Collingwood and Richmond - who has the greater supporter base

[Zevon]

Just a reminder: Terms like “Minnowmond”, “Shrinkingwood”, “Dwindlewood” and the like belong on the bay, not the main board. Same goes for referring to either team as a minnow, when clearly neither fits that description.

If you see stuff like this, don’t respond with more of it. Click ‘report’ so we can deal with it.

 

[AstuteTiger]

I chose to compare Essendon and Richmond's crowds versus Fremantle, because the Dockers are historically the non-Victorian team with the least amount of travelling fans.

Are you taking the piss? Forget about averages, tiges have the 2nd highest crowd against freo in Vic, pies have the most. FACT

 

[AstuteTiger]

Pies have won 3 Flags since the war and yet still turn up in droves. You don’t get more faithful than that.

And well done, i have mates who follow the pies. Let's not make out like you haven't been up there. You have played in 14 grand finals in the last 60 years and won 2. So you may lose but in season finishing top 8 will still bring in crowds surely you agree with this.

 

[AstuteTiger]

As a neutral party, ANZAC day is universally seen as the biggest H&A game of the year (in terms of attendance). Not sure what the actual stats are, but nobody views Dreamtime as bigger.

For marquee games. I agree that Anzac day is the biggest and draws the most nuetrals. then Dreamtime, Anzac day eve and queen's birthday
they are the 4 biggest games on the AFL calander.

 

[Dan26]

Man oh mighty where do I start.

I would advise you to exit this conversation immediately because I know this stuff like the back of my hand and I'm happy to back it all up with historical crowd statistics

Man oh mighty where do I start.

It's one thing getting bigger crowds when coming good, it's another thing actually breaking records against minnows north and gws.

Once again this is not relevant because the amount of years Richmond had spent in the doldrums created a level of enthusiasm when they finally did become a good team.

I showed you an example of Collingwood getting a bigger Prelim crowd versus Adelaide (after they hadn't won a final in 12 years) than they did versus Hawthorn in a Prelim after the Pies had been a good team for years.

hahahaha yeah nah its not a final, it's a fricken home and away game, 77k biggest V Lions is the buggest interstate crowd for a home and away game.

Yes I know that mr genius. It's also a round 23 home and away game where finals posiitons and top-4 was up for grabs. Essentially a final in all but name. You'd never get that crowd for a round 12 match for example

Bro stop making up furphies. Richmond is the biggest in Victoria and if pies want to say they are that's fine, but * me ess is 3rd then blues 4th, hawks 5th

You don't know what you are talking about. Nothing you say there is backed up or can be verified by any historical crowd statistics. It's just fanboy garbage

I've shown you that Essendon draw more in Victoria versus Fremantle than Richmond do since 2002 despite NO MCG games and NO top-4 appearances.

Do you want me to bring out more numbers?

 

[AstuteTiger]

I would advise you to exit thois conversation immediately because I know this stuff like the back of my hand and I'm happy to back it all up with historical crowd statstics



Once again this is not relevant because the amount of years Richmond had spent in the doldrums created a level of enthusiasm when they finally did become a good team.

I showed you an example of Collingwood getting a bigger Prelim crowd versus Adelaide (after they hadn't won a final in 12 years) than they did versus Hawthorn after they had been a good team for years.


Yes I know that mr genius. It's also a round 23 home and away game where finals posiitons and top-4 was up for grabs. Essentially a final in all but name. You'd never get that crowd for a round 12 match for example



You don't know what you are talking about. Nothing you say there is backed up or can be verified by any historical crowd statistics. It's just fanboy garbage

I've shown you that Essendon draw more in Victoria versus Fremantle than Richmond do since 2002 despite NO MCG games and NO top-4 appearances.

Do you want me to bring out more numbers?

Lmfao you haven't shown s**t. Considering I have worked in membership I know a lot more than you would even dream of.
I am presenting actual facts, are you getting this not bullshit super coach etc
Not averages v freo. Richmond has drawn more than Ess V Freo FACT. We have drawn more V crows 55K FACT. same with lions 77K fact.,
Actual attendances, record crowds. Again pies and tigers have the highest crowds v interstate sides in Vic, this shows you need to bring your own fans and ess do not have ONE highest attendance v an interstate side in Vic. I'm leaving it there you're talking in riddles.

