Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

[Kurve]

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The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

charged



Allegedly

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

It seems to be the only option left, but I'm curious as to why SM would be jogging/walking alone, in/near a forest, in the early morning, it there was any type of potential threat to her or her family.

Probably has done it many times before and was very familiar with the tracks. Likely others used the same area. Early morning is the most convenient time for running/walking, before it gets hot and before work etc.

 

[Lady O]

Probably has done it many times before and was very familiar with the tracks. Likely others used the same area. Early morning is the most convenient time for running/walking, before it gets hot and before work etc.

Maybe the reason she stopped running/walking on the tracks through the forest was not due to her contracting Covid but to a potential threat, which she thought had been resolved or dealt with?

 

[Flog111]

4 very long weeks. Is this the week where we see some resolution for the family and community...hope so.

No new leads and a tight lid on protracted investigation — what we know about Samantha Murphy's disappearance

A "top priority" investigation, numerous police interviews and a supportive community effort have been features of a search in the month since Ballarat mum Samantha Murphy disappeared.

www.abc.net.au

I mean even if they know who’s done it they can’t just arrest him or her without solid evidence. They need something.

 

[Pamcake1]

Quite a good report, especially on phone data etc.

Former detective warns volunteer searchers may be hurting police investigation into Samantha Murphy

Volunteers have been desperately searching for missing mother Samantha Murphy but their efforts could unfortunately be hampering the police, a former detective tells 7.30.

www.abc.net.au

 

[BFew]

Quite a good report, especially on phone data etc.

Former detective warns volunteer searchers may be hurting police investigation into Samantha Murphy

Volunteers have been desperately searching for missing mother Samantha Murphy but their efforts could unfortunately be hampering the police, a former detective tells 7.30.

www.abc.net.au

Four weeks on, and they are only now going to start looking at the phone data of all those in the area?

Either it takes way too long to get this info from the telco companies, and/or: they are under-resourced, have a directive or Policy not to put resources into looking at this kind of info until someone is missing for at least 4 weeks, or they have already begun looking at it and are just watching for the reaction of potential suspects to it being reported in the media that they are only now going to start looking at this data.

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/investigators-to-use-new-tactic-in-search-for-ballarat-motherofthree-samantha-murphy-who-disappeared-one-month-ago/news-story/db99ed1dc4d25140363f18fd9c306732

'Investigators to use new tactic in search for Ballarat mother-of-three Samantha Murphy who disappeared one month ago'​

'March 4, 2024 - 10:00AM'

'Investigators looking into the disappearance of Samantha Murphy will use mobile phone tower data to pinpoint the movements of individuals in the area on February 4, the day the mother-of-three disappeared.

Police will harvest phone data from the Ballarat area before conducting background tests in a bid to gain a fresh insight into what happened to Ms Murphy.
...
fears Ms Murphy’s mobile phone battery had run out after six days'

 

[Kurve]

Four weeks on, and they are only now going to start looking at the phone data of all those in the area?

That was my first reaction as well. I'd have thought they'd have all that by now or at least know who was in the area at the time and if lucky, whose phone bumped in to, or knocked on Samantha's phone.

I've wondered if that's how they knew there may have been two offenders, they've got two phones near or following her.

 

[FTY1]

Four weeks on, and they are only now going to start looking at the phone data of all those in the area?

Either it takes way too long to get this info from the telco companies, and/or: they are under-resourced, have a directive or Policy not to put resources into looking at this kind of info until someone is missing for at least 4 weeks, or they have already begun looking at it and are just watching for the reaction of potential suspects to it being reported in the media that they are only now going to start looking at this data.

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/investigators-to-use-new-tactic-in-search-for-ballarat-motherofthree-samantha-murphy-who-disappeared-one-month-ago/news-story/db99ed1dc4d25140363f18fd9c306732

'Investigators to use new tactic in search for Ballarat mother-of-three Samantha Murphy who disappeared one month ago'​

'March 4, 2024 - 10:00AM'

'Investigators looking into the disappearance of Samantha Murphy will use mobile phone tower data to pinpoint the movements of individuals in the area on February 4, the day the mother-of-three disappeared.

Police will harvest phone data from the Ballarat area before conducting background tests in a bid to gain a fresh insight into what happened to Ms Murphy.
...
fears Ms Murphy’s mobile phone battery had run out after six days'

Most people worry about their phone battery going dead after 1 or 2 days. 6 days is really ambitious.

BRB have to charge my phone.

