Test Frank Worrell Trophy Third Test (D/N) West Indies v Australia July 12-16 0400hrs 13/7 @ Sabina Park, Jamaica

[western royboy]

Why then has he had more success at 3-4 than at 6?

What?

He’s had 4 matches at 3 and averages 23 or so. 6 hits at 4 which is inflated by 174 not against NZ and the rest at 6 or 7 wher he averages about his Test average.

If that’s your basis, it’s pretty flimsy. I would hardly call that more success.

 

[Saints4ever]

Renshaw
Mcsweeney
Green
Smith
Head
Webster
Carey
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood

Top 6 instantly better changing the openers.

 

[grumbleguts]

I wonder about Green. He did a decent job at 3 on tough tracks, showed a lot of ticker. When he goes back to Shield where will he bat?

He faced 402 balls this series, by far the most of any batsman in either side. The next highest was 353 (Travis Head)

 

[grumbleguts]

What?

He’s had 4 matches at 3 and averages 23 or so. 6 hits at 4 which is inflated by 174 not against NZ and the rest at 6 or 7 wher he averages about his Test average.

If that’s your basis, it’s pretty flimsy. I would hardly call that more success.

Because of the massive changes in pitch quality, averages aren't as good as average compared to like players in the same match.

 

[sr36]

The knocks on Green are;

He’s a poor starter because he doesn’t move his feet early in his innings and susceptible to the moving ball, which is why he’s a bit better lower down the order where he is less likely to face a new ball

100%, but it's a team game and Green at 3 followed by Smith, Head and Webster is probably still our best 3-6 combo.

 

[cricketnut14]

321 wickets, averages 29.52, strike rate of 51 with red ball.

In India, 53 average and 89 strike rate
In NZ 43 and 63
In UAE 53 and 100
In Pakistan 34 and 77

Funny, only away against West Indies and Sri Lanka does he have ‘elite’ figures

fair shake of the sauce bottle mate.

the guy has just taken his 400th test wicket.

every player has a weakness in their stats when broken down - even the very best.

 

[grumbleguts]

Best test bowling averages since WWII minimum 2000 deliveries

Player

Span

Mat

Overs

Mdns

Balls

Runs

Wkts

BBI

Ave

Econ

SR

4​

5​

10​

SM Boland (AUS)

2021-2025

14​

372​

95​

2232​

1025​

62​

6-Jul​

16.53​

2.75​

36​

2​

2​

1​

FH Tyson (ENG)

1954-1959

17​

-

97​

3452​

1411​

76​

Jul-27​

18.56​

2.45​

45.42​

3​

4​

1​

AR Patel (IND)

2021-2024

14​

423.2​

96​

2540​

1064​

55​

Jun-38​

19.34​

2.51​

46.18​

2​

5​

1​

JJ Bumrah (IND)

2018-2025

47​

1525​

361​

9150​

4229​

217​

Jun-27​

19.48​

2.77​

42.16​

7​

15​

-

KA Jamieson (NZ)

2020-2024

19​

593​

187​

3558​

1579​

80​

Jun-48​

19.73​

2.66​

44.47​

4​

5​

1​

JH Wardle (ENG)

1948-1957

28​

-

403​

6597​

2080​

102​

Jul-36​

20.39​

1.89​

64.67​

7​

5​

1​

AK Davidson (AUS)

1953-1963

44​

-

431​

11587​

3819​

186​

Jul-93​

20.53​

1.97​

62.29​

6​

14​

2​

K Higgs (ENG)

1965-1968

15​

-

194​

4112​

1473​

71​

Jun-91​

20.74​

2.14​

57.91​

6​

2​

-

MD Marshall (WI)

1978-1991

81​

2930.4​

614​

17584​

7876​

376​

Jul-22​

20.94​

2.68​

46.76​

19​

22​

4​

J Garner (WI)

1977-1987

58​

2194.5​

576​

13169​

5433​

259​

Jun-56​

20.97​

2.47​

50.84​

18​

7​

-

CEL Ambrose (WI)

1988-2000

98​

3683.5​

1001​

22103​

8501​

405​

Aug-45​

20.99​

2.3​

54.57​

21​

22​

3​

ERH Toshack (AUS)

1946-1948

12​

-

155​

3140​

989​

47​

Jun-29​

21.04​

1.88​

66.8​

2​

4​

1​

NAT Adcock (SA)

1953-1962

26​

-

218​

6391​

2195​

104​

Jun-43​

21.1​

2.06​

61.45​

5​

5​

-

JC Laker (ENG)

1948-1959

46​

-

674​

12027​

4101​

193​

Oct-53​

21.24​

2.04​

62.31​

13​

9​

3​

FS Trueman (ENG)

1952-1965

67​

-

522​

15178​

6625​

307​

Aug-31​

21.57​

2.61​

49.43​

19​

17​

3​

GD McGrath (AUS)

1993-2007

124​

4874.4​

1470​

29248​

12186​

563​

Aug-24​

21.64​

2.49​

51.95​

28​

29​

3​

K Rabada (SA)

