List Mgmt. 2019 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals Thread

[Cadsky]

Do Sydney do those?

Menzel

 

[zyzzbruh]

Everyone knew how good Stack was, but his off field problems were an issue. He was often rated as top 10, but at the time that Bennell, et al was hitting the headlines, no recruiters were going to take a chance - not even in the rookie draft. His talent was undeniable, but it was higher risk. Richmond got him at a very low risk as a supplemental player so had minimum investment.

So it was discrimination then? Why should he be rated as a fit based on his personal issues. If he was rated top 10 he would've atleast went top 50 even with issues. He didn't even make the rookie draft ffs. You can't tell me he's not even worth a punt at rookie level. Stacks just an example but i'm talking recruitment in general. Your mihoceks, saads, tippas and gibbons of the world. Trust me, at local /VFL/TAC things bat even deeper than that. I’ve personally seen TAC cup recruiters avoid picking up gun kids in trials for family members, sons of influential clubmen, the son who’s dad donates to the club and bar, stakeholders and kids who have had uncles who have played AFL. Kids that get overlooked because they don't integrate with the club/culture on function nights because of ethnicity etc. Then you get a draft camp where the sole focus is beep test numbers and jumping ability. The most important aspect of our game (skills) is overlooked again and again. Then everyone wonders why we're seeing rubbish footy. You’re getting the rich private school cross country runners who end up buckling when the heat is turned on, instead of the kids who have grinded it out the hard way and put heart and effort into their craft.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

So it was discrimination then? Why should he be rated as a fit based on his personal issues. If he was rated top 10 he would've atleast went top 50 even with issues. He didn't even make the rookie draft ffs. You can't tell me he's not even worth a punt at rookie level. Stacks just an example but i'm talking recruitment in general. Your mihoceks, saads and gibbons of the world. Trust me, at local /VFL/TAC things bat even deeper than that. I’ve personally seen TAC cup recruiters avoid picking up gun kids in trials for family members, sons of influential clubmen, the son who’s dad donates to the club and bar, stakeholders and kids who have had uncles who have played AFL. Kids that get overlooked because they don't integrate with the club/culture on function nights because of ethnicity etc. Then you get a draft camp where the sole focus is beep test numbers and jumping ability. The most important aspect of our game (skills) is overlooked again and again. Then everyone wonders why we're seeing rubbish footy. You’re getting the rich private school cross country runners who end up buckling when the heat is turned on, instead of the kids who have grinded it out the hard way and put heart and effort into their craft.

Thanks for an interesting post and insight into what is presumably a TAC club. Our Club seems to like recruiting pte school boys.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Thanks for an interesting post and insight into what is presumably a TAC club. Our Club seems to like recruiting pte school boys.

I won't give anything else away but you're on the money. It's not a secret that there's a 'boys club' fraternity in football. That's why you have spuds like the silvagnis sitting on an AFL list with silver spoons in their mouths, whilst dual JJ Liston and Morrish medallists are busting their arses wondering what else they need to do.

 

[caesar88]

I've lost faith in the recruiting side of football.

Still can't get over the fact that a bloke like Sydney stack can get overlooked. He's quick and knows how to use the ball. Then you have kids like McInerney who get picked up showing a bit of potential in only a few games, but a longgg way off seeing if that potential can get filled. Watch alot of local footy and there are players out there who are serious ballers. But somehow you get this hierarchy of favoritism where blokes like Kevin Sheehan and Terry Wallace hand pick 'the best of the bunch players to look out for' based on their relations to past AFL players and who knows what else, despite there being kids out there who are ligitimate guns. There a players that win TAC cup LEAGUE bnf's let alone club bnf's who don't get a look, instead some average Xavier private school kid with stringy arms and a bob haircut gets listed as top 20. The amount of politics involved in recruiting is beyond the joke. If a kid who got picked up last minute in the rookie draft is already outperforming the top 5 picks then that clearly shows something is wrong.

Imagine we had used our last 2 picks, even rookie picks to get stack and a Gibbons. We'd actually have a bit of immediate depth. And don't even need hindsight or logic to know that that would've been a good decision. Instead we end up with a few potential skinny kids who probably get delisted after 2 years.

