Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[JackOutback]

Starting to think i have the beginnings of plan:

W.A thumbs their nose at the AFL and the rest of the country and leave.
Succeeds from Australia and installs Twiggy, Gina or Clive as President and commander in chief of the Western Oceania Mining Corporation.
Becomes the Dubai of the South and starts their own sporting leagues and national competition with 6 teams in greater Perth and more scattered throughout the great mining nation.
Fulfils their big fish in small pond mentality and general sense of self importance.

Years later Broome becomes a wealthy club because of it's great standard of living, and lack of competition in the area. They start complaining about the travel, being so far from where the competition was formed and cultivated in it's infancy, and the fact that they have to play all their Grand Finals at Optus Stadium because it is the only fit stadium to hold such a momentous occasion annually.
Other team's who feel similarly slighted start following this lead and join the growing Anti-Perth sentiment in despair.
Someone starts a Western Oceania Big Footy.
Perth-Bias thread is started for people to vent their collective frustrations.

This musta sounded funnier in your head than it appeared on paper. No other explanation.

 

[Humblebob]

This musta sounded funnier in your head than it appeared on paper. No other explanation.

I got a kick out of it yeah, that's all that matters in the end.

It's the small things that really make you appreciate life i say.

 

[Underarm]

View attachment 2381763View attachment 2381764
9-5 =4 50%

Why didn't you just cherry pick back to 2007 like you usually do?

Extending to 2000 and not going back to 91 is equally as pointless.

 

[hammer180]

I'm of the firm belief the greatest advantage is the dimensions of the ground you play on.
If you are a Sydney Brisbane geelong port adelaide the advantage of playing home games during the season at their own ground is massive as they know how to play the game on their ground better then anyone else giving them better chances to make finals, they then lose that advantage if they play in the gf as the ground is different strategy so they can't play their same game style.
When wce won the flag Optus stadium was their home ground similar dimensions to the mcg (beating mcg tenant team).
Only dogs have won a gf being a marvel stadium tenant and Saints are the only other to make it and lost twice.
I also think this is why swans have lost so many gfs now as they can't play the ground on gf day.

 

[sr36]

I'm of the firm belief the greatest advantage is the dimensions of the ground you play on.
If you are a Sydney Brisbane geelong port adelaide the advantage of playing home games during the season at their own ground is massive as they know how to play the game on their ground better then anyone else giving them better chances to make finals, they then lose that advantage if they play in the gf as the ground is different strategy so they can't play their same game style.
When wce won the flag Optus stadium was their home ground similar dimensions to the mcg (beating mcg tenant team).
Only dogs have won a gf being a marvel stadium tenant and Saints are the only other to make it and lost twice.
I also think this is why swans have lost so many gfs now as they can't play the ground on gf day.

You'd be surprised how similar the dimensions of the SCG, Gabba and MCG are. MCG is only about 5 metres longer and a couple of metres wider than the other 2. KP is the big outlier as it's 10ms longer and 25 m narrower than the G - as well as not being colse to symmetrical.

 

[Grin]

View attachment 2381763View attachment 2381764
9-5 =4 50%


Just Grin logic.



You were saying.

Nice selective use of time line.
Go back to the start of the AFL 1990
Also if you go with Melbourne based clubs v non malbourne based clabs. The favour is clearly towards the non Melbourne based clubs

Of course you'll predictably argue that 25 years is an adequate sample size.
Ironically, you were arguing about 8 years ago that the sample size of over 25 wasn't large enough to demonstrate the unbearable justice that you've dedicated a large part of your life fighting.

Funny how you use statistics =very selectively to support your case, and completely ignore the ones that undermine your childish victim mentality.

Very ingenuousness

 

[Grin]

Starting to think i have the beginnings of plan:

W.A thumbs their nose at the AFL and the rest of the country and leave.
Succeeds from Australia and installs Twiggy, Gina or Clive as President and commander in chief of the Western Oceania Mining Corporation.
Becomes the Dubai of the South and starts their own sporting leagues and national competition with 6 teams in greater Perth and more scattered throughout the great mining nation.
Fulfils their big fish in small pond mentality and general sense of self importance.

Years later Broome becomes a wealthy club because of it's great standard of living, and lack of competition in the area. They start complaining about the travel, being so far from where the competition was formed and cultivated in it's infancy, and the fact that they have to play all their Grand Finals at Optus Stadium because it is the only fit stadium to hold such a momentous occasion annually.
Other team's who feel similarly slighted start following this lead and join the growing Anti-Perth sentiment in despair.
Someone starts a Western Oceania Big Footy.
Perth-Bias thread is started for people to vent their collective frustrations.

They'll ignore this.
They don't do self awareness.
Too busy whinging about how unfair it all is.

 

[Grin]

This musta sounded funnier in your head than it appeared on paper. No other explanation.

