North Melbourne Priority Pick 2021

[King Tenz]

These guys aren't even the worst team in the comp, how could you possibly give them a priority pick? smh.

 

[The Nostradamus]

These guys aren't even the worst team in the comp, how could you possibly give them a priority pick? smh.

How to out yourself as an idiot and footy illiterate

 

[King Tenz]

How to out yourself as an idiot and footy illiterate

what do you mean? you ain't 18th. you guys have improved over last year, be more proud of your team champ.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Shinboner spirit.

 

[Freomaniac]

They won't get one but I think they deserve one. 5 years rebuilds are ridiculous. it's too long of a wait for fans to wait. it shouldn't take that long to turn a club around. Dees deserved every priority pick we got because we were just that bad. North aren't as bad but I think they still deserve one. Gold Coast too.

Hate to break it to you.

5 year rebuilds are going to be a common thing.

Freo had an ageing squad in 2015 and went 0-10 in 2016. They had to spend 2016-2021 building up a finals worthy side.

Carlton spent 8-9 years building a finals side.

Saints spent 2012-19 out of finals.

Crows and eagles have never spent more than 3 years out of finals. Crows dropped since the 2017 grand final loss. They don't make finals in 2022, that means no finals between 2018-22. That's 5 years.

Eagles haven't played finals in 2021, won't play finals in 2022. They will spend 5 years of not playing finals. So no finals before 2025 then

 

[footyfan1978]

Hate to break it to you.

5 year rebuilds are going to be a common thing.

Freo had an ageing squad in 2015 and went 0-10 in 2016. They had to spend 2016-2021 building up a finals worthy side.

Carlton spent 8-9 years building a finals side.

I have to correct you.
It is 7 years since we started from ground zero at end of 2015 season.
Not 8 or 9....

I believe we were capable of making finals last year and possibly year before it we had an actual quality coach an ounce of luck with injuries. Not in premiership contention but 5th to 8th I think was within reach if coached well.
But it taken 7 years and luck and other factors come into play.
I think 5 to 6 years is about right from ground zero.

Bit it does tend to mean that two or three years into a build via draft might be worse on match results because if you trying to build through youth most are not truly ready to impact games regularly enough to determine matches for you. You need some luck in terms of mature players on field still good enough and provide enough guidance for it not to look very ugly at times. North in that horrible phase now and miss Cunnington terribly. Their youth apart from Larkey, Zurhaar, Sympkin and LDU probably cannot play good enough for long enough in matches whilst they still developing together. If you lose your nerve as a club it can go pear shaped real quick even if the youth you have is probably up to it if you stick it out long enough. If they feel the coach is out of favour even a hint they can lose confidence in game plan worth trusting in. Saw that happen with Bolton at Carlton. We had youth like North but the club and player group lost their faith in each other in that period. Mind you, Bolton probably had to go at that point which truly believe is same for Noble now but it then whether that next appointment is good decision or bad. We made a bad one. North do not have to make same mistake and make the build in terms of results, take longer. I think North can be in finals within three years if they make all the right decisions and develop the large array of youth well. The recruiters that left, screwed up in terms of neglect key defence gap, but that can be addressed in off season by the new group of list managers.

 

[Iamspock]

Maybe Melbourne need it now.

 

[Red Bull]

2 north players suspended for cheap shots.
They’ve been at this caper all season.
North need to get their bloody act together quick smart …

 

[Nutjob]

Access to 2 mature age state league players is the going rate.
Enjoy …

And that would be ok if we were still under the same system that was used back in 2018, when Carlton got that. The landscape has completely changed with the mid season draft and the ability to top up your list right up until the start of the season. It would basically require a player to come out from nowhere between the MSD and the end of this season, which is very unlikely. Any quality candidates were taken in the MSD.


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[harper2bastinac]

Well, you definitely need to start making better decisions don’t you.
Now roll up your sleeves and get on with it …

Such as your mobs decisions over the last 20 years? What was it 3 rebuilds and 5 coaches?

 

[Freomaniac]

Is this an argument for or against priority picks?

For once in your life, can you at least be humble and not always be a stubborn old bastard? LoL.

Sure, your mob spent 8 or 9 seasons of not making finals. Now your team is in a good od position of not only making finals bit winning them too.

My team copped crap for their rebuild too. Freo spent 2016-21, that's 6 full seasons of not making finals.

