Dan Eddy, with complete access to family records, describes Crimmins’ remarkable impact on his club, his teammates and Australian football."

Source: Crimmo - The Peter Crimmins Story (hawksmerchandise.com.au)

Leigh Matthews was my first thought for the Hawks if there was anyone they were going to change it for.

I don’t mean to be insincere, however would the award have been named after Peter Crimmins if it wasn’t for his tragic circumstances?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Exactly.

for example, I’d say Boomer Harvey is more of a North icon than Syb Barker from an outsider view?

Who played / coaches more games under Essendon.

If he’s the games record holder in 50 years, does he perhaps not deserve the honour?

You need to read some history. Brent Harvey was a professional footballer who happened to be drafted by North Melbourne. Syd Barker was a towering figure in a critical phase for North that ultimastely led to their admission to the then VFL. I would go as far as to say that had Barker not been involved at North they would likely have remained in the VFA, and ultimately gone the way of clubs like Brunswick, Prahran and Yarraville who met their demise around the onset of the national AFL competition era. That he Captain-Coached two VFL flags at Essendon whilst North were in the VFA was a mere accident of an anticipated merger between North and Essendon.

He also spent time in his early days playing for the now defunct Essendon Dreadnoughts in the VFA, and as a 20yo, played a season at Richmond, their first season in the VFL, validating him as a person.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Leigh Matthews was my first thought for the Hawks if there was anyone they were going to change it for.

I don’t mean to be insincere, however would the award have been named after Peter Crimmins if it wasn’t for his tragic circumstances?

I'm not sure it's relevant to be honest. The way in which he navigated those tragic circumstances and helped galvanise a team, his positive/team first out look and the success that Hawthorn went on to experience (after previously being a basket case) are all huge factors in him receiving the honour and being the kind of character you want future Hawthorn players to try and emulate.

Not to mention, that had he not got sick, he would have most likely been a 4 time premiership player, 3 time premiership captain and most likely our games record holder to that point (he'd played 170 games by age 25 before his first bout of cancer).

More than deserving either way you look at it IMO.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

You need to read some history. Brent Harvey was a professional footballer who happened to be drafted by North Melbourne. Syd Barker was a towering figure in a critical phase for North that ultimastely led to their admission to the then VFL. I would go as far as to say that had Barker not been involved at North they would likely have remained in the VFA, and ultimately gone the way of clubs like Brunswick, Prahran and Yarraville who met their demise around the onset of the national AFL competition era. That he Captain-Coached two VFL flags at Essendon whilst North were in the VFA was a mere accident of an anticipated merger between North and Essendon.

He also spent time in his early days playing for the now defunct Essendon Dreadnoughts in the VFA, and as a 20yo, played a season at Richmond, their first season in the VFL, validating him as a person.

As I mentioned in the OP, obviously everyone who has the award named after them has been significant for their club.

Taking nothing away from Syd Barker, but that was 100 years ago. Over 100 years, has their been another figure at North that has surpassed him in terms of what they have achieved and brought to the club/game?

 

[Ron The Bear]

No point trying to rewrite clubs' history for them. It's nobody else's business who their awards are named for.

On a related note, my cricket club's premier playing award was named after Peter Crimmins during the formative years of the club. There were family connections to the club but no personal connection directly to Peter. A few years ago the club renamed the award after seeking permission from the Crimmins family.

 

[Lemma]

I had no idea Syd Barker coached/played for Essendon, that's gross. Yep all aboard the Boomer Harvey Medal

Or call it the Adam Simpson Medal while he is still coaching West Coast. Power move.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Leigh Matthews was my first thought for the Hawks if there was anyone they were going to change it for.

I don’t mean to be insincere, however would the award have been named after Peter Crimmins if it wasn’t for his tragic circumstances?

These awards are so named because of the significance of the person in the club’s history. Not because Champion Data says they were the highest rating player in a certain period.

 

[Murraj1966]

Over every St Kilda person's dead body would we rename the Trevor Barker Award.

Trevor Barker is the embodiment of strength through loyalty. He persisted with a shambles of a club paying him shit when Carlton and every other brown paper bag club tried to prise him out. He provided a weekly highlight when there was nothing to expect but a belting and was odds on to be our next coach before his tragic passing.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

The John Nicholls should probably be re-named.

The others seem fine.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

As I mentioned in the OP, obviously everyone who has the award named after them has been significant for their club.

Taking nothing away from Syd Barker, but that was 100 years ago. Over 100 years, has their been another figure at North that has surpassed him in terms of what they have achieved and brought to the club/game?

I wouldn’t have thought so. Maybe someone like Alan Aylett. Barker was North Melbourne through a critical phase of the club’s development. A great leader, and truly great player.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

These awards are so named because of the significance of the person in the club’s history. Not because Champion Data says they were the highest rating player in a certain period.

And this topic has absolutely nothing to do with champion data ranking points so not sure why that needs to be mentioned.

It’s about the influence of others at their respective clubs following those that the award had been named after?