I can think of one.
You're not very self aware?

 

[demondavey]

True. It was our home game but played at a neutral venue.
Just another example of how it's harder for Vic based clubs to make it to a grand final.
Thanks for helping me make my point



So you're saying that non-Vic clubs are advantaged in finals as well as the H&A season? Makes sense. They get the same advantage in finals as they do in the H&A season until they make the Grand Final. When they make the Grand final and play against Vic teams, they win about a 50% of the time (although I do admit that, in your mind, it would only be fair if they won 100%of the time). But again, thanks for helping me make my point

Vic bias?
Myth busted

Neutral venue? It was the MCG. It’s not harder to make the GF when you’re finishing top 2 and getting the first two games at the G if you lose week 1, or then 2 games at the G if you win week 1.

Couple that with a run into finals that’s gifted and you’re expecting equality on GF day against a travelling team that hardly plays at the G?

Whilst those years I listed showed non vic sides in GF, how many did they win? Only 2.

 

[Grin]

Neutral venue? It was the MCG. It’s not harder to make the GF when you’re finishing top 2 and getting the first two games at the G if you lose week 1, or then 2 games at the G if you win week 1.

Couple that with a run into finals that’s gifted and you’re expecting equality on GF day against a travelling team that hardly plays at the G?

Whilst those years I listed showed non vic sides in GF, how many did they win? Only 2.

Yep that's right. We had the home ground advantage for our home game. It was also easier for Collingwood because it was their home ground. So it wasn't a neutral game, both clubs had the home ground advantage. Am I doing it right?

 

[kranky al]

Nice selective use of time line.
Go back to the start of the AFL 1990
Also if you go with Melbourne based clubs v non malbourne based clabs. The favour is clearly towards the non Melbourne based clubs

Of course you'll predictably argue that 25 years is an adequate sample size.
Ironically, you were arguing about 8 years ago that the sample size of over 25 wasn't large enough to demonstrate the unbearable justice that you've dedicated a large part of your life fighting.

Funny how you use statistics =very selectively to support your case, and completely ignore the ones that undermine your childish victim mentality.

Very ingenuousness

No I don’t.

doppleganger is the one that insists the timeline we should use is 2000 on.


Argue with him

hey droopygurgler.

Please explain to young Grinothy why the only stats we should be using are post 2000.

 

[kranky al]

Why didn't you just cherry pick back to 2007 like you usually do?

Extending to 2000 and not going back to 91 is equally as pointless.

Ahem

Ask drivelgooner

He’s the one who insists on 2000 on


doppleganger

 

[Carringbush2010]

What a intellectually bereft response. You keep saying nothing will change, and when you are presented with quantifiable evidence that things can and have changed, you say nothing will change. Do better.

No no, what I've CLEARLY stated repeatedly is that the vic centrism won't change UNLESS the market changes i:e another market becomes bigger than the vic one.

I've acknowledged that things have changes, heck it will change more, and more again, again what you all complain about IS the bias / centrism.

When I keep telling you ^that^ won't change UNLESS the market changes i:e another market becomes bigger than the vic one.

capiche?

This is not a criticism, it's an observation.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It is not a club competition, the VFL made that very clear when they would not accept clubs into their expanded league.
All AFL teams are now franchises, you can think your members have voting rights and could vote the boot studder in as president but the reality is you cannot.
Big business run by big businessman is the AFL now. The members are more sponsors now than members and have less say than ever. In fact they have pretty much no say.

Ok then, whatever term you wanna use it is NOT State of Origin, it is a franchise v franchise competition.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Ok then, whatever term you wanna use it is NOT State of Origin, it is a franchise v franchise competition.

It seems to upset a lot of them when we bring this up.
I don't know any Vics who think they beat WA when the beat Freo or WC.

They can't get it into their heads, that we don't care that much about them, it's just another team to beat.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Ok then, whatever term you wanna use it is NOT State of Origin, it is a franchise v franchise competition.

I don't see us as WA in the comp, but I also don't see Collingwood or any other Vic club as a little state league club which they once were anymore either. I see them all as huge businesses.
So yes you are spot on, it's a franchise comp.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

It seems to upset a lot of them when we bring this up.
I don't know any Vics who think they beat WA when the beat Freo or WC.

They can't get it into their heads, that we don't care that much about them, it's just another team to beat.

Kind of the same feeling here, maybe for others it might be but care factor of Vic clubs in WA is one of the lowest percentages of football supporters there could be.
I didn't get anymore enjoyment beating you guys in a GF than I did Geelong or Sydney.

 

[Underarm]

Ahem

Ask drivelgooner

He’s the one who insists on 2000 on


doppleganger

Grin mentioned the stat, not DoppleGanger. You are aware they're different people right?