Brisbane, Demon's and saints spend long period of years of not making finals recently too

 

[Freomaniac]

The coach is no good.

David Noble? I'm half glass full and empty at this.

Noble isn't a bad coach. He isn't great either. North Melbourne playing list isn't great either.

David Noble background...... He is more of a list manager.

Noble was the crows list manager for a few years until late 2016- early 2017. Crows made the grand final in 2017.

He then goes to Brisbane as a list manager from 2016/7 until 2020.

Brisbane went from bottom 4 to playing finals in 2019-21 and look to play finals in 2022.

Brisbane improved quickly I'm the last 5 year due to 3 reasons.

1. Got David Noble from the crows.

2. Got Swann from Collingwood or Carlton.

3. Got Chris Fagan as their head coach. His previous job was at the Hawks as an assistant coach.

North need a similar process what Brisbane did 5 years ago

 

[Freomaniac]

For completely different reasons. Our carcass was systematically picked at by other clubs offering a pittance for our younger stars. You just need to go back and read what was happening behind the scenes to realise what was going on - it wasn’t just the GH5 who were being courted.

And before the expected “self-infliction”, it’s completely different from shedding most of your experienced players and wondering why you’re non competitive.

You got a point here.

This all started when Michael Voss was sacked at the end of 2013 despite Brisbane getting 10 wins. Mind you, Brisbane didn't play one final From 2010-3.

Once he got sacked, then Young Brisbane players wanted out. Karazenis, Docherty, polec and Yeo all got traded out. I forgot who the 5th bloke was.

What made it sad, all 5 blokes were traded for mid to 2nd round picks.

2 of those blokes were drafted with 1st rounders.

Glad Brisbane gradually improved in the end

 

[Freomaniac]

I have to correct you.
It is 7 years since we started from ground zero at end of 2015 season.
Not 8 or 9....

I believe we were capable of making finals last year and possibly year before it we had an actual quality coach an ounce of luck with injuries. Not in premiership contention but 5th to 8th I think was within reach if coached well.
But it taken 7 years and luck and other factors come into play.
I think 5 to 6 years is about right from ground zero.

Bit it does tend to mean that two or three years into a build via draft might be worse on match results because if you trying to build through youth most are not truly ready to impact games regularly enough to determine matches for you. You need some luck in terms of mature players on field still good enough and provide enough guidance for it not to look very ugly at times. North in that horrible phase now and miss Cunnington terribly. Their youth apart from Larkey, Zurhaar, Sympkin and LDU probably cannot play good enough for long enough in matches whilst they still developing together. If you lose your nerve as a club it can go pear shaped real quick even if the youth you have is probably up to it if you stick it out long enough. If they feel the coach is out of favour even a hint they can lose confidence in game plan worth trusting in. Saw that happen with Bolton at Carlton. We had youth like North but the club and player group lost their faith in each other in that period. Mind you, Bolton probably had to go at that point which truly believe is same for Noble now but it then whether that next appointment is good decision or bad. We made a bad one. North do not have to make same mistake and make the build in terms of results, take longer. I think North can be in finals within three years if they make all the right decisions and develop the large array of youth well. The recruiters that left, screwed up in terms of neglect key defence gap, but that can be addressed in off season by the new group of list managers.

Well that's your opinion an you are entitled to it.

You said your team rebuild started in the 2015 draft when your mob got weitering and McKay.

I said 2014. Yeah your team made finals in 2013 and beat Richmond. Your team didn't play finals from 2014-21. Barring something of a disastrous results, your team should make it.

But this is North Melbourne we are talking about here.

I don't mind if they get a priority Pick. But norths priority is to review their whole footy department

 

[footyfan1978]

Well that's your opinion an you are entitled to it.

You said your team rebuild started in the 2015 draft when your mob got weitering and McKay.

Indeed, that is what I was correcting you about.
We had different list managers before them that had no consistent build path and at end of 2015 the list was as busted as it ever been.
Hence the build from ground zero started for us at end of 2015.
This is 7th season since this build of a consistent build plan through the draft that started at end of 2015.
Now we at a stage where mostly make renovations to what we built in those drafts and support the guys we built the foundations of which is the Weitering, McKay, Curnow and Silvagni draft class of 2015.

North still need to build a bit more with key defence in this next couple of drafts or if take different strategy, with incoming list manager, trade for a key defender of similar age to group they been drafting with.

