List Mgmt. List Management 2022

[4flagsin5yrs]

When’s Sam out of contract?

end of '23.

 

[tarczonandjane]

Geelong would demand about 20 first round picks plus Sam Walsh

18

Sam Walsh

Age

23

Ht

184cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.1

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.6

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.2

5star

K

15.4

5star

HB

10.8

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

3.2

5star

CL

4.8

5star

for de Koning. And that’s even with Dodoro as their list manager!

 

[The Return of the Paf]

Maybe the nail that broke the camels back with Willo was the Frankston game where he gave away some undisciplined free kicks and a 50 I think which really swung the momentum. Possibly copped a massive spray and that was that. Don’t think he played again


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Straws break backs, apparently. Nails get hammered into coffins.

 

[Gointocarlton]

SDK was a Blues' man!

The brothers and sisters in the crowd last night all seemed to be wearing Blues beanies and scarves.

 

[Red Bull]

Voss and co were always going to need a full season to assess what we have and what we need to take the steps to contender status.
Games like last night are invaluable in this process.
A few players confirmed they won’t be part of the picture going forward to the next level.
In defence, i think we need Boyd and one of McGovern/Marchbank/Kemp.
Kemp is the interesting player.
Where/what do the MC see him as going forward ?
Could he be developed as a wingman, we have real issues in this position atm and our salary cap suggests the solution will probably have to come from within.
Newnes and Hayes aren’t at the required level, Cottrell is committed but limited, O’Brien can’t handle the heat at the top level, Philp remains unknown at this stage.
Williams as an option has the ability and class, but can/would he do the off field work required for the position.
Our midfield is strong but very one paced.
Dow offers the point of difference here but the MC obviously see areas of his game that need work.
Developing Dow to his full potential could be critical and a real missing piece of the puzzle.
Plenty to like about Motlop, Durdin and Honey as small/medium forwards.
Owies is solid … Martin isn’t.
Very impressed with TDK, will be a great asset in whatever role he is deployed in for years to come.
Pittonet will add the grunt and make other players better players.
Overall, Ed Curnow as our only 30yo and above player, will likely finish up.
This means, besides one of our guys requesting a trade, we in the next few years won’t be losing a player of need.
A very strong list position to build and develop from going forward …

 

[Dunna Heartknee]

Watching the AFL u18 champs at the moment, Trent Hottons boy looks the goods, it's a pity he is 29 games shy off father son.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Whatever plan we have it needs to involve getting rid of some of our VFL grade inside mids and bringing in quality wings. KPP is integral yes, but our outside run is bordering on horrific if Saad and Doch aren't finding the ball further afield. Hoping Obrien continues developing but we need an upgrade from newnes and cottrell quick. Hayes was a butcher at the dogs and he'll remain a butcher for us, tries his guts out but doesn't have the talent to cut it in the top grade. Delist end of year.

 

[Coona Blues]

Whatever plan we have it needs to involve getting rid of some of our VFL grade inside mids and bringing in quality wings. KPP is integral yes, but our outside run is bordering on horrific if Saad and Doch aren't finding the ball further afield. Hoping Obrien continues developing but we need an upgrade from newnes and cottrell quick. Hayes was a butcher at the dogs and he'll remain a butcher for us, tries his guts out but doesn't have the talent to cut it in the top grade. Delist end of year.

Can’t argue with much of this. Yesterday further highlighted the lack of “touch” and composure from our outside, connecting options. We fail to control when required, and the connection, particularly going into the forward 50 is not of the same calibre as our top end opposition.

I continue to scan the underage stuff for solid, rather than spectacular KPP options, with this armchair recruiter wanting our first pick to be used on a quality and athletic distributor capable of making a wing their own, at least in the early part of their career. We don’t have the trade capital for top end trades to alleviate the need. I am loving the seemingly done trade of Sholl who is at worst an incremental upgrade of our wing options, and a big upgrade if he plays up to the form which gave him two rising star nominations.

