Best forward 6 of all time

[TheEscapeClub]

He was definitely prone to getting injured at the wrong time.

Had a good year in 1987 - won our goalkicking over Ablett (62 goals to 53), then in 1988 started the season in red hot form. Kicked 5 against the Eagles in Round 1, then 9.6 in a great win over North. One of the best displays I've ever seen by a Geelong forward.

The following week - pinged his hamstring early on. Missed the next 7 games. Summed it up really.

I always remember him having a flying shot at goal at the SCG, he was almost on the wing and kicked a barrel that hit the top of the goal post.

There was always talk at the time too that he did his own contracts and was the highest paid player at the club.

 

[Chat Pile]

- won our goalkicking over Ablett (62 goals to 53),

Wow that seems like a low goal count for back then. Was the goalkicking spread pretty large and even for geelong that year?

 

[Seeds]

Wow that seems like a low goal count for back then. Was the goalkicking spread pretty large and even for geelong that year?

They were 8 and 10 in the league goal kicking ladder. On top, ablett missed 5 games that season and lindner missed 4 games. Geelong also had number 11 in mick turner on the vfl ladder. 3 in the top 11 is not bad for a team that doesnt make finals.

 

[Chat Pile]

They were 8 and 10 in the league goal kicking ladder. On top, ablett missed 5 games that season and lindner missed 4 games. Geelong also had number 11 in mick turner on the vfl ladder. 3 in the top 11 is not bad for a team that doesnt make finals.

Nah it's a great effort, just surprising given the names. I was unaware Geelong didn't make finals that year, I just assumed they did haha. I was still a couple years from being squirted into existence so my knowledge of that time is limited.

 

[freddy mercury]

Essendon:

Hird Salmon Mercuri
Bewick Lloyd Watson

Probably forgetting someone...

Richard Cole

 

[Seeds]

Nah it's a great effort, just surprising given the names. I was unaware Geelong didn't make finals that year, I just assumed they did haha. I was still a couple years from being squirted into existence so my knowledge of that time is limited.

While both were definately fowards they werent traditional full fowards like dunstall or lockett. Ablett only became that from 1993 onwards.

 

[doofdoof]

Convenient that you left out Bangladesh who aside from actually being regularly competitive at home have started to win in all formats away as well.
Not sure why you wouldn’t count the West Indies.
They won their last series against England.
Australia didn’t.

Because it suits your argument, perhaps?

You're joking, right? Bangladesh is first tier?

If you want to include Bangladesh, I can add Switzerland, Germany and Latvia.

Still, you didn't address any of my other arguments.

1. Who cares if it is 7 or 8 nations as the threshold. There is no difference
2. Ice hockey is a much bigger global sport in terms of economic value

 

[kreuze_missile]

Martin McKay Cunningham
Motlop Curnow Owies

 

[PhatBoy]

You're joking, right? Bangladesh is first tier?

If you want to include Bangladesh, I can add Switzerland, Germany and Latvia.

Still, you didn't address any of my other arguments.

1. Who cares if it is 7 or 8 nations as the threshold. There is no difference
2. Ice hockey is a much bigger global sport in terms of economic value

Yes, amazingly, teams that are beating teams ranked at the top, are first tier. Bangladesh literally beat India in the last week.

Economic value plays a role in determining someone’s standing within the relative sporting landscape?

So the IPL teams that are of similar value to the standard NHL side, where do they fit in?

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Is this the best 6 no matter of position or how they would actually function as a forward line? Because it's a pretty different thing.

A lot of people posting teams with 4 (or more KPF). For instance with Hawthorn, I highly doubt Brereton, Buddy, Dunstall and Hudson would function very well at all, especially if you want to throw Matthews in there.

It's like all the NBA "build your team to beat this squad" that lists the best players of all time. Player's like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird wouldn't actually function that well in the same line up, because they are all ball dominant, want to take all the shots and have big egos etc.

 

[Lingsface]

Is this the best 6 no matter of position or how they would actually function as a forward line? Because it's a pretty different thing.

A lot of people posting teams with 4 (or more KPF). For instance with Hawthorn, I highly doubt Brereton, Buddy, Dunstall and Hudson would function very well at all, especially if you want to throw Matthews in there.

It's like all the NBA "build your team to beat this squad" that lists the best players of all time. Player's like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird wouldn't actually function that well in the same line up, because they are all ball dominant, want to take all the shots and have big egos etc.

That’s a good question I think it’s hypothetical so best names is probably the way that it’s viewed as the best, your point is valid though and having a mix of defensive ground ball and marking would be ideal,l. Most people seem to of taken that into account with the Hawthorn sides either having Rioli Matthews or Breust as smaller players.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Hawthorn could have 2 top 6's that are to envy

Hendrie 254 Franklin 580 (1066) Breust 528
Moncrieff 629 Hudson 727 (1721) Rioli 275

Gunston 410 Roughead 578 Brereton 427 (464)
Lethal 915 Dunstall 1254 Peck 475

( ) denotes total goals

For all Hawks fans, Gary Buckenara, one of my favourite Hawks players- is he ahead of Hendrie?

Great question re: Buckenara v Hendrie as they are similar players with similar records.

