Banter Who will be Better in 2025, Collingwood or Carlton? Part 4

[Fadge]

I don't think your 'match winner' notion has much logic, rationale or common football sense to it.

Maybe stop reaching for imaginary fudgee arguments and try and be sensible.

I mean, it was a list off the top of my head of current players that have more regularly been more instrumental in clutch moments that have resulted in wins in bigger games across their careers, than Cripps has been throughout his career...

We've now found 9 games in which Cripps can be considered a 'matchwinner' across his 12 year career to date. What is the biggest game amongst that catalogue?

 

[doppleganger]

who were the 'matchwinners' in the 2024 grand final

Does your definition now allow multiples each game?

Which one is deemed more of a matchwinning performance by the peanut gallery I wonder?

Rd 12 2024 vs Port - 22d, 9cp, 3cl, 11si, 2gls (9 touches, 2 goals in the last quarter)
Rd 19 2019 vs Ade - 39d, 24cp, 19cl, 8si, 1gl (8 touches, 0 goals in the last quarter)

Neither fit the bill really as match-winner performances.

S.Walsh and TDK were just as important against Port and take away Cripps quick goals to start Q4 and they win anyway.

Against Adelaide, Cripps was one of 4 Blues to get more than 30 disposals and 2 other Baggers had higher player ratings for that game which Carlton had in control for most of the 2nd half.

You just lost games where Cripps played well, playing well does not equal being a match winner.

 

[Fadge]

Does your definition now allow multiples each game?

The bigger and closer the game, the more matchwinners can be anointed.

When we think about matchwinners, which of the following don't belong:
1. Bobby Hill in the 2023 Grand Final
2. Nick Daicos in the 2023 Grand Final
3. Scott Pendlebury in the 2023 Grand Final
4. Patrick Cripps in Carlton's 61 point win over Richmond in Round 16, 2024. (I kid you not, this was one of the 20 games Walshy nominated).

 

[Worm4]

The bigger and closer the game, the more matchwinners can be anointed.

When we think about matchwinners, which of the following don't belong:
1. Bobby Hill in the 2023 Grand Final
2. Nick Daicos in the 2023 Grand Final
3. Scott Pendlebury in the 2023 Grand Final
4. Patrick Cripps in Carlton's 61 point win over Richmond in Round 16, 2024. (I kid you not, this was one of the 20 games Walshy nominated).

Think about any Carlton player who has played against Collingwood in a Grand Final . All match winners in my opinion. Yes, even Mario Bortolotto

 

[Jock1eyemcpie]

No no, I use it as a rebuttal when one of your mates rolls out a narrow timeline



I must have missed something, aren't we equal on flags won?

Carlton haven’t won a flag since brown paper bags were still used.

 

[JustaBattler]

I mean, it was a list off the top of my head of current players that have more regularly been more instrumental in clutch moments that have resulted in wins in bigger games across their careers, than Cripps has been throughout his career...

We've now found 9 games in which Cripps can be considered a 'matchwinner' across his 12 year career to date. What is the biggest game amongst that catalogue?

As Ive said- I disagree with the whole premise of your idea - "match winner" it is like a lot of your arguments untestable and only a matter of opnion(s)

 

[JustaBattler]

Carlton haven’t won a flag since brown paper bags were still used.

and Collingwood haven't won an un umpire assisted flag since they lost to St Kilda another feather in Collingwood's cap

prove I'm wrong!!
GO

etc etc balh blah blah

 

[Fadge]

As Ive said- I disagree with the whole premise of your idea - "match winner" it is like a lot of your arguments untestable and only a matter of opnion(s)

Of course you do. You need to lower the bar for Cripps to qualify as a 'matchwinner'.

I mean, it is quite a straightforward concept. In the same way 'Premiership contender' is.

 

[Carringbush2010]

i couldn't care less about meaningless metrics, what next, quarters won? It's all about flags

That sounds like 'we're equal on flags, any other team performance metric doesn't count because it exposes my club as not as successful as another' This might be you.

In your opinion of course

But it's not just my opinion, fans and talking heads alike will likely want and do use measures to separate clubs all the time.

There isn't any next better club performance measures than GF, finals won and finals played. You ignore them because it exposes the fact that your club is less successful in those other measures.

Go ahead, it makes you feel better. It won't make the facts go away though. Sorry not sorry.

Back to the thread topic.

 

[Arr0w]

That sounds like 'we're equal on flags, any other team performance metric doesn't count because it exposes my club as not as successful as another' This might be you.

It's okay if you are hunting participant ribbons

But it's not just my opinion, fans and talking heads alike will likely want and do use measures to separate clubs all the time.

