Is the MCG a big advantage on Grand Final Day for Victorians against Interstate Sides? /Are Interstaters advantaged during the home and away season?

[kranky al]

North were an MCG tenant in the 90s.

So your entire position is based on bullshit

LoL.

Adelaide by grand final day had played 8 games on the mcg that year and the year before including 4 finals at the mcg within a year of the grand final.

Luckily for them they got a heap of games and the place wasnt foreign to them

time and time agin, you are proven to talk s**t. And have your "facts" shown up as being flat out wrong.

Would be embarrassing as first rebuttal would put you back in your box.

Mmmhmmmm, i dont remember that north melbourne was an mcg tenant in 1998 - what a gotcha moment.

Ilk be sitting there quoting statistics on home ground advantage and all the thousands of scholarly papers that all say its a massive leg up…… and you will be autofellating yourself because you pulled me up on a fairly insignificant point not realising that you can still win away… its a home ground advantage….not a home ground guarantee……..

In case youve forgotten we beat your mob there despite that advantage in 2018.


You can still beat a tenant - its just a lot harder than at a neutral venue or at your own home ground.

That’s why sports worldwide adjust for it.

 

[kranky al]

I guess Sydney just weren’t up to it in 2016 either, despite finishing higher than the 7th placed Bulldogs. West Coast, Freo, and Sydney again vs the Hawks just not up to it.

West Coast nearly weren’t up to it in 2018, despite being a 5 goal better side than Collingwood. 2019 GWS and 2022 Sydney weren’t up to getting within 13 goals of their opposition despite showing they were much better sides than that for the rest of the year.

Why do people pretend that home advantage disappears on one day of the year, but exists on the other 364 days?

No other league in world sport worth its salt does this.

Because they benefit from it.

Because it means every time their team is in a grand final its a bus ride away.

 

[Duskfire]

They need to rotate it; MCG, Optus, Gabba, whatever the Adelaide one is called. To be a truly national comp, it has to be done. Once every four years a ground hosts it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Dont think you read the post.

If every interstater or even a large percentage boycott the gf.

If we as a collective just refused to watch any gf our team wasnt a part of.

And the ratings then reflect this.


Channel 7 will lose their s**t.

No, you didn't read mine, IF all the non vic clubs and public decide to boycott the GF or even the competition it will go back to the VFL being the largest market accumulator.

Ch7 will lose their sh*t but they're not going to cut their nose to spite their face. They'll still broadcast whatever the biggest gig in the game is. Not up for debate.

This is the most amazing pretzel like justification for cheating ive yet seen

Kudos i guess.

And australian soccer?

Nice conspiracy theory, the inequity IS NOT intended to be vic bias. I've explained ad nauseum that your enemy is the market distribution - not behind your back viccos.

If you're too naive to think that then that's on you.

Australian soccer? Soccer is the >world< game and aus soccer has interest (or more lack of) in all parts of the country. This is not something you can use as a comparison to a domestic sport / competition.

 

[BloodRet]

I mean yeah it is, if it's an interstate team vs a Richmond, Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn, Melbourne, not so much Geelong/Doggies, then it is an advantage yes. But I don't complain about it much because 1. if the interstate team is really the best team in the comp, then they'll win there (brisbane vs collingwood era) and 2. I don't want it to be ever moved from the MCG as it is the only stadium a GF should be played.

 

[FourthTimeAround]

I mean yeah it is, if it's an interstate team vs a Richmond, Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn, Melbourne, not so much Geelong/Doggies, then it is an advantage yes. But I don't complain about it much because 1. if the interstate team is really the best team in the comp, then they'll win there (brisbane vs collingwood era) and 2. I don't want it to be ever moved from the MCG as it is the only stadium a GF should be played.

I never really get that rationale.
If you're the best team, you'll win no matter where.
If you're the best team, you'll win despite getting reamed by the lopsided umpiring that day.
If you're the best team, you'll win despite injuries.

The real answer is, if you're the best team, you'll have a better chance of winning despite those disadvantages, but they should be based on fortune, not structure.
The AFL GF venue is currently an inherent structural advantage to Vic based teams. Anyone who rationally suggests otherwise really is taking the piss.

 

[GROTTO]

Have two grand finals, one home, the other away and remove the bye week before finals.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

I never really get that rationale.
If you're the best team, you'll win no matter where.
If you're the best team, you'll win despite getting reamed by the lopsided umpiring that day.
If you're the best team, you'll win despite injuries.

The real answer is, if you're the best team, you'll have a better chance of winning despite those disadvantages, but they should be based on fortune, not structure.
The AFL GF venue is currently an inherent structural advantage to Vic based teams. Anyone who rationally suggests otherwise really is taking the piss.

Yeah it's illogical

If you're a 2 goal better team, but HGA is worth 2, and you get a reaming from the umps worth 2 or 3, then chances are you wont win.