2015-2025

71​

2183.2​

433​

13100​

7306​

336​

7/112

21.74​

3.34​

38.98​

15​

17​

4​

M Jansen (SA)

2021-2025

18​

488.1​

86​

2929​

1696​

77​

Jul-13​

22.02​

3.47​

38.03​

5​

3​

1​

SE Bond (NZ)

2001-2009

18​

562​

113​

3372​

1922​

87​

Jun-51​

22.09​

3.41​

38.75​

7​

5​

1​

PJ Cummins (AUS)

2011-2025

71​

2364.3​

514​

14187​

6829​

309​

Jun-23​

22.1​

2.88​

45.91​

17​

14​

2​

Kuldeep Yadav (IND)

2017-2024

13​

348.5​

46​

2093​

1241​

56​

May-40​

22.16​

3.55​

37.37​

3​

4​

-

AA Donald (SA)

1992-2002

72​

2586.3​

661​

15519​

7344​

330​

Aug-71​

22.25​

2.83​

47.02​

11​

20​

3​

Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ)

1973-1990

86​

-

809​

21918​

9611​

431​

Sep-52​

22.29​

2.63​

50.85​

25​

36​

9​

JNT Seales (WI)

2021-2025

21​

577.2​

117​

3464​

1965​

88​

Jun-61​

22.32​

3.4​

39.36​

4​

3​

-

VD Philander (SA)

2011-2020

64​

1898.3​

507​

11391​

5000​

224​

Jun-21​

22.32​

2.63​

50.85​

8​

13​

2​

PJ Loader (ENG)

1954-1959

13​

-

115​

2662​

878​

39​

Jun-36​

22.51​

1.97​

68.25​

2​

1​

-

KJ Abbott (SA)

2013-2017

11​

346.5​

95​

2081​

886​

39​

Jul-29​

22.71​

2.55​

53.35​

-

3​

-

M Muralidaran (ICC/SL)

1992-2010

133​

7339.5​

1794​

44039​

18180​

800​

Sep-51​

22.72​

2.47​

55.04​

45​

67​

22​

Imran Khan (PAK)

1971-1992

88​

-

727​

19458​

8258​

362​

Aug-58​

22.81​

2.54​

53.75​

17​

23​

6​

LF Kline (AUS)

1957-1961

13​

-

113​

2373​

776​

34​

Jul-75​

22.82​

1.96​

69.79​

2​

1​

-

OE Robinson (ENG)

2021-2024

20​

632.4​

159​

3796​

1742​

76​

May-49​

22.92​

2.75​

49.94​

4​

3​

-

DW Steyn (SA)

2004-2019

93​

3101.2​

660​

18608​

10077​

439​

Jul-51​

22.95​

3.24​

42.38​

27​

26​

5​

KR Miller (AUS)

1946-1956

55​

-

337​

10461​

3906​

170​

Jul-60​

22.97​

2.24​

61.53​

8​

7​

1​

Shabbir Ahmed (PAK)

2003-2005

10​

429.2​

97​

2576​

1175​

51​

May-48​

23.03​

2.73​

50.5​

5​

2​

-

RR Lindwall (AUS)

1946-1960

61​

-

419​

13650​

5251​

228​

Jul-38​

23.03​

2.3​

59.86​

8​

12​

-

SM Pollock (SA)

1995-2008

108​

4058.5​

1222​

24353​

9733​

421​

Jul-87​

23.11​

2.39​

57.84​

23​

16​

1​

Mohammad Abbas (PAK)

2017-2025

27​

925.4​

272​

5554​

2318​

100​

Jun-54​

23.18​

2.5​

55.54​

6​

5​

1​

CEH Croft (WI)

1977-1982

27​

1027.3​

211​

6165​

2913​

125​

Aug-29​

23.3​

2.83​

49.32​

7​

3​

-

L Ngidi (SA)

2018-2025

20​

429.4​

100​

2578​

1356​

58​

Jun-39​

23.37​

3.15​

44.44​

1​

3​

-

RJ Harris (AUS)

2010-2015

27​

956​

258​

5736​

2658​

113​

7/117

23.52​

2.78​

50.76​

4​

5​

-

Waqar Younis (PAK)

1989-2003

87​

2704​

516​

16224​

8788​

373​

Jul-76​

23.56​

3.25​

43.49​

28​

22​

5​

Wasim Akram (PAK)

1985-2002

104​

3771.1​

871​

22627​

9779​

414​

7/119

23.62​

2.59​

54.65​

20​

25​

5​

MA Holding (WI)

1975-1987

60​

-

459​

12680​

5898​

249​

Aug-92​

23.68​

2.79​

50.92​

11​

13​

2​

SR Clark (AUS)

2006-2009

24​

857.4​

230​

5146​

2243​

94​

May-32​

23.86​

2.61​

54.74​

6​

2​

-

Pervez Sajjad (PAK)

1964-1973

19​

-

217​

4145​

1410​

59​

Jul-74​

23.89​

2.04​

70.25​

4​

3​

-

WA Johnston (AUS)