I am happy that Hayes was given an opportunity. I have no doubt his disposal would improve and he could be a decent contributor, much like some of our other options. Being more combative than both LOB and Newnes has some advantage. Will is 27 and is not our future, we need upgrades. Newnes has been a solid, smart but somewhat flawed football player for a decade. Arguably has been a better HBF than wing over his journey. A couple of times last night he was “smart” in the sense that when 50/50 balls were on offer he chose to wait and attempt to tackle over getting first hands. No worse than our mate LOB, but not a good look. Now LOB, is our best genuine wing option, and I have been invested in him since before he was drafted. When is it enough in terms of chances though? He does so much right, but when he is bad, he is very, very bad. Instincts more preservation than attack the ball or man, this is a non negotiable short coming. While he is our best obvious prospect, he must remove the fatal flaw, and is running out of chances to do so. Cottrell continues to bust his butt to improve despite not having the innate skills and craft of some of his mates. He may not hang on to a best 22 spot, but will give 100% and should keep his rookie spot for at least another two years.

For mine Newnes and Hayes are in the delist column, with LOB at the mercy of Vossy’s assessment of his next handful of games and patience. We replace them with a trade and a draftee, as well as exploring other options from our existing list. The Acres rumour of only being offered one year is a little interesting, but has had recurring hammy issues and may have a significant trade cost. He may also be a bargain if they are clearing the decks for Jackson and/or Brayshaw trades.

The next part of this is who else can play wing. They must have quality disposal, composure and decent endurance. Pace is a premium, however can be offset by smarts, ball security and composure. Williams has the skill set, but the tank is questionable particularly coming off a lower leg injury. Doc has played on a wing, but Voss has him tied to the backline. Fisher, Durdin and Motlop all have traits to spend some time there, but size would find them out if targeted. Four blokes I want to find permanent senior spots are Kemp, Boyd, Stocker and Carroll, I would love all to be conditioned with an eye to it over the coming pre season. Philp could be a long term option, but needs to stay on the park and overcome fumbling and composure issues. Setterfield has many of the required traits and has spent time there, unfortunately not overly effective with ball security and linkage. Then left field we have Jack of all trades Silvagni who may have trouble staying in the forward line from a balance perspective if we play two rucks, which is likely. While JSOS is excellent with pressure for his size, I can see Durdin, Motlop and Owies/Honey being kept as a pressure team while the Walsh/Fisher forward flank start remains a thing. Jack is not quick, but is faster than his loping stride looks and he has sufficient endurance. His height adds an element most oppo wingers would struggle with so for mine is an option while we develop a draftee with the role in mind.

We need to be creative in the short term although surely one wing (minimum) belongs to a LOB, Cotts (or Sholl) running machine.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Can’t argue with much of this. Yesterday further highlighted the lack of “touch” and composure from our outside, connecting options. We fail to control when required, and the connection, particularly going into the forward 50 is not of the same calibre as our top end opposition.

I continue to scan the underage stuff for solid, rather than spectacular KPP options, with this armchair recruiter wanting our first pick to be used on a quality and athletic distributor capable of making a wing their own, at least in the early part of their career. We don’t have the trade capital for top end trades to alleviate the need. I am loving the seemingly done trade of Sholl who is at worst an incremental upgrade of our wing options, and a big upgrade if he plays up to the form which gave him two rising star nominations.

I am happy that Hayes was given an opportunity. I have no doubt his disposal would improve and he could be a decent contributor, much like some of our other options. Being more combative than both LOB and Newnes has some advantage. Will is 27 and is not our future, we need upgrades. Newnes has been a solid, smart but somewhat flawed football player for a decade. Arguably has been a better HBF than wing over his journey. A couple of times last night he was “smart” in the sense that when 50/50 balls were on offer he chose to wait and attempt to tackle over getting first hands. No worse than our mate LOB, but not a good look. Now LOB, is our best genuine wing option, and I have been invested in him since before he was drafted. When is it enough in terms of chances though? He does so much right, but when he is bad, he is very, very bad. Instincts more preservation than attack the ball or man, this is a non negotiable short coming. While he is our best obvious prospect, he must remove the fatal flaw, and is running out of chances to do so. Cottrell continues to bust his butt to improve despite not having the innate skills and craft of some of his mates. He may not hang on to a best 22 spot, but will give 100% and should keep his rookie spot for at least another two years.

For mine Newnes and Hayes are in the delist column, with LOB at the mercy of Vossy’s assessment of his next handful of games and patience. We replace them with a trade and a draftee, as well as exploring other options from our existing list. The Acres rumour of only being offered one year is a little interesting, but has had recurring hammy issues and may have a significant trade cost. He may also be a bargain if they are clearing the decks for Jackson and/or Brayshaw trades.