Bored clickbaiters, good on them

There isn't any next better club performance measures than GF, finals won and finals played. You ignore them because it exposes the fact that your club is less successful in those other measures.

The only measure for the realists is flags

Go ahead, it makes you feel better. It won't make the facts go away though. Sorry not sorry.

Facts are, we are equal on flags, yet the Pies have been largely irrelevant over 60 odd years

Back to the thread topic.

Finally

 

[Jock1eyemcpie]

It's okay if you are hunting participant ribbons


Bored clickbaiters, good on them


The only measure for the realists is flags


Facts are, we are equal on flags, yet the Pies have been largely irrelevant over [emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]] odd years


Finally

Pies have [emoji639] flags in the last 35 years and [emoji637] spoon. Carlton has [emoji637] flag, 5 spoons and a salary cap scandal and have been largely irrelevant for 30 years. There’s levels to this.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The only measure for the realists is flags

To you maybe and other blose fans, fact is public footy analysts and fans alike disagree with your assessment.

Carry on, it makes you feel better.

Back to the thread topic.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

So the Pies won the thread in 2023, last year was a draw as neither side won the flag, will we have a winner this year?

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Jock1eyemcpie]

and Collingwood haven't won an un umpire assisted flag since they lost to St Kilda another feather in Collingwood's cap

prove I'm wrong!!
GO

etc etc balh blah blah

Nothing you’ve said is fact, it’s just you being a sook. Womp womp.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Nothing you’ve said is fact, it’s just you being a sook. Womp womp.

A bit like everything Fudger says

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So the Pies won the thread in 2023, last year was a draw as neither side won the flag, will we have a winner this year?

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Pretty sure the thread was won by Carlton in 2024. The mods even changed the thread title to announce our win!

 

[Arr0w]

To you maybe and other blose fans, fact is public footy analysts and fans alike disagree with your assessment.

Anything other than pointless cut and paste

Carry on, it makes you feel better.

I always feel great

Back to the thread topic.

Still waiting

 

[Jock1eyemcpie]

Think about any Carlton player who has played against Collingwood in a Grand Final . All match winners in my opinion. Yes, even Mario Bortolotto

Going back 45 years? Really scraping the barrel.

 

[doppleganger]

The bigger and closer the game, the more matchwinners can be anointed.

I can't wait for Walshy to claim there are multiple BOGs in each game as his next special take.

When we think about matchwinners, which of the following don't belong:
1. Bobby Hill in the 2023 Grand Final
2. Nick Daicos in the 2023 Grand Final
3. Scott Pendlebury in the 2023 Grand Final

Bobby was BOG, but did all his work in first half.

Daicos (like he often is in big close games) was involved in a couple of key plays late, not many players composed enough to see and execute the kick to WHE so he can mark and kill the clock.

Pendles was THE Pies player who imposed himself on the game late and ensured the Pies didn't lose.

4. Patrick Cripps in Carlton's 61 point win over Richmond in Round 16, 2024. (I kid you not, this was one of the 20 games Walshy nominated).

Cripps doesn't play, Carlton still easily win.

Pies don't need to pretend Daicos getting 40 in the belting of Melbourne in R24 was a match winning performance, as he actually has numerous big match winning performances....Cripps doesn't.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Going back 45 years? Really scraping the barrel.

Thinking about Pies players that have been matchwinners in grand finals vs the Blues...

Turns out its bloody hard to remember players from 115 years ago

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Cripps doesn't play, Carlton still easily win.

Pies don't need to pretend Daicos getting 40 in the belting of Melbourne in R24 was a match winning performance, as he actually has numerous big match winning performances....Cripps doesn't.

Is that fact or opinion?

All we've heard from Pies fans like yourself is if the Blues lost Cripps we'd be winning the spoon.

 

[doppleganger]

It is interesting that Mick McGuane rates Carltons list as better than the Pies this year.

Plenty of experts have rated Carlton as having a better list than Collingwood every year since 2021.

 

[Jock1eyemcpie]

Thinking about Pies players that have been matchwinners in grand finals vs the Blues...

But its bloody hard to remember players from [emoji637][emoji637][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]] years ago

Pretty hard to remember players from 45 years ago too, especially considering I wasn’t even born yet.

 

[doppleganger]

Is that fact or opinion?

All we've heard from Pies fans like yourself is if the Blues lost Cripps we'd be winning the spoon.

A 10+ goal flogging of a historical woeful wooden spoon team...

There was no match winning performance in a game like that.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I always feel great

Except when the fact that Collingwood has been the best club over the course of the competition.

Still waiting

Well then get back to the thread topic instead trying to fruitlessly reply willful igonorance of facts.

Back to the thread topic.