1947-1955

40​

-

372​

11048​

3826​

160​

Jun-44​

23.91​

2.07​

69.05​

8​

7​

-

DK Lillee (AUS)

1971-1984

70​

-

652​

18467​

8493​

355​

Jul-83​

23.92​

2.75​

52.01​

23​

23​

7​

Khan Mohammad (PAK)

1952-1958

13​

526.1​

153​

3157​

1292​

54​

Jun-21​

23.92​

2.45​

58.46​

4​

4​

-

R Ashwin (IND)

2011-2024

106​

4541​

907​

27246​

12891​

537​

Jul-59​

24​

2.83​

50.73​

25​

37​

8​

PM Pollock (SA)

1961-1970

28​

-

270​

6522​

2806​

116​

Jun-38​

24.18​

2.58​

56.22​

1​

9​

1​

JR Hazlewood (AUS)

2014-2025

76​

2570.3​

657​

15423​

7144​

295​

Jun-67​

24.21​

2.77​

52.28​

11​

13​

-

D Olivier (SA)

2017-2024

16​

382​

64​

2292​

1432​

59​

Jun-37​

24.27​

3.74​

38.84​

1​

3​

1​

PS de Villiers (SA)

1993-1998

18​

800.5​

221​

4805​

2063​

85​

Jun-23​

24.27​

2.57​

56.52​

6​

5​

2​

IR Bishop (WI)

1989-1998

43​

1401.1​

288​

8407​

3909​

161​

Jun-40​

24.27​

2.78​

52.21​

6​

6​

-

Mohammad Asif (PAK)

2005-2010

23​

861.5​

200​

5171​

2583​

106​

Jun-41​

24.36​

2.99​

48.78​

6​

7​

1​

CA Walsh (WI)

1984-2001

132​

5003.1​

1144​

30019​

12688​

519​

Jul-37​

24.44​

2.53​

57.84​

32​

22​

3​

BA Reid (AUS)

1985-1992

27​

1040.4​

244​

6244​

2784​

113​

Jul-51​

24.63​

2.67​

55.25​

11​

5​

2​

Fazal Mahmood (PAK)

1952-1962

34​

1639​

560​

9834​

3434​

139​

Jul-42​

24.7​

2.09​

70.74​

6​

13​

4​

Noman Ali (PAK)

2021-2025

19​

682.4​

117​

4096​

2055​

83​

Aug-46​

24.75​

3.01​

49.34​

2​

8​

2​

JB Statham (ENG)

1951-1965

70​

-

595​

16056​

6261​

252​

Jul-39​

24.84​

2.33​

63.71​

9​

9​

1​

AV Bedser (ENG)

1946-1955

51​

-

574​

15918​

5876​

236​

Jul-44​

24.89​

2.21​

67.44​

11​

15​

5​

RA Jadeja (IND)

2012-2025

83​

3177.5​

742​

19067​

8129​

326​

Jul-42​

24.93​

2.55​

58.48​

13​

15​

3​

 

[grumbleguts]

321 wickets, averages 29.52, strike rate of 51 with red ball.

In India, 53 average and 89 strike rate
In NZ 43 and 63
In UAE 53 and 100
In Pakistan 34 and 77

Funny, only away against West Indies and Sri Lanka does he have ‘elite’ figures

A least he's not an utter piece of shit like every England player ever.

 

[HitTheNailOnTheHead]

Pink ball and minnows, his favourite combination.

Mate, he could get a 10 wicket haul with the red ball and you'd have another excuse to throw shade on his performance. You've been hating on the guy for well over a decade now. Must really shit you no end he's still in the side.

 

[eddiesmith]

Mate, he could get a 10 wicket haul with the red ball and you'd have another excuse to throw shade on his performance. You've been hating on the guy for well over a decade now. Must really shit you no end he's still in the side.

Mate the day he takes 10 wickets with the red ball is when he goes back to play a 7th XI club game.

 

[SportsCentre]

When Siraj watched the ball roll into his stumps in the early hours of this morning to give England victory, I thought that would be the weirdest cricket event I would see for a while. I checked the WI score upon waking up this morning.

Boy was I wrong.......

 

[SportsCentre]

Best test bowling averages since WWII minimum 2000 deliveries

Player

Span

Mat

Overs

Mdns

Balls

Runs

Wkts

BBI

Ave

Econ

SR

4​

5​

10​

SM Boland (AUS)

2021-2025

14​

372​

95​

2232​

1025​

62​

6-Jul​

16.53​

2.75​

36​

2​

2​

1​

FH Tyson (ENG)

1954-1959

17​

-

97​

3452​

1411​

76​

Jul-27​

18.56​

2.45​

45.42​

3​

4​

1​

AR Patel (IND)

2021-2024

14​

423.2​

96​

2540​

1064​

55​

Jun-38​

19.34​

2.51​

46.18​

2​

5​

1​

JJ Bumrah (IND)

2018-2025

47​

1525​

361​

9150​

4229​

217​

Jun-27​

19.48​

2.77​

42.16​

7​

15​

-

KA Jamieson (NZ)