The next part of this is who else can play wing. They must have quality disposal, composure and decent endurance. Pace is a premium, however can be offset by smarts, ball security and composure. Williams has the skill set, but the tank is questionable particularly coming off a lower leg injury. Doc has played on a wing, but Voss has him tied to the backline. Fisher, Durdin and Motlop all have traits to spend some time there, but size would find them out if targeted. Four blokes I want to find permanent senior spots are Kemp, Boyd, Stocker and Carroll, I would love all to be conditioned with an eye to it over the coming pre season. Philp could be a long term option, but needs to stay on the park and overcome fumbling and composure issues. Setterfield has many of the required traits and has spent time there, unfortunately not overly effective with ball security and linkage. Then left field we have Jack of all trades Silvagni who may have trouble staying in the forward line from a balance perspective if we play two rucks, which is likely. While JSOS is excellent with pressure for his size, I can see Durdin, Motlop and Owies/Honey being kept as a pressure team while the Walsh/Fisher forward flank start remains a thing. Jack is not quick, but is faster than his loping stride looks and he has sufficient endurance. His height adds an element most oppo wingers would struggle with so for mine is an option while we develop a draftee with the role in mind.

We need to be creative in the short term although surely one wing (minimum) belongs to a LOB, Cotts (or Sholl) running machine.

I was really keen on Amon based on the points above. An instant upgrade on what we have, no trade required, durable, fits the age profile. Looks like that move won’t work out for reasons discussed.

I like Sholl and think he’ll be a handy pick up but I hope our search doesn’t end at him.

 

[Accidental genius]

Does anyone have a list of when each of our players are contracted til?

 

[Revenant1965]

Does anyone have a list of when each of our players are contracted til?

Resource - Carlton Football Club Team List and Contract Status

Note: This thread is for official announcements only. Please direct all discussion to the relevant player threads - click on the player name below to be redirected! Number Name Contract Expiry Source 2023 List Notes 1 Jack Silvagni 2025 Here Senior 2 Lachlan Cowan 2026 Here Senior...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Jimmae]

I'm like most - can't quite work out why Dow hasn't played more. I looked at his highlights from the Collingwood game just to check:


13 of his 21 disposals are shown and they're all really well chosen options and well executed as far as I can see. However, he had 6 clangers which are not shown. 5 clearances and 6 tackles is pretty good. I think he was named in the best in TheAge.

Was only given 60% game time so 21 disposals is on track for a 26-28 pos game on normal game time. Was surprised he got dropped the next week.

I've seen Pominoz put forward a few theories around him not handballing from stoppages enough in the VFL but I don't really buy that. He's not surrounded by Walsh/Cripps/Hewett/Cerra in the VFL so of course he's going to have to resort to a quick kick out of the pack more often.

I think it must have something to do with his inability to limit the damage the opposition midfield does. That Collingwood game was pretty farcical at times with the pies mids streaming straight out of stoppages running forward which hasn't happened in any other game this year. Not that this is all Dow's fault of course - this is just my best guess as to the part of his game keeping he's out of favour. That and the clangers.

I think you're on the right track somewhat, but I think it's more that he's not been particularly creative by hand, and might be trying to run out of the stoppage a lot. Works at VFL level, but will get bottled more at AFL level.

That and better balancing defensive and offensive efforts in all phases of play.

Maybe the nail that broke the camels back with Willo was the Frankston game where he gave away some undisciplined free kicks and a 50 I think which really swung the momentum. Possibly copped a massive spray and that was that. Don’t think he played again

He played 2 games after that for us, then took mental health leave, so no. Can't imagine it helped, but he put his all in for a solid two months and go thrown onto the wing as a means to get him into the 22.

We need to be creative in the short term although surely one wing (minimum) belongs to a LOB, Cotts (or Sholl) running machine.

One way to be creative is to delist senior depth that's out of contract and get a bunch of 19-22 year old DFA options very early on. Just ditch Hayes, Parks, Newnes, McDonald and trust Dow, Cottrell, Philp, Cuningham, Honey, Marchbank, Kemp and Carroll to provide senior depth from now on.

There's some talent that missed out on the mid-season draft who should be relatively straight forward to acquire. Kolar, Carrigan, and Leiu immediately come to mind.

 

[Arr0w]

He played 2 games after that for us, then took mental health leave, so no. Can't imagine it helped, but he put his all in for a solid two months and go thrown onto the wing as a means to get him into the 22.

One way to be creative is to delist senior depth that's out of contract and get a bunch of 19-22 year old DFA options very early on. Just ditch Hayes, Parks, Newnes, McDonald and trust Dow, Cottrell, Philp, Cuningham, Honey, Marchbank, Kemp and Carroll to provide senior depth from now on.

