Can GC turn this around?

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think people look too far into that. Surely privately owned basketball and soccer franchises have no relevance to an AFL club?

If you imagined Gold Coast Suns were a private franchise that paid, say, $20M licence fee and only received the base distribution, it would probably have accumulated losses of well over $100M already.

For the AFL it is just a redistribution of revenues that ultimately just means (on average) players and coaches earn slightly less money than they otherwise would have with 1 less team.

The AFL can do this for decades. The suns could be terrible for another 5 years and when they eventually come good those that stuck with them will be hard core fans with the scars to prove it as they casuals start showing up again.

Exactly I really can’t get my head around why people care about the money. Do they really care that the salary cap isn’t $1mil higher or that the coaches get paid less? Because that’s exactly where that money would be going.

 

[Fat Pizza]

As a Suns fan, I can't wait for the season to start. Our list is united & determined to improve. The same with the coaching staff. We'll be more competitive than most of you think.

 

[Sprout]

I recall the stadium being two thirds full during the latter stages of McKenna’s tenure before everything turned to shit. The fans will return. They just need a competitive team to cheer on.

Need to grit their teeth and maintain some pride in the jumper over the next couple of years.

 

[StevoJenkins]

As already mentioned in regards to the Suns:

- Merging them would be stupid
- Moving them would be stupid
- The AFL won't get rid of them, as the Suns are probably part of an expansion across the country over the next 50 or so years
- They make the AFL too much money to get rid of the Suns
- They're a new team that got brought out too quickly/too soon and will take time to develop properly
- AFL is growing in Queensland, it'll just take time. Something which people can't understand for some reason

New stuff that I think should be mentioned:

- Queensland isn't that much of a Rugby state any more. It's still got a considerably large following, but I've yet to meet someone who genuinely supports the sport outside of State of Origin (which most people follow because it's against NSW)
- Queensland has a variety of growing sports around the state (Soccer, Cricket, Car racing, AFL, Tennis, etc.) that contribute to why certain sports/teams aren't doing as well as expected supporter-wise
- It's kind of hard to grow a team when teams like Adelaide and St. Kilda are outright stating that they will take your new drafted players at the end of their initial contracts
- It's kind of hard to grow a team when the heads of other teams make fun of said team.
- Richmond fans who make fun of the Suns because of their current position do not know much about their club
- The Suns will be better this year as they aren't going to be traveling as much as they did last year. Constant travel takes it's toll on the bodies of players, hence why there aren't many teams that head to WA twice outside of the finals


If the Suns keep improving as they are they should turn out fine in time.

Edit: It's also worth noting that the poll above is extremely biased as the OP doesn't mention what constitutes as "successful" to them, nor do they provide more than one positive possible response, as "They will survive for years but will rarely make the finals", can be easily taken as a negative response.

 

[Toump Ass]

A new revitalised image, new jumpers new logo.

Why stop there? Let's give them a new list via significant draft handouts and a new location too.

 

[Toump Ass]

Also LOL Tasmania aren't getting a team, there's no money there.

 

[Socrates2]

As already mentioned in regards to the Suns:

- Merging them would be stupid
- Moving them would be stupid
- The AFL won't get rid of them, as the Suns are probably part of an expansion across the country over the next 50 or so years
- They make the AFL too much money to get rid of the Suns
- They're a new team that got brought out too quickly/too soon and will take time to develop properly
- AFL is growing in Queensland, it'll just take time. Something which people can't understand for some reason

New stuff that I think should be mentioned:

- Queensland isn't that much of a Rugby state any more. It's still got a considerably large following, but I've yet to meet someone who genuinely supports the sport outside of State of Origin (which most people follow because it's against NSW)
- Queensland has a variety of growing sports around the state (Soccer, Cricket, Car racing, AFL, Tennis, etc.) that contribute to why certain sports/teams aren't doing as well as expected supporter-wise
- It's kind of hard to grow a team when teams like Adelaide and St. Kilda are outright stating that they will take your new drafted players at the end of their initial contracts
- It's kind of hard to grow a team when the heads of other teams make fun of said team.
- Richmond fans who make fun of the Suns because of their current position do not know much about their club
- The Suns will be better this year as they aren't going to be traveling as much as they did last year. Constant travel takes it's toll on the bodies of players, hence why there aren't many teams that head to WA twice outside of the finals


If the Suns keep improving as they are they should turn out fine in time.