 

[shorsky]

It's just speculation but I also believe in the targeted attack theory.
MM reported her missing quite early - the family did not "look for" her before calling the cops - if they really thought she might have injured herself on her run/jog/walk, then possibly they would have driven into Canadian looking around her usual route, or asking folks in the forest. Just an opinion. Also, going by her daughter's words and appearance in that initial video, where she says words to the effect that Samantha was "strong, and would get through this", I believe the family suspected foul play from the outset.
I think MM and the family have nominated potential 'enemies' to police and these are now under investigation. I have no proof of this, it just seems to fit their behaviour and current search tactics.

Just not sure this has been confirmed as true : ‘the family did not "look for" her before calling the cops’

 

[BFew]

6 days is really ambitious.

A new model iPhone should be able to last for 6 days when recently charged, and then not being used much or at all, but still switched on.

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max Battery test

Discover the exceptional battery life of the iPhone 15 Pro Max, ranking it among the top devices in our database with over 69 hours of usage.

www.dxomark.com

 

[Lady O]

Just not sure this has been confirmed as true : ‘the family did not "look for" her before calling the cops’

If true, this is really screwy. She could have been 100mtrs away chatting to a neighbour! Makes no sense, unless you were expecting something like this to happen.

If I called the cops every time my DH didn't come home when he said he would and he didn't answer his phone, they would have me charged with wasting police time.

 

[Awakening]

“In Australia, metadata from a tower dump can only be requested for a crime. Not for a missing person or other reason.

It involves multiple carriers downloading the metadata from the tower(s).

The metadata will show the time, duration and destination of phone activity in that area ... usually for a period of one or two hours.

If the police have only gained evidence of a crime recently in Sam's case, that is when they could request the metadata.”

I’m guessing they’ve used Sam’s watch data and length of time missing to demonstrate that a crime has likely taken place?

Police scoop up data on thousands in mobile phone 'tower dumps' to track down criminals

Australian federal and state police are ordering phone providers to hand over personal information about thousands of mobile phone users, whether they are targets of an investigation or not.

www.smh.com.au

Meta data retention laws - LawBase

LawBase is an online law firm for business owners and entrepreneurs. View our library of legal updates and insights for Australian businesses.

www.lawbase.com.au

 

[BFew]

“In Australia, metadata from a tower dump can only be requested for a crime. Not for a missing person or other reason.

There is reference to this in an article (below) I meant to quote from in here a few weeks ago.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/samantha-murphy-disappearance-theo-hayez-inquest-findings-could-have-helped-with-tracking/news-story/fcd8c3c64a4f6ccd36faeb8d56af5b79

'Samantha Murphy disappearance: Theo Hayez inquest findings could have helped with tracking​

EXCLUSIVE
By DAVID MURRAY

NATIONAL CRIME CORRESPONDENT
8:45PM FEBRUARY 16, 2024

Coronial recommendations from the disappearance of backpacker Theo Hayez could have been crucial to track missing Ballarat mother Samantha Murphy, but have been ignored for more than a year.

Findings from the inquest into Hayez’s 2019 disappearance in Byron Bay were meant to transform missing persons investigations, ensuring police could harness modern technology to find people in emergencies by following their electronic footprints.

Tech giants Google, Apple and Facebook have vast amounts of GPS location data and other information that can provide vital leads in missing persons cases such as the mysterious disappearance of Ms Murphy almost two weeks ago.

However, authorities have severe difficulties accessing the material, sometimes waiting years for information under laws that have not kept pace with advances in technology, the Hayez inquest found.

The Australian’s 2019 podcast The Lighthouse had earlier examined Hayez’s disappearance and argued authorities needed to make better use of technology to find missing people, with almost everyone now carrying tracking devices in the form of smart phones and other gadgets.

Hayez’s godfather, Jean-Philippe Pector, said it was “shocking” that the coroner’s findings in the case had gone nowhere.

Victoria Police this week appeared no closer to finding Ms Murphy, despite her having an Apple watch and her phone with her when she vanished after setting off for a jog on Sunday, February 4.

Both devices potentially transmitted precise GPS location data that could help her desperate family find out what happened to her.

Mr Pector said that in Ms Murphy’s case it “really seems that there are no clues at the moment”, and urged her family and Victorian police to immediately seek data held by the tech giants.

“I would definitely suggest that they push as much as they can for the police to try to access that information,” Mr Pector said.

Data held by tech companies was even more important in remote areas where limited and unreliable information was available from the traditional technique of using phone towers to pinpoint a person’s location, he said.

In Hayez’s case, family members gained access to his Google account by following a series of steps to reset his password, and as a result discovered his precise movements the night he went missing.

It showed police were looking in the wrong area for Hayez, 18, for more than a week based on phone tower pings.

NSW State Coroner Teresa O’Sullivan said in her Hayez findings in October 2022 that big legal “gaps, roadblocks and inconsistencies” were hindering missing persons investigations at a state, national and international level.