2020-2024

19​

593​

187​

3558​

1579​

80​

Jun-48​

19.73​

2.66​

44.47​

4​

5​

1​

JH Wardle (ENG)

1948-1957

28​

-

403​

6597​

2080​

102​

Jul-36​

20.39​

1.89​

64.67​

7​

5​

1​

AK Davidson (AUS)

1953-1963

44​

-

431​

11587​

3819​

186​

Jul-93​

20.53​

1.97​

62.29​

6​

14​

2​

K Higgs (ENG)

1965-1968

15​

-

194​

4112​

1473​

71​

Jun-91​

20.74​

2.14​

57.91​

6​

2​

-

MD Marshall (WI)

1978-1991

81​

2930.4​

614​

17584​

7876​

376​

Jul-22​

20.94​

2.68​

46.76​

19​

22​

4​

J Garner (WI)

1977-1987

58​

2194.5​

576​

13169​

5433​

259​

Jun-56​

20.97​

2.47​

50.84​

18​

7​

-

CEL Ambrose (WI)

1988-2000

98​

3683.5​

1001​

22103​

8501​

405​

Aug-45​

20.99​

2.3​

54.57​

21​

22​

3​

ERH Toshack (AUS)

1946-1948

12​

-

155​

3140​

989​

47​

Jun-29​

21.04​

1.88​

66.8​

2​

4​

1​

NAT Adcock (SA)

1953-1962

26​

-

218​

6391​

2195​

104​

Jun-43​

21.1​

2.06​

61.45​

5​

5​

-

JC Laker (ENG)

1948-1959

46​

-

674​

12027​

4101​

193​

Oct-53​

21.24​

2.04​

62.31​

13​

9​

3​

FS Trueman (ENG)

1952-1965

67​

-

522​

15178​

6625​

307​

Aug-31​

21.57​

2.61​

49.43​

19​

17​

3​

GD McGrath (AUS)

1993-2007

124​

4874.4​

1470​

29248​

12186​

563​

Aug-24​

21.64​

2.49​

51.95​

28​

29​

3​

K Rabada (SA)

2015-2025

71​

2183.2​

433​

13100​

7306​

336​

7/112

21.74​

3.34​

38.98​

15​

17​

4​

M Jansen (SA)

2021-2025

18​

488.1​

86​

2929​

1696​

77​

Jul-13​

22.02​

3.47​

38.03​

5​

3​

1​

SE Bond (NZ)

2001-2009

18​

562​

113​

3372​

1922​

87​

Jun-51​

22.09​

3.41​

38.75​

7​

5​

1​

PJ Cummins (AUS)

2011-2025

71​

2364.3​

514​

14187​

6829​

309​

Jun-23​

22.1​

2.88​

45.91​

17​

14​

2​

Kuldeep Yadav (IND)

2017-2024

13​

348.5​

46​

2093​

1241​

56​

May-40​

22.16​

3.55​

37.37​

3​

4​

-

AA Donald (SA)

1992-2002

72​

2586.3​

661​

15519​

7344​

330​

Aug-71​

22.25​

2.83​

47.02​

11​

20​

3​

Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ)

1973-1990

86​

-

809​

21918​

9611​

431​

Sep-52​

22.29​

2.63​

50.85​

25​

36​

9​

JNT Seales (WI)

2021-2025

21​

577.2​

117​

3464​

1965​

88​

Jun-61​

22.32​

3.4​

39.36​

4​

3​

-

VD Philander (SA)

2011-2020

64​

1898.3​

507​

11391​

5000​

224​

Jun-21​

22.32​

2.63​

50.85​

8​

13​

2​

PJ Loader (ENG)

1954-1959

13​

-

115​

2662​

878​

39​

Jun-36​

22.51​

1.97​

68.25​

2​

1​

-

KJ Abbott (SA)

2013-2017

11​

346.5​

95​

2081​

886​

39​

Jul-29​

22.71​

2.55​

53.35​

-

3​

-

M Muralidaran (ICC/SL)

1992-2010

133​

7339.5​

1794​

44039​

18180​

800​

Sep-51​

22.72​

2.47​

55.04​

45​

67​

22​

Imran Khan (PAK)

1971-1992

88​

-

727​

19458​

8258​

362​

Aug-58​

22.81​

2.54​

53.75​

17​

23​

6​

LF Kline (AUS)

1957-1961

13​

-

113​

2373​

776​

34​

Jul-75​

22.82​

1.96​

69.79​

2​

1​

-

OE Robinson (ENG)

2021-2024

20​

632.4​

159​

3796​

1742​

76​

May-49​

22.92​

2.75​

49.94​

4​

3​

-

DW Steyn (SA)

2004-2019

93​

3101.2​

660​

18608​

10077​

439​

Jul-51​

22.95​

3.24​

42.38​

27​

26​

5​

KR Miller (AUS)

1946-1956

55​

-

337​

10461​

3906​

170​

Jul-60​

22.97​

2.24​

61.53​

8​

7​

1​

Shabbir Ahmed (PAK)