And all this would be avoided if you never cherry picked stats in the first place.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Kind of the same feeling here, maybe for others it might be but care factor of Vic clubs in WA is one of the lowest percentages of football supporters there could be.
I didn't get anymore enjoyment beating you guys in a GF than I did Geelong or Sydney.

There are posters in this thread saying all they want is a non-Vic beating a Vic.

Have a look at most of the arguments, clubs like North and Bulldogs, get hardly anything given to them except money, yet nearly every non-Vic poster in here lumps all Vics in the same basket.

Over here WC are not a big club, I know it upsets a lot of people, but no-one over here gives much a rats about them.
And the only reason I bring up WC is because of how big they are over there and a lot of WC supporters want to keep reminding us about how much money they have and how big they are.
Here all they are is another North Melbourne, no-one wants to go see them.

 

[demondavey]

There are posters in this thread saying all they want is a non-Vic beating a Vic.

Have a look at most of the arguments, clubs like North and Bulldogs, get hardly anything given to them except money, yet nearly every non-Vic poster in here lumps all Vics in the same basket.

Over here WC are not a big club, I know it upsets a lot of people, but no-one over here gives much a rats about them.
And the only reason I bring up WC is because of how big they are over there and a lot of WC supporters want to keep reminding us about how much money they have and how big they are.
Here all they are is another North Melbourne, no-one wants to go see them.

All the more reason why 2018 was the best GF to watch

 

[greatwhiteshark]

There are posters in this thread saying all they want is a non-Vic beating a Vic.

Have a look at most of the arguments, clubs like North and Bulldogs, get hardly anything given to them except money, yet nearly every non-Vic poster in here lumps all Vics in the same basket.

Over here WC are not a big club, I know it upsets a lot of people, but no-one over here gives much a rats about them.
And the only reason I bring up WC is because of how big they are over there and a lot of WC supporters want to keep reminding us about how much money they have and how big they are.
Here all they are is another North Melbourne, no-one wants to go see them.

Agree with all of that. But it works both ways doesn't it?
Vic clubs come to Perth and there few thousand supporters turn up and the same with West Coast over in victoria. Fans do seem to multiply a little when sides are up and about though.
Vic teams have the history of support over 100 years so they have support nationally as you know. But really it is insignificant in numbers to matter outside of their home state.

As for the Eagles you are correct at the minute, but that does not apply when they are one of the top teams. They are last at the minute and they are bloody useless and hence even the pies played them at marvel this year. But put them up the top and the game is at the G. Unless the Pies are bottom which is rare.

I went to a Sydney Eagles game at the SCG in 06 and could not believe the amount of support the Eagles had there, I really think where you are on the ladder changes how you are thought of outside of your home state.

The Pies are a great example of this, many simply don't like the Pies but I can tell you most will say they play a great brand that they enjoy watching. So it's not always as it seems.

 

[kranky al]

Grin mentioned the stat, not DoppleGanger. You are aware they're different people right?

And all this would be avoided if you never cherry picked stats in the first place.

The last five or so pages of discussion has been about 2000 on.

Doppelgänger does have a point that after 2000 ground rationalisation changed the afl.

I’m happy to go back and look at it since 86 if you think it will help - however you also have to look at how many games teams played at the mcg - 1992 and 1994 west coast and geelong played a similar amount of games there - WC 3 geelong 5 in 92 and WC 5 geelong 4 in 94.


A far more substantive statistic is games played at the grand final venue versus who wins which is skewed hugely in favour of the teams that play more games at the MCG.

 

[Underarm]

The last five or so pages of discussion has been about 2000 on.

Doppelgänger does have a point that after 2000 ground rationalisation changed the afl.

That had nothing to do with the point Grin was making about the ledger being pretty much even.

I’m happy to go back and look at it since 86 if you think it will help - however you also have to look at how many games teams played at the mcg - 1992 and 1994 west coast and geelong played a similar amount of games there - WC 3 geelong 5 in 92 and WC 5 geelong 4 in 94.

Yes, when there is only 40 data points, it's best to use all of them.

And the amount of games Geelong played in those seasons shouldn't matter right? Because you believe Travel and local crowd is the biggest factor on GF day?

 

[Carringbush2010]

This musta sounded funnier in your head than it appeared on paper. No other explanation.

Nup.

Was definitely funny

 

[doppleganger]

No I don’t.

doppleganger is the one that insists the timeline we should use is 2000 on.

Argue with him

hey droopygurgler.

Please explain to young Grinothy why the only stats we should be using are post 2000.

21st century is a nice clean start, and that is when Marvel was operational.

The league was completely different back in 1992 when Pies played at VicPark, Dogs at Whitten Oval, Saints Moorabbin, Hawks at Waverley, Blues at Princes Park and Fitzroy were still around.

21st century is when AFL had completed ground rationalisation in Melbourne, and the Melbourne teams lost home ground advantage.