“Many of these legislative barriers are inexplicable and removing them could save lives and help prevent the awful grief of ambiguous loss suffered by Theo’s family and many others,” Ms O’Sullivan said.

Federal and NSW law reform commissions should jointly examine the issues, she recommended.

But both the Australian Law Reform Commission and the NSW Law Reform Commission told The Weekend Australian they had not been asked to conduct inquiries into issues raised at the inquest.

The two commissions inquire into matters referred to them by their respective federal and state attorneys-general.

Federal Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus’s spokesman said no record could be found of him being provided the Hayez recommendations.

Ms O’Sullivan said Hayez’s case “illustrates how crucial mobile phone and other electronic data can be”.

She added: “Our online accounts, linked to our phones, smart watches and other devices, contain huge amounts of personal information revealing our location, transport, purchase, and search history in addition to our various types of communications.

“For the most part this data is held by international corporations located outside Australia, such as Google and Facebook.”

Police had no legislative power to compel the companies to provide evidence in missing persons cases, as the investigation had to be connected to a suspected crime, Ms O’Sullivan found.

Even in criminal cases, police had to use the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty to obtain information from the tech companies.

“This can be a very lengthy process, sometimes taking months, sometimes even more than a year,” Ms O’Sullivan said.

“The law enforcement or prosecutorial agency must be satisfied that there is a clear need to obtain evidence held in a foreign country for the purpose of furthering an Australian criminal investigation or prosecution.”

The commonwealth criminal code also prohibits unauthorised access to computer data, meaning that in missing persons cases “police may not be lawfully able to access” information.
Mr Pector said: “We did express quite clearly that if Theo’s coronial inquest could help other cases, in terms of speeding up access to any information that could help locate missing people, then that would be the least that we could expect if we cannot find Theo.

“It’d be really shocking if nothing has been pushed further than just talking about it.”

NSW Attorney-General Michael Daley did not answer questions but said through a spokesman he would seek advice on “whether there is any need to review existing state legislation”.

In Hayez’s case, NSW Police were unaware Google operated a 24/7 emergency disclosure request service in which it provided information to government agencies when it was reasonably believed it could prevent someone dying or suffering serious harm.

Other tech companies have similar policies.

Victoria Police would not disclose steps it has taken to obtain Ms Murphy’s data from Google, Apple and Facebook.

“As part of the Missing Persons Squad investigation into the disappearance of Ballarat East woman Samantha Murphy, Victoria Police is actively engaged with a number of external agencies and telecommunications companies in an effort to get as much information as possible to assist the current search,” the spokeswoman said.

 

[spike101]

Surely after Ristevski’s conviction nobody would be carrying telephones with them if they were up to no good??

 

[Pamcake1]

That was my first reaction as well. I'd have thought they'd have all that by now or at least know who was in the area at the time and if lucky, whose phone bumped in to, or knocked on Samantha's phone.

I've wondered if that's how they knew there may have been two offenders, they've got two phones near or following her.

Or two phones that go dead around that time and then get switched on again later.

 

[Kurve]

Surely after Ristevski’s conviction nobody would be carrying telephones with them if they were up to no good??

That would look like premeditation in these circumstances but there's other tech that people aren't always aware of in watches and GPS in vehicles.

They're going to get any cars going in or out too at some points on CCTV, check back to who was driving them, if they have phones and what their phones were doing, on or off. Do they have criminal history? Is there a connection to Samantha? etc.

 

[Pamcake1]

Four weeks on, and they are only now going to start looking at the phone data of all those in the area?

Either it takes way too long to get this info from the telco companies, and/or: they are under-resourced, have a directive or Policy not to put resources into looking at this kind of info until someone is missing for at least 4 weeks, or they have already begun looking at it and are just watching for the reaction of potential suspects to it being reported in the media that they are only now going to start looking at this data.

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/investigators-to-use-new-tactic-in-search-for-ballarat-motherofthree-samantha-murphy-who-disappeared-one-month-ago/news-story/db99ed1dc4d25140363f18fd9c306732

'Investigators to use new tactic in search for Ballarat mother-of-three Samantha Murphy who disappeared one month ago'​

'March 4, 2024 - 10:00AM'

'Investigators looking into the disappearance of Samantha Murphy will use mobile phone tower data to pinpoint the movements of individuals in the area on February 4, the day the mother-of-three disappeared.