 

[dave10]

Bro it's membership and attendances anything else is a piss-take. Over the last 10 years both tiges and pies have dominated the home and away crowds.
What the> never in the conversation. Pies and tigers are the two biggest clubs in the AFL along with the eagles in WA. In the 80's tigers were mentioned as the biggest club. Articles, and documentaries with Mike Sheehan which was aired on fox footy but that was then and this is now.
And when we topped 100K in members we were once again mentioned as the biggest. Pies also have been mentioned many times as the biggest, can never recall bombers being mentioned as the biggest.

Pies and tigers have the highest home and away crowds in Vic against interstate sides that's a true indication of how many supporters a club has.
Tigers V lions 77K (biggest ever), Tigers Crows 55K, Tigers v GC 39K.
Pies have the records against the others freo, eagles, gws and port. The hawks have biggest against Sydney.

Just as a side note, in 2014 ess played north in an EF (78k), and in 2015 Rich played north in EF 90K+
We also have sold out the G V GWS 95K (PF)

Yeah man you stick with your super coach numbers

I’m not going to let you get away with this. I don’t know how many times I need to remind the Collingwood and Richmond fans that attendances as a measure is limited simply because these two clubs are the only two clubs in the ‘big 4’ that play games at the unconstrained stadium. Carlton and Essendon both play several of the Victorian and interstate clubs as the home team at a stadium with capacity in reality only 45,000. It’s simply ludicrous and misleading quoting all these record crowds against interstate teams when Carlton and Essendon are unable to get more than 45,000 in the joint. It’s a rubbish assertion being made.

Essendon regularly drew 50-70,000 against interstate sides at the MCG in the 1990’s. It has on many occasions locked the gates in advanced against interstate sides at Marvel Stadium and drawn ~45-50,000. How can you honestly with a straight face compare club crowd sizes in a pissing contest whilst not making the totally relevant point around stadium constraint being a significant limitation in the argument?

Let’s be real about this.

Membership is also dependent on form lines. I can be absolutely certain, 99% (nothings certain!!) that if Essendon won the next 3/4 premierships it’s membership would exceed Richmond’s membership. They would have between 110,000+ almost certainly. It’s not even a question. Essendon are unlikely to win 3 premierships in 4 years but it’s as certain as night follows day this would be the reality. Carlton would also exceed the 100,000… So using membership as a legit, reliable and defining metric is limited.

Membership and attendances are interesting and noteworthy only in context of these discussions.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Surely Carlton vs Richmond tomorrow night has to get 85,000 plus with two in form giants of the game playing.

I think you need to go on the attendances thread where like-minded people of all supported clubs post and give honest views on crowd guestimates. Here is the link>Play Nice - 2022 AFL/AFLW Crowds/TV Ratings/Stream thread

You will see no one thinks that will occur on a Thurs, neither do I and ill be there. No one is getting 85K on a Thurs night.
If it was Friday or the weekend I'd say 75-80K but Thurs I'm thinking 65-70K that's just a guess, hard to gauge with work and school on Friday. Also, regional supporters and interstate supporters have no chance to attend.

 

[Dan26]

Not averages v freo. Richmond has drawn more than Ess V Freo

Averages are more relevant than single games:

Essendon vs Fremantle in Melbourne since 2002

• 12 games ALL at Marvel stadium
• average crowd 32,263
• no MCG games
• no top-4 appearances for Essendon in this timeframe

Richmond versus Fremantle in Melbourne since 2002

• 13 games, 12 of them at the MCG
• average crowd 29,769
• only one game at Marvel stadium
• FOUR top-4 appearances for Richmond in this timeframe

.

We have drawn more V crows 55K FACT.

Essendon vs Adelaide in Melbourne since 2002 (since Essendon have been s**t)

• 10 games ALL at Marvel stadium
• average crowd 33,384
• no MCG games
• no top-4 appearances for Essendon in this timeframe

Richmond versus Adelaide in Melbourne since 2002

• 9 games, 4 of them at the MCG
• average crowd 31,185
• FOUR top-4 appearances for Richmond in this timeframe

So Essendon draw more in Victoria versus the Crows than Richmond do since 2002 despite NO top-4 appearances, and NO MCG games versus the Crows.