2003-2005

10​

429.2​

97​

2576​

1175​

51​

May-48​

23.03​

2.73​

50.5​

5​

2​

-

RR Lindwall (AUS)

1946-1960

61​

-

419​

13650​

5251​

228​

Jul-38​

23.03​

2.3​

59.86​

8​

12​

-

SM Pollock (SA)

1995-2008

108​

4058.5​

1222​

24353​

9733​

421​

Jul-87​

23.11​

2.39​

57.84​

23​

16​

1​

Mohammad Abbas (PAK)

2017-2025

27​

925.4​

272​

5554​

2318​

100​

Jun-54​

23.18​

2.5​

55.54​

6​

5​

1​

CEH Croft (WI)

1977-1982

27​

1027.3​

211​

6165​

2913​

125​

Aug-29​

23.3​

2.83​

49.32​

7​

3​

-

L Ngidi (SA)

2018-2025

20​

429.4​

100​

2578​

1356​

58​

Jun-39​

23.37​

3.15​

44.44​

1​

3​

-

RJ Harris (AUS)

2010-2015

27​

956​

258​

5736​

2658​

113​

7/117

23.52​

2.78​

50.76​

4​

5​

-

Waqar Younis (PAK)

1989-2003

87​

2704​

516​

16224​

8788​

373​

Jul-76​

23.56​

3.25​

43.49​

28​

22​

5​

Wasim Akram (PAK)

1985-2002

104​

3771.1​

871​

22627​

9779​

414​

7/119

23.62​

2.59​

54.65​

20​

25​

5​

MA Holding (WI)

1975-1987

60​

-

459​

12680​

5898​

249​

Aug-92​

23.68​

2.79​

50.92​

11​

13​

2​

SR Clark (AUS)

2006-2009

24​

857.4​

230​

5146​

2243​

94​

May-32​

23.86​

2.61​

54.74​

6​

2​

-

Pervez Sajjad (PAK)

1964-1973

19​

-

217​

4145​

1410​

59​

Jul-74​

23.89​

2.04​

70.25​

4​

3​

-

WA Johnston (AUS)

1947-1955

40​

-

372​

11048​

3826​

160​

Jun-44​

23.91​

2.07​

69.05​

8​

7​

-

DK Lillee (AUS)

1971-1984

70​

-

652​

18467​

8493​

355​

Jul-83​

23.92​

2.75​

52.01​

23​

23​

7​

Khan Mohammad (PAK)

1952-1958

13​

526.1​

153​

3157​

1292​

54​

Jun-21​

23.92​

2.45​

58.46​

4​

4​

-

R Ashwin (IND)

2011-2024

106​

4541​

907​

27246​

12891​

537​

Jul-59​

24​

2.83​

50.73​

25​

37​

8​

PM Pollock (SA)

1961-1970

28​

-

270​

6522​

2806​

116​

Jun-38​

24.18​

2.58​

56.22​

1​

9​

1​

JR Hazlewood (AUS)

2014-2025

76​

2570.3​

657​

15423​

7144​

295​

Jun-67​

24.21​

2.77​

52.28​

11​

13​

-

D Olivier (SA)

2017-2024

16​

382​

64​

2292​

1432​

59​

Jun-37​

24.27​

3.74​

38.84​

1​

3​

1​

PS de Villiers (SA)

1993-1998

18​

800.5​

221​

4805​

2063​

85​

Jun-23​

24.27​

2.57​

56.52​

6​

5​

2​

IR Bishop (WI)

1989-1998

43​

1401.1​

288​

8407​

3909​

161​

Jun-40​

24.27​

2.78​

52.21​

6​

6​

-

Mohammad Asif (PAK)

2005-2010

23​

861.5​

200​

5171​

2583​

106​

Jun-41​

24.36​

2.99​

48.78​

6​

7​

1​

CA Walsh (WI)

1984-2001

132​

5003.1​

1144​

30019​

12688​

519​

Jul-37​

24.44​

2.53​

57.84​

32​

22​

3​

BA Reid (AUS)

1985-1992

27​

1040.4​

244​

6244​

2784​

113​

Jul-51​

24.63​

2.67​

55.25​

11​

5​

2​

Fazal Mahmood (PAK)

1952-1962

34​

1639​

560​

9834​

3434​

139​

Jul-42​

24.7​

2.09​

70.74​

6​

13​

4​

Noman Ali (PAK)

2021-2025

19​

682.4​

117​

4096​

2055​

83​

Aug-46​

24.75​

3.01​

49.34​

2​

8​

2​

JB Statham (ENG)

1951-1965

70​

-

595​

16056​

6261​

252​

Jul-39​

24.84​

2.33​

63.71​

9​

9​

1​

AV Bedser (ENG)

1946-1955

51​

-

574​

15918​

5876​

236​

Jul-44​

24.89​

2.21​

67.44​

11​

15​

5​

RA Jadeja (IND)

2012-2025

83​

3177.5​

742​

19067​

8129​

326​

Jul-42​

24.93​

2.55​

58.48​

13​

15​

3​

Why does it feel like Hazlewood has played way less than 76 tests?

and how good could Bruce Reid have been if not for the injuries?