 

[Soggy2112]

1. if the interstate team is really the best team in the comp, then they'll win there (brisbane vs collingwood era)

Would you not agree though that if two teams are evenly matched, and the home team wins by a goal or two, that the HGA has played a significant role, if not the deciding factor, in the result of the match?

 

[Big Crow]

I never really get that rationale.
If you're the best team, you'll win no matter where.
If you're the best team, you'll win despite getting reamed by the lopsided umpiring that day.
If you're the best team, you'll win despite injuries.

The real answer is, if you're the best team, you'll have a better chance of winning despite those disadvantages, but they should be based on fortune, not structure.
The AFL GF venue is currently an inherent structural advantage to Vic based teams. Anyone who rationally suggests otherwise really is taking the piss.

Exactly this. If you're Vic based then you can be equally as good (or slightly not as good) as your opposition and win, but if you're non-Victorian then you have to be significantly better otherwise better luck next year. No wonder 13 of the last 15 premiers are from the same state.

We play 23 rounds over a 6 month period, for what? The deciding match is hosted at one set of club's home ground/state regardless. Try explaining that to your friends who follow proper professional leagues around the world and see how bizarre they think it is.

The AFL is engineered to achieve certain outcomes, they're getting those outcomes. To think otherwise you are kidding yourself.

 

[GROTTO]

Would you not agree though that if two teams are evenly matched, and the home team wins by a goal or two, that the HGA has played a significant role, if not the deciding factor, in the result of the match?

I think the solution is easy, have one GF at the G and the other at the home ground of the other opponent.

In the event of one win a piece, Whoever has the highest percentage, is the winner.

 

[blue harvest]

Exactly this. If you're Vic based then you can be equally as good (or slightly not as good) as your opposition and win, but if you're non-Victorian then you have to be significantly better otherwise better luck next year. No wonder 13 of the last 15 premiers are from the same state.

We play 23 rounds over a 6 month period, for what? The deciding match is hosted at one set of club's home ground/state regardless. Try explaining that to your friends who follow proper professional leagues around the world and see how bizarre they think it is.

The AFL is engineered to achieve certain outcomes, they're getting those outcomes. To think otherwise you are kidding yourself.

It's now 12 wins to 11 wins in GFs involving Vic v Interstate. Pretty even!

* Correction 10 wins to 9

 

[blue harvest]

Would you not agree though that if two teams are evenly matched, and the home team wins by a goal or two, that the HGA has played a significant role, if not the deciding factor, in the result of the match?

Nope, no such thing as evenly matched - that's just meaningless chatter. 2 teams run out and who ever plays best wins.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Exactly this. If you're Vic based then you can be equally as good (or slightly not as good) as your opposition and win, but if you're non-Victorian then you have to be significantly better otherwise better luck next year. No wonder 13 of the last 15 premiers are from the same state.

We play 23 rounds over a 6 month period, for what? The deciding match is hosted at one set of club's home ground/state regardless. Try explaining that to your friends who follow proper professional leagues around the world and see how bizarre they think it is.

The AFL is engineered to achieve certain outcomes, they're getting those outcomes. To think otherwise you are kidding yourself.

I tried explaining to my friends who follow other professional leagues around the world, do you know what they said/did.

They said: Non-Vic supporters must have screws loose to follow a league like that, that is so stupidly funny, then they all burst out laughing.

 

[Big Crow]

I tried explaining to my friends who follow other professional leagues around the world, do you know what they said/did.

They said: Non-Vic supporters must have screws loose to follow a league like that, that is so stupidly funny, then they all burst out laughing.

Probably correct.

 

[blue harvest]

We play 23 rounds over a 6 month period, for what? The deciding match is hosted at one set of club's home ground/state regardless. Try explaining that to your friends who follow proper professional leagues around the world and see how bizarre they think it is.

Also need to explain to friends the difficulties Australia faces, a large geographic area with small population 90% of whom live on one side of the country and only 1 usable stadium above 60k. It's one of the most supported national comps in the world and one of the longest running, maybe we are doing something right!

* Ask your Irish friends where their footy final is played each year!

 

[Big Crow]

Also need to explain to friends the difficulties Australia faces, a large geographic area with small population 90% of whom live on one side of the country and only 1 usable stadium above 60k. It's one of the most supported national comps in the world and one of the longest running, maybe we are doing something right!

* Ask your Irish friends where their footy final is played each year!

Agree there are challenges. It’s never going to be perfect but it can be better.

And Gaelic Football is a strictly amateur competition, for what it’s worth.

 

[sexyhunk]

has to be rotation, like mcg, scg, optus, etc the game as a whole is more gearing towards TV audience anyway with more and more TV deals. As long as a nice full stadium, fireworks, night time, thats the future

 

[doppleganger]

It's now 12 wins to 11 wins in GFs involving Vic v Interstate. Pretty even!

This is the only relevant stat.

Toss of the coin.

Best team wins, fragile teams get exposed in front of 100k.

 

[Papa G]

This is the only relevant stat.

Toss of the coin.

Best team wins, fragile teams get exposed in front of 100k.