 

[Blue1980]

Indeed, that is what I was correcting you about.
We had different list managers before them that had no consistent build path and at end of 2015 the list was as busted as it ever been.
Hence the build from ground zero started for us at end of 2015.
This is 7th season since this build of a consistent build plan through the draft that started at end of 2015.
Now we at a stage where mostly make renovations to what we built in those drafts and support the guys we built the foundations of which is the Weitering, McKay, Curnow and Silvagni draft class of 2015.

North still need to build a bit more with key defence in this next couple of drafts or if take different strategy, with incoming list manager, trade for a key defender of similar age to group they been drafting with.

In terms of players around now to help us with a finals and beyond push, only 2 guys in the list in 2015 are Cripps and Doch.

Ed Curnow unfortunately looks like he’s out indefinitely and probably retire.

So only 3 left on the list from 2015, I am thinking North didn’t begin this current journey until 2021, like we didn’t until 2016.

 

[footyfan1978]

And that would be ok if we were still under the same system that was used back in 2018, when Carlton got that. The landscape has completely changed with the mid season draft and the ability to top up your list right up until the start of the season. It would basically require a player to come out from nowhere between the MSD and the end of this season, which is very unlikely. Any quality candidates were taken in the MSD.

Agreed. Probably now need the pre-season draft to be held over to early March and North have first few picks then rather than supplemental selection period. That would be something more similar to two state league type assistance back then.

In terms of players around now to help us with a finals and beyond push, only 2 guys in the list in 2015 are Cripps and Doch.

Ed Curnow unfortunately looks like he’s out indefinitely and probably retire.

So only 3 left on the list from 2015, I am thinking North didn’t begin this current journey until 2021, like we didn’t until 2016.

Yes about Crippa and Doch.
Nah about timing of when North we say build from. North have already started for a number of drafts already.
I already shared in earlier post how LDU and Luke McDonald are probably their Cripps and Docherty if trying to work out what group of players you build from and expect them to be part of leadership group for future premiership tilts.
They have about a dozen youngsters already drafted in their list to continue to build around. They in 2022 are probably in similar position to we were in 2018 where you already have a batch of youngsters and you still have work to do in terms of adding to build of list and developing what you already drafted. It is a hard road as we know.

I remember sitting at games at end of 2015 and watching us playing giants and it was scary low little talent of youth we had with class compared to their riches. Was like chalk and cheese a few weeks back when we played them again and remember thinking back to 2015 how dark it was then.

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

And that would be ok if we were still under the same system that was used back in 2018, when Carlton got that. The landscape has completely changed with the mid season draft and the ability to top up your list right up until the start of the season. It would basically require a player to come out from nowhere between the MSD and the end of this season, which is very unlikely. Any quality candidates were taken in the MSD.


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I must be missing something here.

North also has the ability to top up their list right up until the regular season and also has access to the msd.

So any quality players available pre-msd or msd are available to North as well.

If players then come out of nowhere post-msd North will have priority access to at least 2 of them.

The current landscape has changed for the better for the rebuilding teams compared to 2018.

 

[Freomaniac]

Indeed, that is what I was correcting you about.
We had different list managers before them that had no consistent build path and at end of 2015 the list was as busted as it ever been.
Hence the build from ground zero started for us at end of 2015.
This is 7th season since this build of a consistent build plan through the draft that started at end of 2015.
Now we at a stage where mostly make renovations to what we built in those drafts and support the guys we built the foundations of which is the Weitering, McKay, Curnow and Silvagni draft class of 2015.

North still need to build a bit more with key defence in this next couple of drafts or if take different strategy, with incoming list manager, trade for a key defender of similar age to group they been drafting with.

I have said this on a recent thread but here it goes.

Demons spent 2007-17 not playing finals. Should of made finals in 2017 to be honest.

Brisbane did not make finals from 2010-18.

Carlton didn't make finals from 2014-21.

Saints didn't make finals from 2012-19.

Freo didnt make finals from 2016-21. Very likely to make finals barring a disaster.

So that's 5 teams that spent at least 5-6 years in a row not making finals.

Geelong being the odd one one out.

Richmond spent 2002-12 not making finals.

 

[Zephyr Effekt]

I have said this on a recent thread but here it goes.

Demons spent 2007-17 not playing finals. Should of made finals in 2017 to be honest.