 

[CrowBloke]

I feel like you learn a lot about someone if you drop a catch off their bowling, I mean no one means to drop them of course, it's part of cricket, look after your team mates etc.

That's the thing. No-one means to drop a catch. Ever.
I had several catches missed in first over or two of an Innings --- the slips are not really focussed, their hands are hard or they snatch at an early chance (too eager).
It was made up for the fact that even at that level, blokes took some real screamers.

I was always disappointed of course, but my standard line was that there'd be another chance, you know, focus on the next one.

 

[CrowBloke]

****ing don't give Green the ball. Don't do it. Physically take it off him, and if you catch him thinking nostalgically about bowling fetch a stool so you can reach and slap him across his golden retriever-esque face.

Gold .

We do not need Cameron Green to bowl. We need him to average more than 40 with the bat. Runs are at an all time premium, and we still have one of the best across the board attacks ever assembled in Australian colours as well as an all rounder averaging 35 with the bat and 27 with the ball.

Let him bat and field at gully. That's it.

You're right. His batting is much more important to the team.

I'd be tempted to play Green and Webster and use Green as a last resort bowling option for at most a 3-over, hopefully partnership-breaking spell. Occasionally.

Side-issue: when's the last time Lyon bowled us to a win on a turner?
Cummins/Hazlewood/Starc/ Boland are a fantastic combo, with Webster as back-up and part-time spin from Head and Lab if he plays.

 

[CrowBloke]

**** the sub-continent.

My thought, exactly.

The Ashes is the series to focus on.

 

[Neese]

Why does it feel like Hazlewood has played way less than 76 tests?

and how good could Bruce Reid have been if not for the injuries?

I loved watching Bruce Reid.

 

[Westend]

Renshaw
Mcsweeney
Green
Smith
Head
Webster
Carey
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood

Top 6 instantly better changing the openers.

I think it is way too early to be naming a team for the ashes at this stage

heaps of cricket to come Aus a tours shield white ball before the West Test

 

[sabso]

Best test bowling averages since WWII minimum 2000 deliveries

Player

Span

Mat

Overs

Mdns

Balls

Runs

Wkts

BBI

Ave

Econ

SR

4​

5​

10​

SM Boland (AUS)

2021-2025

14​

372​

95​

2232​

1025​

62​

6-Jul​

16.53​

2.75​

36​

2​

2​

1​

FH Tyson (ENG)

1954-1959

17​

-

97​

3452​

1411​

76​

Jul-27​

18.56​

2.45​

45.42​

3​

4​

1​

AR Patel (IND)

2021-2024

14​

423.2​

96​

2540​

1064​

55​

Jun-38​

19.34​

2.51​

46.18​

2​

5​

1​

JJ Bumrah (IND)

2018-2025

47​

1525​

361​

9150​

4229​

217​

Jun-27​

19.48​

2.77​

42.16​

7​

15​

-

KA Jamieson (NZ)

2020-2024

19​

593​

187​

3558​

1579​

80​

Jun-48​

19.73​

2.66​

44.47​

4​

5​

1​

JH Wardle (ENG)

1948-1957

28​

-

403​

6597​

2080​

102​

Jul-36​

20.39​

1.89​

64.67​

7​

5​

1​

AK Davidson (AUS)

1953-1963

44​

-

431​

11587​

3819​

186​

Jul-93​

20.53​

1.97​

62.29​

6​

14​

2​

K Higgs (ENG)

1965-1968

15​

-

194​

4112​

1473​

71​

Jun-91​

20.74​

2.14​

57.91​

6​

2​

-

MD Marshall (WI)

1978-1991

81​

2930.4​

614​

17584​

7876​

376​

Jul-22​

20.94​

2.68​

46.76​

19​

22​

4​

J Garner (WI)

1977-1987

58​

2194.5​

576​

13169​

5433​

259​

Jun-56​

20.97​

2.47​

50.84​

18​

7​

-

CEL Ambrose (WI)

1988-2000

98​

3683.5​

1001​

22103​

8501​

405​

Aug-45​

20.99​

2.3​

54.57​

21​

22​

3​

ERH Toshack (AUS)

1946-1948

12​

-

155​

3140​

989​

47​

Jun-29​

21.04​

1.88​

66.8​

2​

4​

1​

NAT Adcock (SA)

1953-1962

26​

-

218​

6391​

2195​

104​

Jun-43​

21.1​

2.06​

61.45​

5​

5​

-

JC Laker (ENG)

1948-1959

46​

-

674​

12027​

4101​

193​

Oct-53​

21.24​

2.04​

62.31​

13​

9​

3​

FS Trueman (ENG)

1952-1965

67​

-

522​

15178​

6625​

307​

Aug-31​

21.57​

2.61​

49.43​

19​

17​

3​

GD McGrath (AUS)

