First side to 17 premierships?

[maskmcgee]

Wrong. The only club to cop a salary cap-related punishment in 1995 was the Swans for mishandling paperwork around Plugger's contract.

And our big punishment in 2012 was for offences occurring between 1998-2001.

No tainted flags here!

And our salary cap fine was for 1992 and 1994, not 1993.

 

[demondavey]

It might be a long shot for Hawthorn to win 4 in front of a developing Carlton and Essendon, but with how hard it is to win them, I am inclined to lean towards the Hawks because of their recent history but Essendon are developing nicely, and I think they could get one in 2-3 years, maybe at our expense, but there's a lot of competition.

Safe tip - Bombers
Taking a risk - Hawks

I think it's harder to put a timeframe on Collingwood & Carlton, I think Collingwood might do a WB or Richmond and steal one in 2019 if they can tweak some elements of their list, maybe 2018. Carlton look to be a few years off yet but BB has the ship in the right direction.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

And our salary cap fine was for 1992 and 1994, not 1993.

Might be replying to the wrong guy? Never mentioned Essendon.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

And our salary cap fine was for 1992 and 1994, not 1993.

In 1996, Essendon were fined a record $638,250 ($250,000 in back tax and penalties, $112,000 for draft tampering and $276,250 for breaching the salary cap regulations), forfeited their first, second and third round picks in the National Draft and were excluded from the 1997 rookie and pre-season drafts after a joint Australian Tax Office and AFL investigation found that they had committed serious and systematic breaches of the salary cap regulations totalling $514,500 between 1991 and 1996, including $110,000 in 1993 when Essendon won the premiership

 

[Linda Lovelace]

If it had any real logical historical relevance, it would be an intriguing question. But a bit of historical context puts it in the 'who gives a s**t?' basket:

Hawthorn has the been the best team in the competition since it was actually in the competition, whether you count that competition as VFL/AFL or just the actual national competition AFL we have today. It has won 13 premierships to Carlton and Melbourne's 11 and Collingwood and Essendon's 10. Yep, that's right kids, since Hawthorn has been in the competition, the Dees have won more flags than Collingwood and Essendon and they haven't won a flag in 54 years. And in the last 50 years Hawthorn has dominated. That's why I hate them.

Counting premierships from the early days of the VFL when it was a state competition that competed against another state competition or the war years as being relevant to the modern AFL is just kind of ridiculous. Check out Essendon's 1924 premiership - it won a round robin on percentage in a 9 team competition and then lost what amounted to the actual state grand final against the VFA's Footscray (cue 'fixed match' whining with no evidence). Boy, what a historical achievement.

And seeing as there is no logical reason to not count VFA premierships prior to the VFL split (as all foundation VFL clubs competed in the VFA just the year prior) then the actual premiership tally is Carlton 22, Essendon 20, Geelong 19.

For me, I count Collingwood's two AFL premierships as anything I would give a s**t about, as they both happened in the AFL, not the VFL, and when I was alive.

 

[Jesse Custer]

Carlton fans banging on about Essendon salary cap breaches? Like they can even open their mouth to say anything about the topic....

 

[Franc de Borges]

Genuinely think it'll be Carlton. Don't see Essendon being quite good enough to win one in the next couple of years with GWS around, though they'll definitely be the best of these sides this season.

If the real question is: 'which is the greatest club in the league?' then let's cut the s**t and admit that it's Hawthorn, despite being a few behind.

 

[Beerfish]

Carlton fans banging on about Essendon salary cap breaches? Like they can even open their mouth to say anything about the topic....

Now come on mate Carlton were incredibly hard done by and everyone should pity them because, well it's just not fair.

Tanks.

 

[JVseven]

Carlton.


Jokes.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Carlton fans banging on about Essendon salary cap breaches? Like they can even open their mouth to say anything about the topic....

The topic is actually Essendons illegitimate flags, not salary cap breaches specifically

 

[DEVO]

correct and is currently as of 1996 it is called the VFL

Well, the WA education system is pretty ****ed. The words used are all English, but they are arranged is way that is all Greek to me.

As for the question, I'm tipping Essendon. Unfortunately. Although I doubt it will be anytime within the next 5-10 years.
Collingwood will not a win a thing while McGuire and Buckley are in charge.
Carlton are the new Richmond and are at least 30 years away from any success.
Hawthorn maybe a chance but are probably too far behind.

 

[Beerfish]

The topic is actually Essendons illegitimate flags, not salary cap breaches specifically

No the topic is actually 'first side to 17 premierships' not let's have a pointless sook about whose flags should be counted or not. The history books say we have 16 flags. That aint going to change no matter how much collective sooking goes on.