There's some talent that missed out on the mid-season draft who should be relatively straight forward to acquire. Kolar, Carrigan, and Leiu immediately come to mind.

Please

You had Kennedy being assessed for FA compensation, when he was always getting a 3 year deal

Then having Pitto and Fish up for trade and Newman being re-rookied when he is on the main with a year to go

Willo was always going to be cut despite your thoughts of him being a better option than AFL quality

 

[TENACIOUS]

Below is how I rate our list at this point, on ability... (I'm sure most will see it differently)

A Grade	Walsh, Curnow, Weitering, Cripps, Docherty, McKay & Saad
Potential A Grade	De Koning, Young, Cerra, C.Durdin & Motlop
B Grade	Pittonet, Silvagni, Kennedy, Newman, Fisher, Hewett & Owies
Always Injured	McGovern, Cuningham, Marchbank, Martin & Williams
AFL Level Potential	Cottrell, Dow, Carroll, Stocker, Kemp, Honey, Boyd & Mirkov
C Grade - AFL Level Depth	Plowman, Newnes & S.Durdin
Trade/Delist/1 Year Deals	O'Brien, Setterfield, Fogarty, Parks, McDonald, Philp, Akuei & Hayes
Retire	E.Curnow, Williamson & Jones

Our A graders & Potential A graders are well and truly stocked and comparable to any team in the league...
Wouldn't trade for any A graders anymore, unless it was a deal we couldn't refuse...
Would hope to use the draft to produce more or players on our list stand up...

Our B grade list is quite small... We need players from the Always Injured and AFL potential to step up and take a position here...
We would expect at worst for our traded and drafted players to fill this area...

Our C grade - AFL level depth is quite shallow... As well as hitting the draft, we could look at some DFA or trades to fill this area (KP Depth would be nice)...

Depending on trades and draft numbers would be happy to Trade/Delist/Give a 1 Year Deal to any of the mentioned players, see them as list clogers...

Like Voss said our list is still unfinished...
We have some immense talent, good age demographic and potentially at a level we can cherry pick needs (KPP and Wingers)...
Hope we can stand firm on a pay structure, players are going to have to take what we can afford, no more $1m+ contracts...

 

[RAPPA]

Cottrell's tenacity and endeavour for mine is what has him in Voss' preferred books. Obviously we are lacking in wing options, and if the Club pursues and recruits the likes of Scholl (now that they've seemingly pulled out of the race for Amon) then he will have competition for his spot, but I can see him in mind for future depth.

Dow is gone and it'll just be a matter of getting the best possible trade for him. The recruitment of Cerra and Hewett, and the marked improvement of Kennedy, put him well down the midfield pecking order, and unfortunately he is a one dimensional player that is competing with better calibre players for the same position.

I feel LOB will be offered a one year deal, but may still leg it if he gets another offer elsewhere. Whilst he has his limitations, he still has attributes that can be advantageous.

Marchbank and Cuningham will be interesting. Both are concerning in terms of their injury history, but the light at the end of the tunnel seems closer in relation to Marchy than Cuningham. Both will be 27 next year and within neither yet to hit 50 games due to their respective bodies. If they are going to be retained then it would have to be on the basis that both are best 22 - keeping perennially injured players on the list as depth is pointless. If we can only choose one then recency bias would have me opt for Marchbank.

 

[Christou2Kouta]

Cottrell's tenacity and endeavour for mine is what has him in Voss' preferred books. Obviously we are lacking in wing options, and if the Club pursues and recruits the likes of Scholl (now that they've seemingly pulled out of the race for Amon) then he will have competition for his spot, but I can see him in mind for future depth.

Dow is gone and it'll just be a matter of getting the best possible trade for him. The recruitment of Cerra and Hewett, and the marked improvement of Kennedy, put him well down the midfield pecking order, and unfortunately he is a one dimensional player that is competing with better calibre players for the same position.

I feel LOB will be offered a one year deal, but may still leg it if he gets another offer elsewhere. Whilst he has his limitations, he still has attributes that can be advantageous.

Marchbank and Cuningham will be interesting. Both are concerning in terms of their injury history, but the light at the end of the tunnel seems closer in relation to Marchy than Cuningham. Both will be 27 next year and within neither yet to hit 50 games due to their respective bodies. If they are going to be retained then it would have to be on the basis that both are best 22 - keeping perennially injured players on the list as depth is pointless. If we can only choose one then recency bias would have me opt for Marchbank.