1993-2007

124​

4874.4​

1470​

29248​

12186​

563​

Aug-24​

21.64​

2.49​

51.95​

28​

29​

3​

K Rabada (SA)

2015-2025

71​

2183.2​

433​

13100​

7306​

336​

7/112

21.74​

3.34​

38.98​

15​

17​

4​

M Jansen (SA)

2021-2025

18​

488.1​

86​

2929​

1696​

77​

Jul-13​

22.02​

3.47​

38.03​

5​

3​

1​

SE Bond (NZ)

2001-2009

18​

562​

113​

3372​

1922​

87​

Jun-51​

22.09​

3.41​

38.75​

7​

5​

1​

PJ Cummins (AUS)

2011-2025

71​

2364.3​

514​

14187​

6829​

309​

Jun-23​

22.1​

2.88​

45.91​

17​

14​

2​

Kuldeep Yadav (IND)

2017-2024

13​

348.5​

46​

2093​

1241​

56​

May-40​

22.16​

3.55​

37.37​

3​

4​

-

AA Donald (SA)

1992-2002

72​

2586.3​

661​

15519​

7344​

330​

Aug-71​

22.25​

2.83​

47.02​

11​

20​

3​

Sir RJ Hadlee (NZ)

1973-1990

86​

-

809​

21918​

9611​

431​

Sep-52​

22.29​

2.63​

50.85​

25​

36​

9​

JNT Seales (WI)

2021-2025

21​

577.2​

117​

3464​

1965​

88​

Jun-61​

22.32​

3.4​

39.36​

4​

3​

-

VD Philander (SA)

2011-2020

64​

1898.3​

507​

11391​

5000​

224​

Jun-21​

22.32​

2.63​

50.85​

8​

13​

2​

PJ Loader (ENG)

1954-1959

13​

-

115​

2662​

878​

39​

Jun-36​

22.51​

1.97​

68.25​

2​

1​

-

KJ Abbott (SA)

2013-2017

11​

346.5​

95​

2081​

886​

39​

Jul-29​

22.71​

2.55​

53.35​

-

3​

-

M Muralidaran (ICC/SL)

1992-2010

133​

7339.5​

1794​

44039​

18180​

800​

Sep-51​

22.72​

2.47​

55.04​

45​

67​

22​

Imran Khan (PAK)

1971-1992

88​

-

727​

19458​

8258​

362​

Aug-58​

22.81​

2.54​

53.75​

17​

23​

6​

LF Kline (AUS)

1957-1961

13​

-

113​

2373​

776​

34​

Jul-75​

22.82​

1.96​

69.79​

2​

1​

-

OE Robinson (ENG)

2021-2024

20​

632.4​

159​

3796​

1742​

76​

May-49​

22.92​

2.75​

49.94​

4​

3​

-

DW Steyn (SA)

2004-2019

93​

3101.2​

660​

18608​

10077​

439​

Jul-51​

22.95​

3.24​

42.38​

27​

26​

5​

KR Miller (AUS)

1946-1956

55​

-

337​

10461​

3906​

170​

Jul-60​

22.97​

2.24​

61.53​

8​

7​

1​

Shabbir Ahmed (PAK)

2003-2005

10​

429.2​

97​

2576​

1175​

51​

May-48​

23.03​

2.73​

50.5​

5​

2​

-

RR Lindwall (AUS)

1946-1960

61​

-

419​

13650​

5251​

228​

Jul-38​

23.03​

2.3​

59.86​

8​

12​

-

SM Pollock (SA)

1995-2008

108​

4058.5​

1222​

24353​

9733​

421​

Jul-87​

23.11​

2.39​

57.84​

23​

16​

1​

Mohammad Abbas (PAK)

2017-2025

27​

925.4​

272​

5554​

2318​

100​

Jun-54​

23.18​

2.5​

55.54​

6​

5​

1​

CEH Croft (WI)

1977-1982

27​

1027.3​

211​

6165​

2913​

125​

Aug-29​

23.3​

2.83​

49.32​

7​

3​

-

L Ngidi (SA)

2018-2025

20​

429.4​

100​

2578​

1356​

58​

Jun-39​

23.37​

3.15​

44.44​

1​

3​

-

RJ Harris (AUS)

2010-2015

27​

956​

258​

5736​

2658​

113​

7/117

23.52​

2.78​

50.76​

4​

5​

-

Waqar Younis (PAK)

1989-2003

87​

2704​

516​

16224​

8788​

373​

Jul-76​

23.56​

3.25​

43.49​

28​

22​

5​

Wasim Akram (PAK)

1985-2002

104​

3771.1​

871​

22627​

9779​

414​

7/119

23.62​

2.59​

54.65​

20​

25​

5​

MA Holding (WI)

1975-1987

60​

-

459​

12680​

5898​

249​

Aug-92​

23.68​

2.79​

50.92​

11​

13​

2​

SR Clark (AUS)

2006-2009

24​

857.4​

230​

5146​

2243​

94​

May-32​

23.86​

2.61​

54.74​

6​

2​

-

Pervez Sajjad (PAK)