Again, some awards are named after someone from 100 odd years ago, I’m sure the club has had many other very significant people since then and is it time some are changed to recognise them?

 

[LoungeLizard]

And this topic has absolutely nothing to do with champion data ranking points so not sure why that needs to be mentioned.

It’s about the influence of others at their respective clubs following those that the award had been named after?

Again, some awards are named after someone from 100 odd years ago, I’m sure the club has had many other very significant people since then and is it time some are changed to recognise them?

But why do they need to be changed?

Can't they add an award, or name 2nd place in B&F, like Collingwood do?

A grandstand at Home matches like Essendon do?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

The John Worsfold medal makes perfect sense for us. I imagine in 50 years though somone will start a thread saying who was this John Worsfold and what did he ever do compared to Jaxtynn Smith who won a Brownlow and a premiership, and never gave away a 50m penalty for moving on the mark.

 

[nineteen eighty]

And there are many ways to honour champions of the future while keeping the tradition.

Just my opinion, but tradition like Copeland, is why Collingwood even exist, why would you even think of changing it.

The only point I'll take up with you is that the word tradition is being used incorrectly in this instance. Rather than tradition, we should use the word "history"

Under no circumstances would I look to change any of them. There is history behind each one...regardless of whether they are players or administrators.

Respect history!!!

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

But why do they need to be changed?

Can't they add an award, or name 2nd place in B&F, like Collingwood do?

A grandstand at Home matches like Essendon do?

None of them need to change and recognition of where you begin and tradition is certainly a big part of a clubs history.

It’s about recognition of players/staff from recent history as well. Do some of them deserve the honour?

Absolutely naming stands is one way of doing that or other awards. However my view is that having the B&F named after yourself is particularly prestigious.

Do the current names hold on for eternity or in 50/100/150 years (assuming the AFL still exists), when past connections to those players has been lost, do they get renamed? Or in some cases, sooner?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

No this isn’t an us Vs them Vic thing again.

Its a fact that some clubs have named their B&F awards after players from the 1920s/VFA days who only played 100 odd games in a lower level league. In comparison to others that followed after them, should they continue to hold the honour of the B&F?

History doesn’t start the day you were born. Understand what you are doing here. You are desecrating the memory of many people who were hugely significant in the histories of what are some of the oldest sporting clubs in the world. Clubs that grew organically with the suburbs they represented.

Loads of these people devoted their energies to their clubs for no financial reward, and in one way or another brought great honour to their clubs. You are now coming along admitting to no great knowledge of the context of their deeds and supposing to know better than the very clubs themselves as to who they should honour most.

Go and read properly about the history of all these magnificent old clubs and then come back to us. Outrageous thread.

EDIT: I term Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon ”magnificent” only in the context of this thread, and nowhere else.

 

[JMarra]

I think clubs need to get with the times. So, to make players feel good about themselves each player on the list should get a participation award named after a club champion. That way club legends are recognised and all current players get an award including a Hungry Jack's voucher. Win win .

 

[LoungeLizard]

None of them need to change and recognition of where you begin and tradition is certainly a big part of a clubs history.

It’s about recognition of players/staff from recent history as well. Do some of them deserve the honour?

Absolutely naming stands is one way of doing that or other awards. However my view is that having the B&F named after yourself is particularly prestigious.

Do the current names hold on for eternity or in 50/100/150 years (assuming the AFL still exists), when past connections to those players has been lost, do they get renamed? Or in some cases, sooner?

I get the impression you don't hold tradition/history as highly as some others do.

Like I said my club would not exist without Copeland, other clubs have very good reasons why they name awards after players/admin, should we all just forget them when something better comes along?

Like I said, why change it when you can name some other award/stand, every club honours champions anyway, they all have honour rolls.

 

[powerrrrrrrrrrrr]

History doesn’t start the day you were born. Understand what you are doing here. You are desecrating the memory of many people who were hugely significant in the histories what are some of the oldest sporting clubs in the world. Clubs that grew organically with the suburbs they represented.

Loads of these people devoted their energies to their clubs for no financial reward, and in one way or another brought great honour to their clubs. You are now coming along admitting to no great knowledge of the context of their deeds and supposing to know better than the very clubs themselves as to who they should honour most.

Go and read properly about the history of all these magnificent old clubs and then come back to us. Outrageous thread.

EDIT: I term Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon ”magnificent” only in the context of this thread, and nowhere else.

There is precedence where clubs have changed the name of their B&F award.

For example, Carlton.

Renamed the Robert Reynolds trophy to the John Nicholls award in 2004 due to Reynolds being an administrator and not a player.

John Nicholls: The man who owns the Blues best and fairest

For the great John Nicholls, the renaming of the Club's best and fairest award in his honour is the ultimate accolade.

www.carltonfc.com.au

It’s a discussion thread, don’t get so worked up over the idea of change throughout history and time.

 

[Wojcinski]

Carji Greeves was a 2x VFL premiership player, not VFA

He also won the first ever Brownlow Medal, There is no way in green hell that Geelong would be changing the name of the B&F, this thread belongs in the bin.