Look you’re dead on the money and I agree with you, but poor example with McInerney. For starters, we don’t even know what he’s like as a footballer yet, but all the early signs indicate he is exactly the type of pure footballer that the comp needs. Classy and composed, plays to attack but keeps it simple.

 

[caesar88]

Repeats what you say a lot too

You need to patent some of these dad jokes Kingy, becoming a bit of a trademark for you

 

[zyzzbruh]

Look you’re dead on the money and I agree with you, but poor example with McInerney. For starters, we don’t even know what he’s like as a footballer yet, but all the early signs indicate he is exactly the type of pure footballer that the comp needs. Classy and composed, plays to attack but keeps it simple.

I do agree re mcinerney, if anything he was very unknown and doesn't fit that typical rich kid mould. Just used him as an example when comparing to stack, that there are ready made gun footballers out there being overlooked for those who havn't really shown much. Goes from 1 extreme to another, some kids bust their arse to get picked, where as the other only gets a few games of TAC cup footy and gets picked.

 

[Trevor Smith]

Duran Tucker could become a viable prospect in a couple of years time, He was very good at juniors ,good skills
very good over head mark decent speed and reads the play well. From the H.B.L Lions in the S.W.F.L.
Rookie list as he’s been out nearly all last season with an ACL.

 

[caesar88]

I do agree re mcinerney, if anything he was very unknown and doesn't fit that typical rich kid mould. Just used him as an example when comparing to stack, that there are ready made gun footballers out there being overlooked for those who havn't really shown much. Goes from 1 extreme to another, some kids bust their arse to get picked, where as the other only gets a few games of TAC cup footy and gets picked.

Yep you're not wrong at all. I can't say I know much about the draft because I didn't actually pay attention to the drafts prior to 2017, but in the two I've followed since, I've been less drawn to those that are thriving and dominating as teenagers and instead notice more those types that I think will translate that into success at the highest level. Things like foot skills and contested marking are simply too hard to judge at TAC level, because they're teenagers. It's a lower level and there's no way of telling how those attributes will hold up. So it's better to look for players who just show good traits that will hold them in good stead as a mature player.

In 2017 for me that was Worpel who wasn't the cleanest nor the fastest, but his attack on the footy was unmatched and he willed himself to win the ball in dire situations. Surprise surprise he's doing that now in just his second year. Last year, I specifically cited Stack and Rowbottom as two I liked. Stack because of his all-round versatility (both tough and classy) which means he could fall back on either part of his game to succeed, and Rowbottom because he just never takes his eyes off the footy, hence his ability to win possession when he has no right doing so.

Early call but IMO types like Lukosius are doomed to fall short despite impressing at TAC level. Hope I'm wrong though as he's a great kid I've heard plus the comp needs all the players with good foot skills as it can get!

 

[kickthething]

I've lost faith in the recruiting side of football.

Still can't get over the fact that a bloke like Sydney stack can get overlooked. He's quick and knows how to use the ball. Then you have kids like McInerney who get picked up showing a bit of potential in only a few games, but a longgg way off seeing if that potential can get filled. Watch alot of local footy and there are players out there who are serious ballers. But somehow you get this hierarchy of favoritism where blokes like Kevin Sheehan and Terry Wallace hand pick 'the best of the bunch players to look out for' based on their relations to past AFL players and who knows what else, despite there being kids out there who are ligitimate guns. There a players that win TAC cup LEAGUE bnf's let alone club bnf's who don't get a look, instead some average Xavier private school kid with stringy arms and a bob haircut gets listed as top 20. The amount of politics involved in recruiting is beyond the joke. If a kid who got picked up last minute in the rookie draft is already outperforming the top 5 picks then that clearly shows something is wrong.

Imagine we had used our last 2 picks, even rookie picks to get stack and a Gibbons. We'd actually have a bit of immediate depth. And don't even need hindsight or logic to know that that would've been a good decision. Instead we end up with a few potential skinny kids who probably get delisted after 2 years.