Edit: It's also worth noting that the poll above is extremely biased as the OP doesn't mention what constitutes as "successful" to them, nor do they provide more than one positive possible response, as "They will survive for years but will rarely make the finals", can be easily taken as a negative response.

"They make the AFL too much money to get rid of the Suns" - I would argue that the GC club/franchise could make more money in another location .If it's just about tv rights ,you could play in Darwin or China and get the same money back.

"Richmond fans who make fun of the Suns because of their current position do not know much about their club"
I know exactly what happened at our club, that's my point really, Richmond were a chance to fold, even though we have a massive supporter base and long history. So you have to scratch your head when Gold Coast can be a basket case yet be propped up with other clubs money for years on end with no results. Also both the captains left, what does that say? I'm thinking relocation, it happens in the US all the time, It could also rotate eg Darwin for 5 years, Tasmania for 5 years, back to Gold Coast for 5 years.The team could be called the Australian Cane Toads.!

 

[Colonial]

It could also rotate eg Darwin for 5 years, Tasmania for 5 years, back to Gold Coast for 5 years.The team could be called the Australian Cane Toads.!

And there you have it folks. [emoji2957]

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

"They make the AFL too much money to get rid of the Suns" - I would argue that the GC club/franchise could make more money in another location .If it's just about tv rights ,you could play in Darwin or China and get the same money back.

"Richmond fans who make fun of the Suns because of their current position do not know much about their club"
I know exactly what happened at our club, that's my point really, Richmond were a chance to fold, even though we have a massive supporter base and long history. So you have to scratch your head when Gold Coast can be a basket case yet be propped up with other clubs money for years on end with no results. Also both the captains left, what does that say? I'm thinking relocation, it happens in the US all the time, It could also rotate eg Darwin for 5 years, Tasmania for 5 years, back to Gold Coast for 5 years.The team could be called the Australian Cane Toads.!

So your position is the Tigers didn't fold, and somehow that's outrageous because the Suns wont fold either?

They've been in the competition 8 years. The recent expansion was always the long game, and the AFL and the clubs have always said it's the long game.

You'll just have to deal with it.

 

[Gavin Excell]

I agree it’s a long term strategy about growing the game in Qld.
However is there any concern about the wretched history of sporting teams from all codes trying to tap the Gold Coast market.

The demographers would say it’s obvious being one of the fastest growing population centres in the country, yet history shows sports competitions have struggled to make an impression on the population

"They make the AFL too much money to get rid of the Suns" - I would argue that the GC club/franchise could make more money in another location .If it's just about tv rights ,you could play in Darwin or China and get the same money back.

"Richmond fans who make fun of the Suns because of their current position do not know much about their club"
I know exactly what happened at our club, that's my point really, Richmond were a chance to fold, even though we have a massive supporter base and long history. So you have to scratch your head when Gold Coast can be a basket case yet be propped up with other clubs money for years on end with no results. Also both the captains left, what does that say? I'm thinking relocation, it happens in the US all the time, It could also rotate eg Darwin for 5 years, Tasmania for 5 years, back to Gold Coast for 5 years.The team could be called the Australian Cane Toads.!

Personally i thought the quote "Queensland isnt much of a rugby league state anymore" to be the most laughable thing ive read for some time

 

[Gavin Excell]

I think people look too far into that. Surely privately owned basketball and soccer franchises have no relevance to an AFL club?

If you imagined Gold Coast Suns were a private franchise that paid, say, $20M licence fee and only received the base distribution, it would probably have accumulated losses of well over $100M already.