You have had 4 MCG games versus the Crows, and four top-4 appearances in that time.

Want me to do another interstate club? I've done Fremantle and Adelaide. I can go on and on...

 

[AstuteTiger]

I’m not going to let you get away with this. I don’t know how many times I need to remind the Collingwood and Richmond fans that attendances as a measure is limited simply because these two clubs are the only two clubs in the ‘big 4’ that play games at the unconstrained stadium. Carlton and Essendon both play several of the Victorian and interstate clubs as the home team at a stadium with capacity in reality only 45,000. It’s simply ludicrous and misleading quoting all these record crowds against interstate teams when Carlton and Essendon are unable to get more than 45,000 in the joint. It’s a rubbish assertion being made.

Essendon regularly drew 50-70,000 against interstate sides at the MCG in the 1990’s. It has on many occasions locked the gates in advanced against interstate sides at Marvel Stadium and drawn ~45-50,000. How can you honestly with a straight face compare club crowd sizes in a pissing contest whilst not making the totally relevant point around stadium constraint being a significant limitation in the argument?

Let’s be real about this.

Membership is also dependent on form lines. I can be absolutely certain, 99% (nothings certain!!) that if Essendon won the next 3/4 premierships it’s membership would exceed Richmond’s membership. They would have between 110,000+ almost certainly. It’s not even a question. Essendon are unlikely to win 3 premierships in 4 years but it’s as certain as night follows day this would be the reality. Carlton would also exceed the 100,000… So using membership as a legit, reliable and defining metric is limited.

Membership and attendances are interesting and noteworthy only in context of these discussions.

Dave get away with what? I don't agree with dans posts period and subsequently made my views but I respect your posts especially of late as before you did have a bone about Richmond which you explained some tiger posters ruffled your feathers.

But Ess does play many of their big games at the G do they not? You make some valid points and I'm not even disputing all of it but time will tell if and when bombers win flags. As of now, it's just hearsay on predicted numbers.

 

[AstuteTiger]

I would advise you to exit this conversation immediately because I know this stuff like the back of my hand and I'm happy to back it all up with historical crowd statistics

FFS im thinking the same stop it with your rubbish talk, you sound like a broken record you know s**t and I have provided facts NOT historical season averages v teams but in fact highest attendances. Anyway, as stated I'm leaving it there.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Now Essendon are in on the act, ok, I just looked it up.

It shows Richmond and Essendon = 1st

Carlton moving up quickly, soon should arrive as = 1st also

Collingwood still 4th but dropping quickly.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Now Essendon are in on the act, ok, I just looked it up.

It shows Richmond and Essendon = 1st

Carlton moving up quickly, soon should arrive as = 1st also

Collingwood still 4th but dropping quickly.

At least you have a sense of humour south of the yarra won't like this LOL

 

[LoungeLizard]

At least you have a sense of humour south of the yarra won't like this LOL

I'm serious.

 

[Dan26]

77k biggest V Lions is the biggest interstate crowd for home and away game.

Essendon vs Brisbane in Melbourne since 2002 (since Essendon has been s**t)
43,036

47,744

50,003

44,055

32,761

35,034

40,053

41,636

28,785

36,361

33,915

36,857

34,869

41,246

48,289

30,631

Av 39,076


Richmond vs Brisbane in Victoria since 2002
22,642

27,211

28,093

31,275

34,646

37,438

46,961

34,577

28,883

28,188

32,870

76,995

Av 35,814


1.Essendon has played Brisbane only twice at the MCG since 2002 out of 16 matches
2. Richmond has played Brisbane 7 times out of 12 at the MCG
3. Essendon has never made the top-4 in this time
4. Richmond has made the top-4 four times and won 3 premierships in this time
5. Essendon still averages more versus Brisbane than Richmond do despite all the above being true


Want me to keep going? I can do every interstate club if you like.