The obvious variable is the environment. Who is to say Stack would of even been given an opportunity by now here, and even if he had, where the hell would we have played him, most likely not somewhere to expose him or let him shine. There are 15 other clubs who overlooked him as a risky investment so we were not alone. Your points are valid, however let’s not go to early on players like Stack as well, even though the signs are very good....we have seen this all too often.

 

[kickthething]

From Vic its Matt Rowell and Noah Anderson. Rowell your JPK type and Anderson your more dynamic flashier type

Rowell in particular, Anderson plays off Rowell quiet a bit, not sold on him. I have seen Rowell about 4 times this year, he is a very strong and smart footballer, and a rare one who tucks his jumper in!

 

[Membling]

Mills and hewett for petracca ?

Would weaken overall

 

[caesar88]

Ideally we want to keep all of our youngsters on the list in-tact. I think we should hold off trading any of them until we know who is actually going to be coaching them in their future. Let's not forget half of these first-to-fourth year players some are mentioning as trade-bait are playing under a regime that, IMO, isn't getting the best out of them.

 

[The King!]

Which players aged 26-30 could we trade on the basis they have value to get something good but we already got the best out of them

 

[caesar88]

Which players aged 26-30 could we trade on the basis they have value to get something good but we already got the best out of them

Parker.

And

Ummmmmm

Parker.

 

[The King!]

Parker.

And

Ummmmmm

Parker.

I could see a desperate side trade for Reid too

That’s presuming you want to keep all the kids etc

Unless we trade our high draft pick of course

I’d rather trade a kid or two than pick 1-3

 

[caesar88]

I could see a desperate side trade for Reid too

That’s presuming you want to keep all the kids etc

Unless we trade our high draft pick of course

I’d rather trade a kid or two than pick 1-3

Like I said though hard to get a read on our kids, look at the team they're playing in.

I wouldn't be against trading Parker to say a Carlton or North, teams that might need another big body in their midfields, in exchange for a high draft pick. Then maybe trade our top draft pick for an actual gun. (If that makes sense, I might've just confused myself.) All won't happen but still this is the hypotheticals thread

 

[Cadsky]

Like I said though hard to get a read on our kids, look at the team they're playing in.

I wouldn't be against trading Parker to say a Carlton or North, teams that might need another big body in their midfields, in exchange for a high draft pick. Then maybe trade our top draft pick for an actual gun. (If that makes sense, I might've just confused myself.) All won't happen but still this is the hypotheticals thread

Haha I know Parker's best mate is a blues supporter and tried to talk him into going there many times to which Luke replies they are the softest team in the comp and he would never play for them. Gold

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I could see a desperate side trade for Reid too

That’s presuming you want to keep all the kids etc

Unless we trade our high draft pick of course

I’d rather trade a kid or two than pick 1-3

Reid is a waste to trade would you rather a pick in the 40's or Reid?

Parker we will probably get a first round pick and then hope he can be as good as Parker.

 

[Cadsky]

Reid is a waste to trade would you rather a pick in the 40's or Reid?

Parker we will probably get a first round pick and then hope he can be as good as Parker.

Cut your losses. 40's still good

 

[Cadsky]

Definitely not trading Parker. Who takes over when JPK is gone? Luke plays a team game. He sacrifices some of his own game because JPK is our #1 mid. Luke will be a better player when he is the #1

 

[caesar88]

Definitely not trading Parker. Who takes over when JPK is gone? Luke plays a team game. He sacrifices some of his own game because JPK is our #1 mid. Luke will be a better player when he is the #1

He is in his prime age now and he’s getting worse.. I just don’t think he’ll cut it as a midfielder anymore. As a forward maybe

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Cut your losses. 40's still good

Maybe if they take all of his salary.

 

[Cadsky]

He is in his prime age now and he’s getting worse.. I just don’t think he’ll cut it as a midfielder anymore. As a forward maybe

Could that be because he is playing a brand of football he doesn't particularly like for a coach that is loosing his players?

 

[Cadsky]

Could you imagine if he was playing for Collingwood or Essendon today? I guarantee you he'd be almost bog playing that brand of footy.