Police will harvest phone data from the Ballarat area before conducting background tests in a bid to gain a fresh insight into what happened to Ms Murphy.
...
fears Ms Murphy’s mobile phone battery had run out after six days'

There was a spot on ABC Melbourne radio about this between 5 and 6pm tonight that I listened to too which was the ABC reporter that's been on it from the start talking to Aly Moore.
Ok so first we have reports first of 10,000 bits of data that must be worked through.
Then it comes down to 700 bits that must be looked at thoroughly.
They are looking at the hours before (several) and the hours after the identified time frame.
Suposedly 100 people (tech staff and police) have been working on it.
Now you can't just look at which phones are operative as it might be a combination of when they are being used and when they are switched off and not being used. Phones that would ordinary be on but are then turned off or left elsewhere perhaps (Brian Konenburg or what ever his name is in the States comes to mind here).
And I would say things have to be double tripple checked and also in different combinations.
We know phones can still be pinged even if they are turned off.
They are not just looking for one phone don't forget they are looking at mutiple phones and looking for patterns.
There is lots to work at here, I'm not surprised it's taking the time it has/does really.

 

[SJ]

Four weeks on, and they are only now going to start looking at the phone data of all those in the area?

Either it takes way too long to get this info from the telco companies, and/or: they are under-resourced, have a directive or Policy not to put resources into looking at this kind of info until someone is missing for at least 4 weeks, or they have already begun looking at it and are just watching for the reaction of potential suspects to it being reported in the media that they are only now going to start looking at this data.

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/investigators-to-use-new-tactic-in-search-for-ballarat-motherofthree-samantha-murphy-who-disappeared-one-month-ago/news-story/db99ed1dc4d25140363f18fd9c306732

'Investigators to use new tactic in search for Ballarat mother-of-three Samantha Murphy who disappeared one month ago'​

'March 4, 2024 - 10:00AM'

'Investigators looking into the disappearance of Samantha Murphy will use mobile phone tower data to pinpoint the movements of individuals in the area on February 4, the day the mother-of-three disappeared.

Police will harvest phone data from the Ballarat area before conducting background tests in a bid to gain a fresh insight into what happened to Ms Murphy.
...
fears Ms Murphy’s mobile phone battery had run out after six days'

Surely they did this weeks ago.

I reckon this is just PR given it has been silent for so long. They must be ahead of what they’ve told us.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Surely they did this weeks ago.

It's a SkyNews article.

Enough said.

 

[Awakening]

I can’t recall the names in this American case, but a male murdered another male and the perp didn’t take his phone with him.

The police had a bunch of evidence against him that got a conviction but one of the things the police did was go back over the past 12 months and show the perp never left his house without his phone except the time he murdered a guy.

 

[FTY1]

Former detective warns volunteer searchers may be hurting police investigation into Samantha Murphy

Volunteers have been desperately searching for missing mother Samantha Murphy but their efforts could unfortunately be hampering the police, a former detective tells 7.30.

www.abc.net.au

A former neighbour said the alarm was called because Sam's phone was turned off. They knew she was in trouble. They have a former neighbour, a communications expert and a retired detective in their article.

"All I know is that she was due to come back for brunch, and [her husband] Mick has called Sam and her phone was off and her phone's never off. So after that, he put out the alert."


For the case of Ms Murphy, Mr Gregory expected there could be a team of up to 100 people, from police and the telecommunications companies, trawling through the data and then chasing down the people identified.

"We're probably talking 10 towers if you're going to go around that area," he said.

"They're going to have to find the people, ask what they're doing in the area and follow up. It's a definite task force activity if they seriously look at all the towers ringing that area and go back to look at what happened to [Sissy Austin] a year ago."


Phone data about Samantha Murphy's movements led police to search near Mount Clear in February.
Mr Gregory suggested an automated program had likely been made to look at phone data from the two time periods, to see if the same person was nearby when Ms Austin was attacked, and when Ms Murphy went missing.

"You get a programmer to create a script to compare the data from the two occurrences – that's automated. That's what I'd be doing," he said.

 

[Anja_Nees]

There are little nothing articles cropping up daily. There’s been no real news in a long time.

Either they’re desperate to keep it at the top of the news cycle hoping it triggers someone to come forward with something, or they’re trying to spark a reaction in someone they’re already watching.

 

[31550]

Just not sure this has been confirmed as true : ‘the family did not "look for" her before calling the cops’

When would they have had time to look? The police were called around 11am I think? She had not been missing very long.

 

[MauroFogheri]

Is the above focus on technology to find suspects or prove the case against suspects found through traditional police methods? If the former, and the perpetrators were savvy, it doesn't bode well

 

[Iwonder]

If true, this is really screwy. She could have been 100mtrs away chatting to a neighbour! Makes no sense, unless you were expecting something like this to happen.

If I called the cops every time my DH didn't come home when he said he would and he didn't answer his phone, they would have me charged with wasting police time.

If true, it’s a very swift reaction.

 

[Kurve]

When would they have had time to look? The police were called around 11am I think? She had not been missing very long.

If one of mine had gone for a solo run in the bush and they were an hour late with their phone turned off, I'd be off looking leaving instructions for someone to call the police and wait until they got there.