For the AFL it is just a redistribution of revenues that ultimately just means (on average) players and coaches earn slightly less money than they otherwise would have with 1 less team.

The AFL can do this for decades. The suns could be terrible for another 5 years and when they eventually come good those that stuck with them will be hard core fans with the scars to prove it as they casuals start showing up again.

The "eventually comes good" is the.thing.
Guess other sports havent had the revenue cover of the AFL and therefore pulled up stumps early.

It does remain though an interesting case study why the region fails to cement a.sports team

 

[Socrates2]

So your position is the Tigers didn't fold, and somehow that's outrageous because the Suns wont fold either?

They've been in the competition 8 years. The recent expansion was always the long game, and the AFL and the clubs have always said it's the long game.

You'll just have to deal with it.

The tigers didn't fold because the tiger supporters donated money without any AFL help. The Suns have no motivation really as they get money win or lose and it's hard to play for the jumper considering all the captain walk outs.It's got no soul if you will and no-one would really care if it was relocated, disbanded or merged.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

The tigers didn't fold because the tiger supporters donated money without any AFL help. The Suns have no motivation really as they get money win or lose and it's hard to play for the jumper considering all the captain walk outs.It's got no soul if you will and no-one would really care if it was relocated, disbanded or merged.

And your point is?

 

[Colonial]

The tigers didn't fold because the tiger supporters donated money without any AFL help. The Suns have no motivation really as they get money win or lose and it's hard to play for the jumper considering all the captain walk outs.It's got no soul if you will and no-one would really care if it was relocated, disbanded or merged.

**** off with that garbage.



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Socrates2]

And your point is?

Spend the money on a more feasable team.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Spend the money on a more feasable team.

The Suns are that team

 

[StevoJenkins]

"They make the AFL too much money to get rid of the Suns" - I would argue that the GC club/franchise could make more money in another location .If it's just about tv rights ,you could play in Darwin or China and get the same money back.

"Richmond fans who make fun of the Suns because of their current position do not know much about their club"
I know exactly what happened at our club, that's my point really, Richmond were a chance to fold, even though we have a massive supporter base and long history. So you have to scratch your head when Gold Coast can be a basket case yet be propped up with other clubs money for years on end with no results. Also both the captains left, what does that say? I'm thinking relocation, it happens in the US all the time, It could also rotate eg Darwin for 5 years, Tasmania for 5 years, back to Gold Coast for 5 years.The team could be called the Australian Cane Toads.!

You clearly didn't read my post fully. One of the points I put into my post was that Gold Coast is clearly part of a plan to spread across Australia/untapped markets in Australia. It's not just TV rights, although it's part of it, it's about waiting around for some time and seeing the results afterwards. As somebody has already posted, the Lions and Suns have resulted in a gain towards the AFL and AFLW. Rotating the club between two different locations as well kind of proves you made this thread to play silly buggers/troll if that's one of the ideas your throwing around.

If Gold Coast is really that bad, why don't we just disband the Lions too? Outside of the three premierships and two additional finals appearances, they haven't done shit. Why don't we get rid of Fremantle? Hasn't won a grand final ever and hasn't made the finals that often. Why don't we get rid of the Bulldogs or North? Relocate them everywhere around the joint!

The tigers didn't fold because the tiger supporters donated money without any AFL help. The Suns have no motivation really as they get money win or lose and it's hard to play for the jumper considering all the captain walk outs.It's got no soul if you will and no-one would really care if it was relocated, disbanded or merged.

This point kind of highlights to stupidity of your posts here. Richmond had existed for decades before they went into the shitter, which is why I have a problem with Richmond fans making fun of the newer clubs as they had the supporters beforehand whilst the Suns, GWS, Brisbane and (to some extent) Sydney do not.

Next I'm going to move onto your original post, because it's full of garbage since you've decided to give me garbage in return.