1964-1973

19​

-

217​

4145​

1410​

59​

Jul-74​

23.89​

2.04​

70.25​

4​

3​

-

WA Johnston (AUS)

1947-1955

40​

-

372​

11048​

3826​

160​

Jun-44​

23.91​

2.07​

69.05​

8​

7​

-

DK Lillee (AUS)

1971-1984

70​

-

652​

18467​

8493​

355​

Jul-83​

23.92​

2.75​

52.01​

23​

23​

7​

Khan Mohammad (PAK)

1952-1958

13​

526.1​

153​

3157​

1292​

54​

Jun-21​

23.92​

2.45​

58.46​

4​

4​

-

R Ashwin (IND)

2011-2024

106​

4541​

907​

27246​

12891​

537​

Jul-59​

24​

2.83​

50.73​

25​

37​

8​

PM Pollock (SA)

1961-1970

28​

-

270​

6522​

2806​

116​

Jun-38​

24.18​

2.58​

56.22​

1​

9​

1​

JR Hazlewood (AUS)

2014-2025

76​

2570.3​

657​

15423​

7144​

295​

Jun-67​

24.21​

2.77​

52.28​

11​

13​

-

D Olivier (SA)

2017-2024

16​

382​

64​

2292​

1432​

59​

Jun-37​

24.27​

3.74​

38.84​

1​

3​

1​

PS de Villiers (SA)

1993-1998

18​

800.5​

221​

4805​

2063​

85​

Jun-23​

24.27​

2.57​

56.52​

6​

5​

2​

IR Bishop (WI)

1989-1998

43​

1401.1​

288​

8407​

3909​

161​

Jun-40​

24.27​

2.78​

52.21​

6​

6​

-

Mohammad Asif (PAK)

2005-2010

23​

861.5​

200​

5171​

2583​

106​

Jun-41​

24.36​

2.99​

48.78​

6​

7​

1​

CA Walsh (WI)

1984-2001

132​

5003.1​

1144​

30019​

12688​

519​

Jul-37​

24.44​

2.53​

57.84​

32​

22​

3​

BA Reid (AUS)

1985-1992

27​

1040.4​

244​

6244​

2784​

113​

Jul-51​

24.63​

2.67​

55.25​

11​

5​

2​

Fazal Mahmood (PAK)

1952-1962

34​

1639​

560​

9834​

3434​

139​

Jul-42​

24.7​

2.09​

70.74​

6​

13​

4​

Noman Ali (PAK)

2021-2025

19​

682.4​

117​

4096​

2055​

83​

Aug-46​

24.75​

3.01​

49.34​

2​

8​

2​

JB Statham (ENG)

1951-1965

70​

-

595​

16056​

6261​

252​

Jul-39​

24.84​

2.33​

63.71​

9​

9​

1​

AV Bedser (ENG)

1946-1955

51​

-

574​

15918​

5876​

236​

Jul-44​

24.89​

2.21​

67.44​

11​

15​

5​

RA Jadeja (IND)

2012-2025

83​

3177.5​

742​

19067​

8129​

326​

Jul-42​

24.93​

2.55​

58.48​

13​

15​

3​

Yeah you pasted the cricinfo table into excel

Jul-51 ffs

 

[sr36]

The one-series sample sizes in each of those four places aside from India are very definitive

Really? You wouldn't judge Starc's career based on a couple of tests on spinners decks in the UAE back in 2014?

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Maybe it's time to sack Lyon, play Boland and let Webster bowl offspin.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

321 wickets, averages 29.52, strike rate of 51 with red ball.

In India, 53 average and 89 strike rate
In NZ 43 and 63
In UAE 53 and 100
In Pakistan 34 and 77

Funny, only away against West Indies and Sri Lanka does he have ‘elite’ figures

I used to be critical of his erratic nature but cannot deny him now as a great Australian bowler.
Even if we split his stats as you have done there's nothing wrong with a S/R of 51. Michael Holding is 50.9 and Mitchell Johnson 51.1

His overall S/R has only 12 bowlers in the history of the game (min 100 wickets) striking at a better rate.

As an aside 0.67 is all that separates Anderson and Starc for bowling averages.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

how good could Bruce Reid have been if not for the injuries?

Bruce Reid was magnificent. An injury free run would have seen him with 500 Test wickets IMHO.

 

[beatnik]

I used to be critical of his erratic nature but cannot deny him now as a great Australian bowler.
Even if we split his stats as you have done there's nothing wrong with a S/R of 51. Michael Holding is 50.9 and Mitchell Johnson 51.1

His overall S/R has only 12 bowlers in the history of the game (min 100 wickets) striking at a better rate.

As an aside 0.67 is all that separates Anderson and Starc for bowling averages.

Starc is so much better than Anderson

 

[Aussie in exile]

On the subject of fast bowlers the best 2 i have seen in my lifetime are Dennis Lillee and Michael Holding, with Dennis just shading it.

 

[Gough]

Mitchell Johnson in the 13/14 Ashes is as good as I've ever seen.