Both Cuningham and Marchbank will be 26 for next season.


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[Accidental genius]

Both Cuningham and Marchbank will be 26 for next season.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Whilst age is on their side....im not sure history is.

How much longer can we carry players who are constantly injured?

Marchy and cunners always injured

Martin McGovern Williams and omac...are heading in same direction

5 of these 6 are best 22. That’s a big issue imo.

 

[tarczonandjane]

Hayes didn’t have much of a game the other night. But I’d suggest they need to give him a few weeks to find his feet. I still don’t think he’ll offer much. But they know what they’ve got with O’Brien, Newnes, Setterfield, and Cottrell, and they need to figure out where the ceiling might be for Hayes.

In a medium term sense, I think Cottrell will be fine. He’s young enough, runs hard both ways, and seems pretty coach-able. A premiership list is always going to have players who aren’t stars, but who do the hard yards.

To me, Dow holds the answer to a winger. We take a similar trade scenario to that with SPS. So, we take a third rounder, and see what we can turn it into. I’m sure Austin is working on it. He’d be looking at guys with a couple of years of development in them, who can’t get a game at their current club because of a strong onball setup.

 

[chunkylover53]

Cottrell is committed but limited,

I think Cottrell is one of our long-term wingers. He has an elite work rate, pace, and seems to have a fair bit of upside - we've seen some silky plays from him this year that we didn't know he had. After all you can't have 22 stars out there, reliable role players are gold.

As for the other wing - I'm not sure why one of Doc, Saad or Williams can't fill it. We seem really reluctant on that idea.

 

[rp84]

I think Cottrell is one of our long-term wingers. He has an elite work rate, pace, and seems to have a fair bit of upside - we've seen some silky plays from him this year that we didn't know he had. After all you can't have 22 stars out there, reliable role players are gold.

As for the other wing - I'm not sure why one of Doc, Saad or Williams can't fill it. We seem really reluctant on that idea.

We are atrocious at freeing Saad up on the half back line to make runs. He gets so much ball from intercept possession.

Why not free him up on a wing?

Weiters, doc, young and McGovern offer plenty of intercept ability and stock offers ball use.

Imagine Saad intercept another 50m up the ground, beating his opponent and kicking deep inside 50s...

If we could get Saad set plays at half back, that's another story but we are just shit at it

 

[Sector 7G]

We are atrocious at freeing Saad up on the half back line to make runs. He gets so much ball from intercept possession.

Why not free him up on a wing?

Weiters, doc, young and McGovern offer plenty of intercept ability and stock offers ball use.

Imagine Saad intercept another 50m up the ground, beating his opponent and kicking deep inside 50s...

If we could get Saad set plays at half back, that's another story but we are just s**t at it

Teams are pretty switched on to ensure they have someone covering Saad around when we have possession.

 

[Revenant1965]

We are atrocious at freeing Saad up on the half back line to make runs. He gets so much ball from intercept possession.

Why not free him up on a wing?

Weiters, doc, young and McGovern offer plenty of intercept ability and stock offers ball use.

Imagine Saad intercept another 50m up the ground, beating his opponent and kicking deep inside 50s...

If we could get Saad set plays at half back, that's another story but we are just s**t at it

Question: how would Saad compare to wingers like Langdon, McCluggage, Smith, Dawson, Amon? I reckon he could hold his own, but perhaps 2023 is not the time to try with likes of Williams missing...

 

[marcmurphy3]

Question: how would Saad compare to wingers like Langdon, McCluggage, Smith, Dawson, Amon? I reckon he could hold his own, but perhaps 2023 is not the time to try with likes of Williams missing...

Saad doesn't have a great tank. He himself has joked about it. Those guys would run him into the ground.

 

[Stamos]

Saad is not a wingman. People get seduced by his speed. The running he does out of the backline is very different to the running required to play wing.

 

[marcmurphy3]

To me, Dow holds the answer to a winger. We take a similar trade scenario to that with SPS. So, we take a third rounder, and see what we can turn it into. I’m sure Austin is working on it. He’d be looking at guys with a couple of years of development in them, who can’t get a game at their current club because of a strong onball setup.

I can see us trading Dow for a 3rd rounder and flicking it onto Adelaide for Scholl. Geelong have 3 third round picks this year and lack propects in his age demographic so can see them interested.