Since coming into the comp in 2011 the Suns have finished 17th,17th,14th,12th,16th 15th,17th,17th.Last season the two co-captains walked out of the club , they probably left for less money.Two years ago they traded pick 2 for Lachie Weller .No players want to go there apart from players wanting to resurrect their careers.
If any of this happened at any other club (besides GWS), there would be uproar and board challenges and sackings.Gold Coast have very few supporters and they rarely complain.
At the moment, Gold Coast get multiple top ten draft picks every year, these reluctant teenagers then stay a few years ,and then hope to get traded out. Players like Jack Lukosius (pick 2), Izak Rankine (3) and Ben King (6) must have been pissed off they have to go up there.The top draftees deserve better than to be landed at a hopeless club.Is this experiment which has cost tens of millions of dollars really worth it? Gold Coast town is a tourist town and AFL supporters who live there already have a team.What's the point? See Poll above.

1. The Suns placing, I'm going to explain this to you as others have attempted to once again, is irrelevant. They're a fledgling club in a state that isn't a AFL purist state. They started with no culture, not the best coaching and bad administration amongst other issues. Other newer clubs (Brisbane, WA sides, NSW sides) made the right decisions early on. To put it in perspective, the Lions had the old Bears fans to lean on and the Suns have nothing.

2. Yes, they made bad trades, every club has. Congratulations for figuring out that they made a bad trade. They replaced the staff that made that decision since, so I don't know what the problem is in regards to that.

3. "No players want to go there apart from players wanting to resurrect their careers" is a incredibly naive statement to make. Over the past few seasons, Gold Coast have recruited players from other teams "Twos", but they are players who other clubs have looked at as well. These are players who have played games over 1-3 year periods, these are players who still received contracts at their previous clubs in most cases. What is a dead career to you? Somebody who isn't in the best 22? Somebody who gets 14+ games over two seasons? My definition of a dead career is when you're taken off an AFL list and don't have the drive to make it back. That's a dead career. These guys want more games, and as a starting point to rebuild the team, that's what the Suns need. Recruiting mid-tier players in early and building a culture around them with their existing players is a sound strategy when you want to improve the club.

4. People did get fired, sacked, replaced, etc. Once again, you haven't probably been paying attention which is part of the problem. Unless you're a troll, which would explain a lot.

5. Gold Coast does get multiple high end draft picks every year, they do this because they're trying to build a team. What happens is, is that multiple figures from other clubs in the AFL try to grab their new draft picks as soon as they join the bloody team (which the problems of this between Victoria and the North have been well documented), which makes it impossible to build a team. Maybe one day Queensland will have more quality natives available to draft, but in a Victorian-centric sport that's not going to happen any time soon, which is kind of the point of putting the Suns on the Gold Coast. It's to grow the footy crowd in Queensland.

6. How the hell do you know that their current newly drafted players want to leave? Are you a mind reader? That was a rhetorical question, because obviously the answer is no. You don't know the thoughts in the heads of players, so don't claim you do.

7. Saying Gold Coast is a hopeless club is like saying a bar of steel is broken because it is bent. Put some time and effort into smithing the bar and hammering it, make sure you have a good smith too and whatever else you have to do, and it'll be fine again. What the Suns need is time. Calling them hopeless when they've had to build from scratch after the AFL botched their introduction is incredibly one-sided.

8. "See the poll above, the poll that is full of people having to pick between the one positive response and the three negative! Other peoples opinions now, without patiently waiting as Queenslands footy crowd grows or the Suns finally do a proper club build, totally validate my pointzzzz!!!!"

In case you couldn't tell above, I'm mocking you. Your poll doesn't mean shit and, as many have pointed out to you but you seem to ignore them/ignore the concept of things taking time, that's pretty much it from me

 

[Socrates2]

You clearly didn't read my post fully. One of the points I put into my post was that Gold Coast is clearly part of a plan to spread across Australia/untapped markets in Australia. It's not just TV rights, although it's part of it, it's about waiting around for some time and seeing the results afterwards. As somebody has already posted, the Lions and Suns have resulted in a gain towards the AFL and AFLW. Rotating the club between two different locations as well kind of proves you made this thread to play silly buggers/troll if that's one of the ideas your throwing around.