 

[AstuteTiger]

Essendon vs Brisbane in Melbourne since 2002 (since Essendon has been s**t)
43,036

47,744

50,003

44,055

32,761

35,034

40,053

41,636

28,785

36,361

33,915

36,857

34,869

41,246

48,289

30,631

Av 39,076


Richmond vs Brisbane in Victoria since 2002
22,642

27,211

28,093

31,275

34,646

37,438

46,961

34,577

28,883

28,188

32,870

76,995

Av 35,814


1.Essendon has played Brisbane only twice at the MCG since 2002 out of 16 matches
2. Richmond has played Brisbane 7 times out of 12 at the MCG
3. Essendon has never made the top-4 in this time
4. Richmond has made the top-4 four times and won 3 premierships in this time
5. Essendon still averages more versus Brisbane than Richmond do despite all the above being true


Want me to keep going? I can do every interstate club if you like.

Bro you can keep going on and on regarding averages. Knock yourself out. You're not getting this, averages mean s**t, you get that right?
Let's say bombers had the highest attendance v eagles or gws or gc or port etc and i was saying but but we have higher averages lmfao that just sounds ridiculous. I'll stick with the highest attendance ever V an interstate team V lions 77K

 

[LoungeLizard]

Bro you can keep going on and on regarding averages. Knock yourself out. You're not getting this, averages mean s**t, you get that right?
Let's say bombers had the highest attendance v eagles or gws or gc or port etc and i was saying but but we have higher averages lmfao that just sounds ridiculous. I'll stick with the highest attendance ever V an interstate team V lions 77K

Mate averages do matter and I'll explain why.

We all know that we all have many many fair weather supporters, who stop going when the going gets tough etc.

So saying, "look at us now" while at your peak, is great and all, but we need to look again when the s**t hits the fan = averages

 

[AstuteTiger]

Mate averages do matter and I'll explain why.

We all know that we all have many many fair weather supporters, who stop going when the going gets tough etc.

So saying, "look at us now" while at your peak, is great and all, but we need to look again when the s**t hits the fan = averages

I hear you but a club could be crap for 10-20 years and their average will be lower than a club mostly in the top 8 or hovering around the top 8, hence why breaking Highest attendance records shows the true power of what a club can achieve.

I mean just on averages, Richmond 1983 to 2012 we played finals twice. I doubt we would have higher averages when being crap for 3 decades.

Anyway, we all have our own thoughts and criteria, and we will stand by them.

 

[Dan26]

Bro you can keep going on and on regarding averages. Knock yourself out. You're not getting this, averages mean s**t, you get that right?
Let's say bombers had the highest attendance v eagles or gws or gc or port etc and i was saying but but we have higher averages lmfao that just sounds ridiculous. I'll stick with the highest attendance ever V an interstate team V lions 77K

Averages are all that matters.

Hawthorn have the all-time record crowd in Victoria vs the Swans (72,000 for the last match at Waverley). Does this mean Hawthorn have the biggest supporter base? Of course not.

Essendon out draw Richmond since 2002 versus EVERY interstate team for average attendance. Every one. And I am deliberately starting that in 2002 to give you a chance because Essendon hasn't finished top-4 in that time. Imagine if I started that stat in 1990.

Richmond have the 4th biggest supporter base. All surveys and historical crowd averages show this to be the case. Collingwood and Essendon are 1st and 2nd, and that's just the way it is.

 

[Dan26]

I hear you but a club could be crap for 10-20 years and their average will be lower than a club mostly in the top 8

Exactly. You're learning.

That's why I am using stats since 2002 because Essendon have been s**t since then and Richmond have finished in the top-4 four times and won 3 premierships. I'm being kind to you by putting the Bombers at a disadvantage and showing you they STILL outdraw Richmond for crowd average versus EVERY interstate club over that period.

Imagine if I used a time period where Essendon was successful. We've been garbage and we still have bigger crowds on average than Richmond do, versus every single Non-Vic club

 

[LoungeLizard]

I hear you but a club could be crap for 10-20 years and their average will be lower than a club mostly in the top 8 or hovering around the top 8, hence why breaking Highest attendance records shows the true power of what a club can achieve.