Brisbane did not make finals from 2010-18.

Carlton didn't make finals from 2014-21.

Saints didn't make finals from 2012-19.

Freo didnt make finals from 2016-21. Very likely to make finals barring a disaster.

So that's 5 teams that spent at least 5-6 years in a row not making finals.

Geelong being the odd one one out.

Richmond spent 2002-12 not making finals.

Essendon hasn't won a final since 2004.

Give us all the priority picks.

 

[footyfan1978]

I have said this on a recent thread but here it goes.

Demons spent 2007-17 not playing finals. Should of made finals in 2017 to be honest.

Brisbane did not make finals from 2010-18.

Carlton didn't make finals from 2014-21.

Saints didn't make finals from 2012-19.

Freo didnt make finals from 2016-21. Very likely to make finals barring a disaster.

So that's 5 teams that spent at least 5-6 years in a row not making finals.

Geelong being the odd one one out.

Richmond spent 2002-12 not making finals.

Which highlights the equalisation measures overall of reverse ladder draft order work over the long haul in terms of league try to not make the same clubs dominate. Clubs will still make mistakes and sometimes make things take longer than they could have to turn things around.

 

[footyfan1978]

Which highlights the equalisation measures overall of reverse ladder draft order work over the long haul in terms of league try to not make the same clubs dominate. Clubs will still make mistakes and sometimes make things take longer than they could have to turn things around.

Further to this point, before the era's of draft and salary cap, Melbourne did not make finals from 1965 until 1987
Five or six years without finals is nothing in comparison.

 

[Nutjob]

I must be missing something here.

North also has the ability to top up their list right up until the regular season and also has access to the msd.

So any quality players available pre-msd or msd are available to North as well.

If players then come out of nowhere post-msd North will have priority access to at least 2 of them.

The current landscape has changed for the better for the rebuilding teams compared to 2018.

In 2018 Carlton were given access to 2 mature age second tier players. In 2018 there was no MSD or supplement list spots to be filled, which allowed 12 months for a mature age player to stamp their mark and get picked up. Under the previous system, 12 months was a decent amount of time for a 2nd tier player to come on and add value to a list. With the MSD and supplement list spots filled prior to the season, it really makes the same access now compared to 2018 pointless.

We just had the MSD draft, what mature age player is going to come out of nowhere between now and the end of year draft?


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[Nutjob]

Further to this point, before the era's of draft and salary cap, Melbourne did not make finals from 1965 until 1987
Five or six years without finals is nothing in comparison.

That’s so irrelevant because they didn’t have a draft or priority picks back then. If they did maybe Melbourne would have been well compensated. The reason the draft was bought in was to even up the competition and stop clubs being irrelevant for so long, which is a good thing.


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[Freomaniac]

Which highlights the equalisation measures overall of reverse ladder draft order work over the long haul in terms of league try to not make the same clubs dominate. Clubs will still make mistakes and sometimes make things take longer than they could have to turn things around.

Well it cuts both ways to be honest when it comes to equalization.


When your team spends 5-6 years In a row out of finals. You are gonna have access to early pics unless you trade them as future pics to get a good pick or player to help your squad. Especially if you finish bottom 6 for 3-4 years in a row.

Your club has a top 5 pick. There's so many ways to use it. Do you go to the draft with that top 5 pick? Do you trade it for picks or players or both? Some teams are willing to trade pick 5 for a couple of mid to late 1st rounders between 10-18.



I look at the other end of the ladder. Freo played finals each year from 2012-15. That means no top 5 or top 10 picks In that 2012-5 period.


Freo butchered their 2012 picks getting Josh Simpson and tanner Smith In that draft, yet got Taberner in the rookie draft.

2013 was ok. I could understand using our 1st rounder on Michael apeness as he was a 200cm KPF ruck. Alex Pearce was our 2ns rounder and Brady Grey was our 3rd rounder.

2014 was solid. Netted us Lachie Weller, Connor Blakely and Ed Langdon.

2015..... Did the Harley Bennell trade which was pick 16 and 35 for Harley Bennell and pick 22. That pick 22 was Darcy Tucker.

I'm trying to think who we got with our 3rd and 4th.

I know Freo got pick 35 back from the sun's. Suns traded Pick 35 and 55 (this pick was Sam Collins, ironically went to the sun's after being delisted by Freo) for freos 2016 2nd rounder and pick 61.