If Gold Coast is really that bad, why don't we just disband the Lions too? Outside of the three premierships and two additional finals appearances, they haven't done shit. Why don't we get rid of Fremantle? Hasn't won a grand final ever and hasn't made the finals that often. Why don't we get rid of the Bulldogs or North? Relocate them everywhere around the joint!



This point kind of highlights to stupidity of your posts here. Richmond had existed for decades before they went into the shitter, which is why I have a problem with Richmond fans making fun of the newer clubs as they had the supporters beforehand whilst the Suns, GWS, Brisbane and (to some extent) Sydney do not.

Next I'm going to move onto your original post, because it's full of garbage since you've decided to give me garbage in return.



1. The Suns placing, I'm going to explain this to you as others have attempted to once again, is irrelevant. They're a fledgling club in a state that isn't a AFL purist state. They started with no culture, not the best coaching and bad administration amongst other issues. Other newer clubs (Brisbane, WA sides, NSW sides) made the right decisions early on. To put it in perspective, the Lions had the old Bears fans to lean on and the Suns have nothing.

2. Yes, they made bad trades, every club has. Congratulations for figuring out that they made a bad trade. They replaced the staff that made that decision since, so I don't know what the problem is in regards to that.

3. "No players want to go there apart from players wanting to resurrect their careers" is a incredibly naive statement to make. Over the past few seasons, Gold Coast have recruited players from other teams "Twos", but they are players who other clubs have looked at as well. These are players who have played games over 1-3 year periods, these are players who still received contracts at their previous clubs in most cases. What is a dead career to you? Somebody who isn't in the best 22? Somebody who gets 14+ games over two seasons? My definition of a dead career is when you're taken off an AFL list and don't have the drive to make it back. That's a dead career. These guys want more games, and as a starting point to rebuild the team, that's what the Suns need. Recruiting mid-tier players in early and building a culture around them with their existing players is a sound strategy when you want to improve the club.

4. People did get fired, sacked, replaced, etc. Once again, you haven't probably been paying attention which is part of the problem. Unless you're a troll, which would explain a lot.

5. Gold Coast does get multiple high end draft picks every year, they do this because they're trying to build a team. What happens is, is that multiple figures from other clubs in the AFL try to grab their new draft picks as soon as they join the bloody team (which the problems of this between Victoria and the North have been well documented), which makes it impossible to build a team. Maybe one day Queensland will have more quality natives available to draft, but in a Victorian-centric sport that's not going to happen any time soon, which is kind of the point of putting the Suns on the Gold Coast. It's to grow the footy crowd in Queensland.

6. How the hell do you know that their current newly drafted players want to leave? Are you a mind reader? That was a rhetorical question, because obviously the answer is no. You don't know the thoughts in the heads of players, so don't claim you do.

7. Saying Gold Coast is a hopeless club is like saying a bar of steel is broken because it is bent. Put some time and effort into smithing the bar and hammering it, make sure you have a good smith too and whatever else you have to do, and it'll be fine again. What the Suns need is time. Calling them hopeless when they've had to build from scratch after the AFL botched their introduction is incredibly one-sided.

8. "See the poll above, the poll that is full of people having to pick between the one positive response and the three negative! Other peoples opinions now, without patiently waiting as Queenslands footy crowd grows or the Suns finally do a proper club build, totally validate my pointzzzz!!!!"