Hendrie kicked 254 goals from 197 games as a 'high' half forward with a raking left foot. Would have loved there to be assist numbers at the time as he was one of the best passes into 50 with Hudson, Matthews and others enjoying his service. In '75, he was third in the Brownlow, in '76 he won the flag and was voted best on in the Grand final, in '77 he kicked 52 goals and in '78 he was again a key member of the premiership side. Was selected to represent the state every year as a half forward.

Buckenara was also a half forward with impeccable kicking and passing skills. He kicked 293 goals (from 154 games). He played in 4 flags and was dominant at Subiaco in 79-81 (named in their TOTC after just 100 games and winning the Simpson medal for best player in the State game) before joining Hawthorn in 1982. IN '83, they won the flag and Bucky was AA. Bucky was again AA in '85 and '86 and in the team of the year in '88. He was regularly top 3 in the B&F in one of the greatest teams ever assembled and regularly represented the state.

Ultimately I think Buckenara has the edge. He was chosen in Hawthorn's team of the century (as well as Subiaco's) ahead of Hendrie and kicked 40 more goals from 40 less games. He had more seasons at the absolute elite level and was just as good at centre as he was at half forward. Underrated champion.

 

[Lingsface]

Great question re: Buckenara v Hendrie as they are similar players with similar records.

Hendrie kicked 254 goals from 197 games as a 'high' half forward with a raking left foot. Would have loved there to be assist numbers at the time as he was one of the best passes into 50 with Hudson, Matthews and others enjoying his service. In '75, he was third in the Brownlow, in '76 he won the flag and was voted best on in the Grand final, in '77 he kicked 52 goals and in '78 he was again a key member of the premiership side. Was selected to represent the state every year as a half forward.

Buckenara was also a half forward with impeccable kicking and passing skills. He kicked 293 goals (from 154 games). He played in 4 flags and was dominant at Subiaco in 79-81 (named in their TOTC after just 100 games and winning the Simpson medal for best player in the State game) before joining Hawthorn in 1982. IN '83, they won the flag and Bucky was AA. Bucky was again AA in '85 and '86 and in the team of the year in '88. He was regularly top 3 in the B&F in one of the greatest teams ever assembled and regularly represented the state.

Ultimately I think Buckenara has the edge. He was chosen in Hawthorn's team of the century (as well as Subiaco's) ahead of Hendrie and kicked 40 more goals from 40 less games. He had more seasons at the absolute elite level and was just as good at centre as he was at half forward. Underrated champion.

Brownie points for his recruiting efforts as well at the club.

 

[doofdoof]

Yes, amazingly, teams that are beating teams ranked at the top, are first tier. Bangladesh literally beat India in the last week.

Economic value plays a role in determining someone’s standing within the relative sporting landscape?

So the IPL teams that are of similar value to the standard NHL side, where do they fit in?

There are 32 NHL teams with total player payments between US$62 and US$81 million. The vast majority are at the cap.

How many of the 10 IPL teams even get close to the floor of US$62m (AU$95m) total player payment? Let alone the cap of US$81m (AU$124m)

Zero.

The salary cap in IPL is only $18.8 million in 2024.

Try opening you mind a little. The world is a big wonderful place.

 

[Blind Turn]

Yes I know it's based on the one about the best back 6 of all time and Hawthorn probably win this one, but since it's season over for 12 teams may as well...

The Eagles one is probably fairly weak but quite competitive.

Darling Kennedy Embley
Ph Matera Sumich LeCras

Post yours - or not.

I’d have Heady before Darling and Lewis before LeCras. Neither were more prolific in front of goal but both were better players and far more creative for those around them.

 

[PhatBoy]

There are 32 NHL teams with total player payments between US$62 and US$81 million. The vast majority are at the cap.

How many of the 10 IPL teams even get close to the floor of US$62m (AU$95m) total player payment? Let alone the cap of US$81m (AU$124m)

Zero.

The salary cap in IPL is only $18.8 million in 2024.

Try opening you mind a little. The world is a big wonderful place.

What does that even mean?
Money?
A hacker on the LIV tour can make more money in 4 days than the world’s best track athlete can in their career - how the hell does that factor into how widespread the sport is and the pool of people you’re competing with, and the achievements you’re reaching, in order to achieve a level of greatness?

Ice Hockey is not a huge worldwide sport mate, anyway you try and paint it. I’m more than happy to say that neither is cricket. But there are certainly enough people that give a s**t about it as to make someone who dominated to the extent that Bradman did, a worthy contender as the best sportsman of all time.

And I don’t need to open my mind, mate. I follow darts.

 

[Seeds]

Matthews shouldnt be in the hawks foward line. If you are putting together a best ever side matthews is starting in the mids not the fowards.

Also hudson and dunstall cant play in the same side either. The are both traditional full fowards that wouldnt play anywhere else. Can only pick 1.

now all of a sudden that hawks foward line isnt so much better then then the next couple on the list.

 

[PhatBoy]

Matthews shouldnt be in the hawks foward line. If you are putting together a best ever side matthews is starting in the mids not the fowards.