Since the Heartland Royal Commission and Victorian Government Sponsored Coercion and Corruption its been 8-2 with a further 6 All Vic games. The wins by the Vic side over the non vic side have averaged out to 10 goals. The 2 wins by the Non Vic side over the Vic side have averaged out to 7.5 points.

If you're looking a statistics, these stick out like dogs balls.

 

[blue harvest]

Since the Heartland Royal Commission and Victorian Government Sponsored Coercion and Corruption its been 8-2 with a further 6 All Vic games. The wins by the Vic side over the non vic side have averaged out to 10 goals. The 2 wins by the Non Vic side over the Vic side have averaged out to 7.5 points.

If you're looking a statistics, these stick out like dogs balls.

And before that it was 7-2 to the interstaters with 3 further all interstate games when they made up just 40% of the comp!
The only changes to the finals system during this whole period were to the benefit of interstate teams, not Vic teams.

 

[Papa G]

And before that it was 7-2 to the interstaters with 3 further all interstate games when they made up just 40% of the comp!
The only changes to the finals system during this whole period were to the benefit of interstate teams, not Vic teams.

And then the 2007 Heartland Royal Commission began....And everything changed.....

"Demetriou told the ABC the league had been examining this issue for the past few months. “We’ve believed it is a cycle, but history is now starting to go against that belief,” he said, in a startling moment of candour. Sensing growing discontent in the heartland, Demetriou said fans of Victorian clubs might start to think twice about supporting their clubs if non-Victorian sides kept dominating the finals. “Supporters have to believe at the start of a season that their team has a real shot at playing in finals,” he said.

An inquiry, he said, would now be set up by the league to determine how this inequity might be resolved. Quite how the league can legislate to give Victorian teams a better chance at winning is difficult to gauge. But it will be one of Demetriou’s great challenges. For if the AFL loses the confidence of Victorian football fans, and loses the state as its beating heart, then the national game will be in tatters.

I think old Vlad, along with his accomplices in Spring Street, Jolimont and good friend Eddie McGuire would be smashing each other on the back as they have not only met that "challenge", they have exceeded it even beyond their wildest dreams.

 

[RichLeMonde]

And then the 2007 Heartland Royal Commission began....And everything changed.....

"Demetriou told the ABC the league had been examining this issue for the past few months. “We’ve believed it is a cycle, but history is now starting to go against that belief,” he said, in a startling moment of candour. Sensing growing discontent in the heartland, Demetriou said fans of Victorian clubs might start to think twice about supporting their clubs if non-Victorian sides kept dominating the finals. “Supporters have to believe at the start of a season that their team has a real shot at playing in finals,” he said.

An inquiry, he said, would now be set up by the league to determine how this inequity might be resolved. Quite how the league can legislate to give Victorian teams a better chance at winning is difficult to gauge. But it will be one of Demetriou’s great challenges. For if the AFL loses the confidence of Victorian football fans, and loses the state as its beating heart, then the national game will be in tatters.

I think old Vlad, along with his accomplices in Spring Street, Jolimont and good friend Eddie McGuire would be smashing each other on the back as they have not only met that "challenge", they have exceeded it even beyond their wildest dreams.

I think the recent trend is explained mainly by free agency.

It allowed Hawks, Tigers and Cats to top up, because they were seen as destination clubs. It’s really not about the GF location

 

[iameviljez]

Why do people pretend that home advantage disappears on one day of the year, but exists on the other 364 days?

No other league in world sport worth its salt does this.

Exactly this. The cognitive dissonance is deafening.

There is no way we beat Sydney by 81 points if the game is in Sydney. Home ground advantage absolutely exists.

 

[blue harvest]

And then the 2007 Heartland Royal Commission began....And everything changed.....

"Demetriou told the ABC the league had been examining this issue for the past few months. “We’ve believed it is a cycle, but history is now starting to go against that belief,” he said, in a startling moment of candour. Sensing growing discontent in the heartland, Demetriou said fans of Victorian clubs might start to think twice about supporting their clubs if non-Victorian sides kept dominating the finals. “Supporters have to believe at the start of a season that their team has a real shot at playing in finals,” he said.

An inquiry, he said, would now be set up by the league to determine how this inequity might be resolved. Quite how the league can legislate to give Victorian teams a better chance at winning is difficult to gauge. But it will be one of Demetriou’s great challenges. For if the AFL loses the confidence of Victorian football fans, and loses the state as its beating heart, then the national game will be in tatters.

I think old Vlad, along with his accomplices in Spring Street, Jolimont and good friend Eddie McGuire would be smashing each other on the back as they have not only met that "challenge", they have exceeded it even beyond their wildest dreams.

The cycle changed. The Cats and Hawks came good and won 7 of the next 9 flags, nothing to do with the 'royal commission'. Those 2 teams were largely assembled before it.

What are the changes you think they implemented in order to help the Vic sides win more flags?
The only change to the finals system during this period was giving interstate teams more finals in their home state.