I mean just on averages, Richmond 1983 to 2012 we played finals twice. I doubt we would have higher averages when being crap for 3 decades.

Anyway, we all have our own thoughts and criteria, and we will stand by them.

Yes but these 4 clubs are supposed to be the big 4 aren't they, over the years we all have had ups and downs, if anything Collingwood has been the worst performed of the lot over the years, why does everyone still use us as the barometer.

Really, there are no prizes for being the biggest, Dan makes some very good points about Essendon, if they have success like Richmond did in the near future, It may well end right there.

 

[gopies1981]

The Supercoach game is a game played by about 300,000 people and has always been an almost "defacto" survey of supporter base numbers when you look at the supporters who play that game.

It has always been an almost exact replica of any of the AFL official statistics and surveys that are released, which show the same thing.

There has always been a big gap between the big two (Coll and Ess) and third placed Carlton and this has been the case with official surveys I have seen dating back 20 years.

Richmond have never been in the conversation for most supporters. Never. But they have done well converting the 4th-highest supporter base into the biggest membership, so hats off to them for that.

Coll 19,921
Ess 19,342
Carl 16,283
Rich 14,223
Haw 12,846
Gee 11,735
St.K 7,670
Kang 7,319
WB 6,645
Melb 6,010

The sample size is too small. Best is to look at Facebook. Collingwood is the biggest with 361 k likes. 2nd is Essendon with 346 k likes then hawthorn with 330 k. Richmond are 5th with 288 k. Tigers are not even in the big 4 ouch

 

[Walshawk]

Saying the pies will always be the biggest is a foolish thing to say. The sizes of the clubs are constantly changing we had less members than you did 7+ years ago. WC now also eclipse the pies.

Yes they do wear it like a badge of honour. Which is why they live in denial when facts get in the way of their narrative, it’s quite sad that they hold onto it this much. But to be fair they haven’t had a lot going for them in 60 years so it’s understandable.

The OP was about the supporter base sizes, which changes very slowly. Membership and crowds go up when a team is winning. Just like Hawthorns membership and crowds were higher than some members of the 'Big 4', during our threepeat, it did not mean our supporter base was bigger, just that we were more engaged. Pies have easily the biggest supporter base of the Vic clubs. Richmond are enjoying the bandwagon effect, but whether this will dramatically increase the size of their supporter base remains to be seen.
So crowds and memberships is not a good measure of supporter bases sizes, but rather how engaged they are.
The only two clubs whose supporter bases have change dramatically he last 50 - 60 years is Hawks up and Dees down. Every other club has stayed where they were in the pecking order.

 

[AstuteTiger]

The sample size is too small. Best is to look at Facebook. Collingwood is the biggest with 361 k likes. 2nd is Essendon with 346 k likes then hawthorn with 330 k. Richmond are 5th with 288 k. Tigers are not even in the big 4 ouch

Facebook rightiooo. I can play this game too, best to look at Instagram and TikTok who are the two most popular platforms along with FB. Tiges have more than pies. You do realise when you collate all the followers for FB, Insta, TikTok, Twitter and Youtube, the later "twitter and youtube" have the lowest engagement. Nonetheless, the pies and tigers have the most followers all up combined.

 

[gopies1981]

Facebook rightiooo. I can play this game too, best to look at Instagram and TikTok who are the two most popular platforms along with FB. Tiges have more than pies. You do realise when you collate all the followers for FB, Insta, TikTok, Twitter and Youtube, the later "twitter and youtube" have the lowest engagement. Nonetheless, the pies and tigers have the most followers all up combined.

If you include all social media formats the top 4 are;

1. Collingwood
2. Essendon
3. Richmond
4. Hawthorn
5. West coast
6. Carlton
7. Adelaide
8. Sydney

Collingwood is the biggest, 2nd is Essendon and Richmond are 3rd

 

[gopies1981]

Let’s all agree that Collingwood is the biggest. Pies have been involved in the 3 biggest crowds this year. They are the biggest club on social Media, 1st in attendance’s and are the biggest Victorian club according to Roy Morgan 777,000 fans. 2nd is Essendon with 653,000. Richmond have 563,000 fans in Australia