In case you couldn't tell above, I'm mocking you. Your poll doesn't mean shit and, as many have pointed out to you but you seem to ignore them/ignore the concept of things taking time, that's pretty much it from me

Fair call Stevo, although I would disagree with a number of your points.You are obviously optimistic and hopeful .I'm more pessimistic because of the following;

1/ You can't retain good players including captains eg May, Lynch, Ablett, Prestia,Caddy,Aaron Hall, Jaeger O'Meara, Adam Saad, Jack Scrimshaw ,Charlie Dixon.
2/ There has been very few good established players come to the club recently.
3/ There's a less than 50% chance your first round draft picks will stay at the club.
4/This means the club will struggle to remain competitive for any significant period of time no matter how much money you throw at it.
5/ Hard to attract staff and specialist coaches ect

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Fair call Stevo, although I would disagree with a number of your points.You are obviously optimistic and hopeful .I'm more pessimistic because of the following;

1/ You can't retain good players including captains eg May, Lynch, Ablett, Prestia,Caddy,Aaron Hall, Jaeger O'Meara, Adam Saad, Jack Scrimshaw ,Charlie Dixon.
2/ There has been very few good established players come to the club recently.
3/ There's a less than 50% chance your first round draft picks will stay at the club.
4/This means the club will struggle to remain competitive for any significant period of time no matter how much money you throw at it.
5/ Hard to attract staff and specialist coaches ect

You're just spewing hate filled nonsense. Clubs have bad times, in these days of equalisation it will turn around.

 

[TigerTime_89]

Gold Coast will improve with time.
Things aren't too bad now.
Some people need patience.

 

[Socrates2]

You're just spewing hate filled nonsense. Clubs have bad times, in these days of equalisation it will turn around.

It's not hate filled nonsense cummo.I am pointing out serious issues with player recruitment and player retention. The competition is too even for this not to have a long term effect.Aren't you gws anyway?

 

[TigerTime_89]

It's not hate filled nonsense cummo.I am pointing out serious issues with player recruitment and player retention. The competition is too even for this not to have a long term effect.Aren't you gws anyway?

Please stop.
Your embarrassing yourself and your fellow fans.

 

[Socrates2]

Please stop.
Your embarrassing yourself and your fellow fans.

Thanks tiger for your input,the poll speaks for itself ,maybe find a thread that doesn't upset you .Are u sure u support Richmond never seen u around before.?

 

[TigerTime_89]

Thanks tiger for your input,the poll speaks for itself ,maybe find a thread that doesn't upset you .Are u sure u support Richmond never seen u around before.?

Yep mate. Have for my entire life.
Agreed, I am going to go to a thread that is worth discussing.

 

[StevoJenkins]

Fair call Stevo, although I would disagree with a number of your points.You are obviously optimistic and hopeful .I'm more pessimistic because of the following;

1/ You can't retain good players including captains eg May, Lynch, Ablett, Prestia,Caddy,Aaron Hall, Jaeger O'Meara, Adam Saad, Jack Scrimshaw ,Charlie Dixon.
2/ There has been very few good established players come to the club recently.
3/ There's a less than 50% chance your first round draft picks will stay at the club.
4/This means the club will struggle to remain competitive for any significant period of time no matter how much money you throw at it.
5/ Hard to attract staff and specialist coaches ect

1. Once again, learn how to read. It says on the side of my profile what team I support. I’m not a Suns supporter, I just don’t like it when somebody talks absolute garbage.

2. So have other new teams. Brisbane lost Buckley, a lot of the finals making Bears side, GWS has lost a lot of players too. Carlton and Sydney have lost some of their best past players too. You’re points are still really stupid as you have no knowledge in the points you are making/claiming.

3. Of course there are very few established players coming to the club, the club is still in its infant stage. Carlton has the same problem currently. Are Carlton a hopeless case that should be dissolved? No, they just need time. Stop trying to make points without knowing or stating why.

4. Yes 50% of draftees stay, much like only 50% of draftees work out after 4 years in the AFL system. Once again, get some context before making a point.

5. Once again, learn to read. In the post your quoting I basically say the team can’t go anywhere if they can’t keep the draftees and then give reasons as to why they don’t stay (they get approached before they even start playing for the club). Learn to read.

6. Seriously, learn to read. Specialist staff aren’t going to go to a club that isn’t doing well. However, as I already said, they can’t get the staff because they can’t build the team, they can’t build the team because their players get poached.

Learn to read my post properly before replying.