Also hudson and dunstall cant play in the same side either. The are both traditional full fowards that wouldnt play anywhere else. Can only pick 1.

now all of a sudden that hawks foward line isnt so much better then then the next couple on the list.

Yeah I think they’d manage with one at CHF somehow.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Matthews shouldnt be in the hawks foward line. If you are putting together a best ever side matthews is starting in the mids not the fowards.

Also hudson and dunstall cant play in the same side either. The are both traditional full fowards that wouldnt play anywhere else. Can only pick 1.

now all of a sudden that hawks foward line isnt so much better then then the next couple on the list.

Haha..firstly we are picking a best ever forward 6 so of course we can put Matthews forward, just as the AFL TOTC did. Not because he wasn't a better mid than the others available but because he was so much better forward that it allows you to pick an extra gun midfielder.

Secondly, plenty of teams play with 3 KPF's or with 2 and a '3rd tall'. If they were all available, you probably would pick more than 1, just as the State teams did to devastating effect (remember when Plugger, Dunstall and Ablett all played for the Big V?). Hudson would really suit the '3rd tall' role with his smarts and positioning.

Even if for some weird reason you want to force Hudson out of the side and Matthews 'only' rests forward from the midfield,I still think a combination of Dunstall (FF), Franklin (CHF) and one of Brereton, Roughead, Moncrieff (600+ goals) or Peck (3 straight Colemans) as the 3rd tall would still be pretty bloody handy. Without Matthews, we would only have Rioli, Breust, Buckenara or Jarman to pick for the remaining pocket/flank.

Still formidable, even after you find reasons to remove 2 of the best ever.

 

[Warhorse]

Others have said Hawthorn's best forward 6 all time (Hudson, Dunstall, Matthews and Franklin must be included, the last slots all arguable), but Hawthorn's best forward 6 who all played in the same team recently is pretty extraordinary:

Lewis Franklin Gunston
Rioli Roughhead Bruest

All genuine stars of the game.

Just about the perfect balance as well. 2 talls, mobile 3rd tall, a goal kicking small, a goal kick small who also is great defensively, and a defensive forward who is a strong part of the midfield rotation.

 

[Caligo]

Just about the perfect balance as well. 2 talls, mobile 3rd tall, a goal kicking small, a goal kick small who also is great defensively, and a defensive forward who is a strong part of the midfield rotation.

I realise some people don't like including Lewis in that lineup, but like you I think that is actually a really important part of a forward line.

I wish that best hawthorn forward setup had ever gotten to face the best Geelong defensive one (led by Scarlett and enright). Would have been a sight to see. Sadly they just missed each other.

 

[naysayer]

Others have said Hawthorn's best forward 6 all time (Hudson, Dunstall, Matthews and Franklin must be included, the last slots all arguable), but Hawthorn's best forward 6 who all played in the same team recently is pretty extraordinary:

Lewis Franklin Gunston
Rioli Roughhead Bruest

All genuine stars of the game.

Not sure about including Jordan Lewis as a forward.

Rioli Franklin Gunston
Breust Roughead Puopolo

That 2013 line-up is, in my view, the best balanced forward line in Hawthorn history. Class, marking, crumbing, speed, X-Factor and pressure. Don't think we should forget that Puopolo made the whole thing work with his unrivalled defensive pressure, whilst being a good goal-kicker in his own right.

 

[Caligo]

Not sure about including Jordan Lewis as a forward.

Rioli Franklin Gunston
Breust Roughead Puopolo

That 2013 line-up is, in my view, the best balanced forward line in Hawthorn history. Class, marking, crumbing, speed, X-Factor and pressure. Don't think we should forget that Puopolo made the whole thing work with his unrivalled defensive pressure, whilst being a good goal-kicker in his own right.

I think it is valuable to have a forward who can have good amounts of midfield rotations (unlike say rough or rioli who only had small numbers of rotations through the middle). But I am clearly in the minority in that view.

Puopolo/Hale bench options.

 

[PhatBoy]

I realise some people don't like including Lewis in that lineup, but like you I think that is actually a really important part of a forward line.

I wish that best hawthorn forward setup had ever gotten to face the best Geelong defensive one (led by Scarlett and enright). Would have been a sight to see. Sadly they just missed each other.

It’s odd that it never quite worked out that way: all of their careers overlapped

Scarlett, Milburn, Mackie, Lonergan, Taylor (probably the most underrated of all the Cats multiple flag players IMO), Enright, Wojinscki, Josh Hunt, Harley - 6 AAs there.
That group against Buddy, Roughy, Breust, Gunston, Rioli, Lewis, even throw in Hale and Puopolo.

Mouthwatering

 

[Caligo]

It’s odd that it never quite worked out that way: all of their careers overlapped

Scarlett, Milburn, Mackie, Lonergan, Taylor (probably the most underrated of all the Cats multiple flag players IMO), Enright, Wojinscki, Josh Hunt, Harley - 6 AAs there.
That group against Buddy, Roughy, Breust, Gunston, Rioli, Lewis, even throw in Hale and Puopolo.

Mouthwatering

Yep. Harry Taylor was an absolute gun, but I would happily have stolen literally every single person you listed there. Class all round.