 

[scoman]

Perhaps the Doggies go with the Matt Stevic Medal?


Sorry, but I just couldn't help it.

 

[Goomba1973]

Looking over the names of all the clubs B&F awards, it appears from the outside that some are named after players who in comparison to others, have received significantly fewer playing or coaching accolades over their careers for their respective clubs.

I mean no disrespect to these past players and they have obviously had huge impacts on their clubs and the development of the game in their own rights. However, is it time for a changing of the guard for some teams and who would you name it after for your club?

Changing the name would show greater recognition of clubs recent history rather than some going back to the 1920s/30s. As we can see below, some of the clubs have named their awards after player who I’m sure had a huge significance at their club, but may have since had others go well and truly past them in terms of influence and achievements.

I dont know the full stories behind a number of these players who have had the award named after them or the significane they played at their club, however I would argue that perhaps Melbourne, Bulldogs, Geelong, North Melbourne, Hawthorn, St Kilda, Essendon and Collingwood would all have past players deserving of the award being being changed in their name.

Melbourne:
Keith William "Bluey" Truscott
44 games and 31 goals
Enlisted in the RAAF in WW2

Bulldogs:
Charlie Sutton (42-56)
173 games 65 goals playing
162 games as coach
1x B&F, 1 x club Leading Goal kicker, Bulldogs Premiership coach

Port Adelaide:
John Cahill (58-73)
264 games 286 goals
624 games coached (inc Coll 47, West Ade 69 and South Ade 20)
4 x Premiership player, 4 x B&F, 1 x club Leading Goal kicker, 10 x Port Premiership coach,

Geelong
Carji Greeves (23-33)
124 games 17 goals
2 x VFA premiership player, 1924 Brownlow medalist (first awarded)

Swans:
Bon Skilton (56-71)
237 Games 412 goals
3 x Brownlow, 9 x B&F, 3 x club Leading Goal kicker

North Melbourne
-Syd Barker (1907-27)
-68 games 25 goals. VFA/VFL (57 Essendon)
-61 games coaches (43 Essendon)
-4 x Nth premiership player, 2 x Essendon Premiership Coach

Hawthorn
-Peter Crimmins (66-75)
-176 games 231 goals
-1 x Premiership player
-Tragically passed away aged 28 with testicular cancer

St Kilda
-Trevor Barker (75-89)
-230 games 134 goals
-2 x B&F

Fremantle
-George Doig (33-45)
-202 games 1095 goals
-3 x premiership player, 6 x WA LG, 9 x club Leading Goal kicker

West Coast
-John Worsfold (86-98)
-233 games 41 goals
-387 games coach (281 WCE)
-1 x B&F, 2 x Premiership player, 1 x Premiership coach

Adelaide
-Malcolm Blight (68-82)
-330 games 786 goals
-364 games coach (74 with Ade)
-2 x VFL premiership player, Brownlow medalist, Coleman medalist, 4 x North Leading Goal kicker, Margery medal, Ken farmer medal, 2 x AFL premiership coach (Ade)

Carlton
-John Nicholls (57-74)
-328 Games, 307 Goals
-97 Games coach of Carlton
-3 X VFL Premiership player, 5 x B&F, 1 X Simpson Medal, Carlton's first 300 game player

Richmond
-Jack Dyer (31-49)
-311 Games, 443 Goals
-222 Games coach of Richmond
-2 X VFL Premiership Player, 5 X B&F, 2 x club Leading Goal kicker, 1X VFL Premiership Coach

Essendon
-Wally Crichton
-No games played
-Essendon committee member 1926-31, Vice President 32-40, President 41-59 and VFL Delegate 34-58

GWS
-Kevin Sheedy (67-79)
-251 Games, 91 Goals (Richmond)
-634 Games Coach (Essendon), 44 GWS Coach
-Inaugural GWS Coach, 3 x VFL Premiership Player, 1 X B&F, 4 X V/AFL Premiership Coach

Gold Coast
-Simply referred to as 'Club Champion Award'

Brisbane
-Merrett-Murray
-Merrett (78-96) / Murray (55-66)
-Merrett 313 Games, 433 Goals (149 Essendon, 164 Brisbane Bears)
-Murray 377 Games, 71 Goals (333 Fitzroy, 44 East Perth)
-Merrett awards - VFL Gardiner Medal, 2 x Essendon Premiership player, 3 x Brisbane Bears Leading Goal kicker
-Murray awards - 1 x Brownlow medalist, 9 X Fitzroy B&F, 2 X All Australian, East Perth B&F

Collingwood
-Copeland Trophy
-Named after Ern Copeland who was the club secretary in 1895, retiring in 1924.

Ahh the cancel culture to appease the newbies, so in 30 years you can change it again to appease a new batch of newbies.... so no.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

The medals that could be considered changing are the Brownlow and the Coleman medal. Both a relics of the old VFL that don't apply to the current AFL.