 

[Jesse Custer]

The topic is actually Essendons illegitimate flags, not salary cap breaches specifically

The topic is actually "first side to 17 premierships?"

If you're so concerned about it, start a thread. But unfortunately nothing will ever be done about your concern. Move on.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

No the topic is actually 'first side to 17 premierships' not let's have a pointless sook about whose flags should be counted or not. The history books say we have 16 flags. That aint going to change no matter how much collective sooking goes on.

All I did was correct a mistaken dons fan who thought you didn't cheat to win the flag in 93. Hell my team wasn't hard done by we were cheating that year too

 

[kranky al]

Hawthorn are perhaps the biggest example of a "winning culture" in all of professional Australian sport so I feel inclined to back them. Crazy to think in 1970, Collingwood had 13 premierships, Melbourne had 12 premierships and to a lesser extent Richmond had 7 premierships and Hawthorn had won just one premiership. In 2017, they've overtaken Melbourne (stuck on 12), Richmond (11) and are approaching Collingwood (15) and have 13 premierships themselves.

Can they win four premierships before Carlton/Essendon win one though? Essendon will win a 17th flag before Carlton and Collingwood, not sure about Hawthorn though.

Port?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Port adelaide have 35 if as you are including state premierships...

Sweet then we have 20 and win the poll and the internet

 

[Jobe Watson]

This question will be answered in just under 10 month's time when Dyson Heppell holds the 2018 Premiership cup aloft.

 

[Lsta062]

Thought I'd get a post in before the inevitable Richmond posters melt down.

Why would we melt? We are on 11 and it would be difficult to win 6 before one of Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood get to 17.

 

[Lsta062]

Is suggesting the separation of state leagues and the national league nonsensical is it? I'll leave it at that.

There is one thing that some of you supporters of non-Victorian clubs need to understand - your teams joined the VFL, which was then renamed "AFL" at the beginning of the 90s to recognise the expansion of the league beyond Victoria. It isn't a breakaway league that started in the 90s.

Therefore, Port Adelaide's flags prior to joining the AFL does not count since they were not won in this league whereas the Victorian sides' flags in the VFL era does since it is still the same league today as the one started in 1897. If this was a breakaway league then the flags won in the VFL era wouldn't count, but that is not the case.

 

[footyfan1978]

We will probably get to 19 and increase the gap by end of next decade to the chasing group. Next decade going to be a big one for my club, I sense.

I remember when I first stated following footy we were on 11 with Essendon and Melbourne on 12 and Collingwood 13. There was a time Fitzroy had the most premierships in the league in early decades of the league.

 

[The_Eagles]

Genuinely think it'll be Carlton. Don't see Essendon being quite good enough to win one in the next couple of years with GWS around, though they'll definitely be the best of these sides this season.

If the real question is: 'which is the greatest club in the league?' then let's cut the s**t and admit that it's Hawthorn, despite being a few behind.

Yeah gun to head or explaining to an American, Hawthorn have to be the greatest for mine.
Best premiership strike rate
Most AFL cups (5)
Top 3 player of all time
Probably best All Time 22
Greatest Coach (zoning changed the game in 2008)
Dynasties, eras and envy

 

[LB#16]

It might be a long shot for Hawthorn to win 4 in front of a developing Carlton and Essendon, but with how hard it is to win them, I am inclined to lean towards the Hawks because of their recent history but Essendon are developing nicely, and I think they could get one in 2-3 years, maybe at our expense, but there's a lot of competition.

Safe tip - Bombers
Taking a risk - Hawks

I think it's harder to put a timeframe on Collingwood & Carlton, I think Collingwood might do a WB or Richmond and steal one in 2019 if they can tweak some elements of their list, maybe 2018. Carlton look to be a few years off yet but BB has the ship in the right direction.

Dogs had a proper rebuild and were led by a new coach who was an assistant under Clarkson at Hawthorn when they won.
Richmond had made finals for multiple years and had the side to win finals but needed to get it right in between the ears, which it seems they did. Not to mention having a star like Martin who had a massive improvement in his game.

Collingwood has the same old coach who took them from a flag to entrenched in the bottom ten. They have not played finals since 2013. I don't see how they could link in with what these two other sides have been able to accomplish. They just are not any good.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

For me, I count Collingwood's two AFL premierships as anything I would give a s**t about, as they both happened in the AFL, not the VFL, and when I was alive.

Whats the relevance of your date of birth to the argument?

 

[kranky al]

You would have to think hawthorn

They have the most on five - and have a great operating ethos

 

[Kwality]

As in the title.

The only real contenders are:
Essendon and Carlton - 16 premierships
Collingwood - 15 Premierships
Hawthorn - 13 Premierships

Can Essendon or Carlton win one before Collingwood wins two or Hawthorn wins 4?

Port have done it.