Autopsy Round 20, 2025: Positives and Negatives vs Fremantle

[ziad]

Inbred freo ferals who boo'd and abused Harley all game, then doubled down when he went off injured are now having a massive sook because Harley 'shushed' them

they are a truly a special breed

We need to have a mental illness round for them.

 

[ziad]

If you consider+50 pts a flogging we have had 6 this year, plus a couple in the high 40s.

An average lossing margin of 42

I know the last few years have been dire, but I think it has warped some peoples brains to lowering the bar on what is consider a heavy loss

You were not at the SCG massacer it seems.

 

[KERRPOW]

Hough isn't a midfielder. I really reckon we've gone too far the other way robbing an elite lockdown/half back in exchange for a below average midfielder. Not to take anything away from his clamp of Serong, i just think it's a wasted idea. Give that role to a young spud or a developing player and let Hough go back to being an elite stopper.

Apparently hough attended almost 90% CBA's.

Honestly would not have known. Did **** all with it.

Keep in mind i only watched half the game

 

[Bender_]

Apparently hough attended almost 90% CBA's.

Honestly would not have known. Did **** all with it.

Keep in mind i only watched half the game

He was tagging Serong. Seemed to do okay in the first half - neither of them getting many touches. Serong got off the chain in the second though.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Apparently hough attended almost 90% CBA's.

Honestly would not have known. Did **** all with it.

Wasn't he tagging Serong?

 

[triplegee]

Apparently hough attended almost 90% CBA's.

Honestly would not have known. Did **** all with it.

Keep in mind i only watched half the game

He was in there to limit Serong's impact, which he achieved.

 

[KERRPOW]

Lol shows how much i was interested in this game.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Serong, he was tagging Hough

 

[donpyke92]

Houghy was wrapped in a sarong all game, hence not quite the offensive play we like.

 

[Quinz]

In theory this is a good call. The club has been hurting for the best part of 5 years and nobody at any level is going to accept what needs to happen, which is hitting the draft hard and getting those 3-4 first rounders to 50 games in as short a time as possible. We've been trying to walk and chew gum for years and it's gotten us nowhere really. Go all in on one strategy and reading the tea leaves the club wants to go the route you suggest.

Question for you:

Do you want this improvement enough to welcome Clayton Oliver into the fold?

Would you be willing to throw the Oscar Allen compo into the ring to lure Patrick Cripps home for Carlton?

Is a 30 year old ruck worth the Hawks 1st? And if Collingwood say no do you bundle up our second?

We're not extracting a starting midfielder out of another club without there being some serious trade offs, the kind of thing that would make pick 3 for Baker and Owies look tame in comparison. If we want the kind of drastic improvement quality players bring, we need to be prepared to be bend over for the privilege.

Just spitballing but what about Trade pick 1. Take pick 2. Buy into the 2027 draft if we can't turn that into a player and Bring in 1 NGA and Charlie Banfield for the fan service. Get 2 senior players who are top 10 player at the club worthy not Matt Owies level. Back in Allan, Hall, Gross etc to break into the 22.

I'd be looking at all those players. Oliver could come cheaper if the Dees want to get that contract off the books. Cripps if he wants to finish his career in WA. Coniglio from the giants, if they win the flag this year who knows. Mitch Duncan. Any experienced body that can take the hits in the middle and drive good training standards.

 

[Scotland]

I'd be looking at all those players. Oliver could come cheaper if the Dees want to get that contract off the books. Cripps if he wants to finish his career in WA. Coniglio from the giants, if they win the flag this year who knows. Mitch Duncan. Any experienced body that can take the hits in the middle and drive good training standards.

Oliver is in the shop window because of poor behaviour/standards. His last two good years he polled 31 and 25 Brownlow votes. Then 6 and 5 since. Probably won't hit double figures this year. He went from a top 5-10 mid to a top... 20? 30? 50? Duncan is 34 this year and has played 9 games. Surely he retires.

Coniglio or Cripps would be great but the asking price would probably be too high. Cripps has been a machine but I full expect at some point in his career he will just retire overnight. Has carried their midfield for a decade and they still make him play back up ruck from time to time.

If we give up a first round pick (again) for a player older than 26/27 we have rocks in our head.

 

[squashface]

No way Carlton let Cripps go under contract either. Feel like they are us from a few years ago (deluded to the point where they think they are contending for a flag).

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Oliver is in the shop window because of poor behaviour/standards. His last two good years he polled 31 and 25 Brownlow votes. Then 6 and 5 since. Probably won't hit double figures this year. He went from a top 5-10 mid to a top... 20? 30? 50? Duncan is 34 this year and has played 9 games. Surely he retires.

Coniglio or Cripps would be great but the asking price would probably be too high. Cripps has been a machine but I full expect at some point in his career he will just retire overnight. Has carried their midfield for a decade and they still make him play back up ruck from time to time.

If we give up a first round pick (again) for a player older than 26/27 we have rocks in our head.

If we were to get Oliver it wouldn't be by trading a high pick - it would be by taking his salary/contract risk off Melbourne's books.

Don't hate the idea of bringing someone like Oliver over, the move might help him get away from some of his demons (lol) - but would want to be sure we have strong leadership on and off field to manage the risk he brings as a person. Mini would have a view I'm sure as to his suitability.

I'd also want to be sure we were bringing in some other respected leaders - like you said, cogs or cripps would be ideal.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

No way Carlton let Cripps go under contract either. Feel like they are us from a few years ago (deluded to the point where they think they are contending for a flag).

At least our delusion came from winning a flag and a sustained period of success (finals)

 

[Scotland]

Each to their own but I wouldn't touch Oliver.

 

[Goroyals22]

Watch Oliver’s effort with about 90 seconds to go when any score would probably have won Melbourne the game and see why we wouldn’t want him.

 

[Scotland]

At least our delusion came from winning a flag and a sustained period of success (finals)

They're nothing if not consistent.

They thought the Judd/Muprhy/Gibbs team we beat in 2011 was a contender. It wasn't, everyone (else) knew it wasn't. I mean we won 17 games and there was a gap to 3rd and a bigger gap to 1st and 2nd.

They think the Cripps/Curnow/Weitering/McKay team is a contender. It isn't, everyone (else) knows it isn't. The list is totally unbalanced with high priced recruits like Saad and Williams that are just as good as role players in better sides.

They haven't won more than 13 games in a year since that 2011 season. Say what you want about Melbourne, Sydney, Port, WB etc who have underachieved, even Freo and Hawthorn who are way younger than the Blues and they at least put themselves in a position to be in the conversation. It took WC the equivalent of 5 x 15 win seasons in 6 years (2020 pro rata) from 2015-2020 after 17 wins in 2011 and 15 in 2012 to make two GFs and win a flag. The last time they finished in the top 4 after the H&A season was 2000. Bizarre that they think they are so close to a flag.

 

[RookiePick]

• Targeted and traded in AFL quality senior players in the 26years+ category to fill a demographic gap (Hunt, Flynn, Baker, Graham, Owies)

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Yeah look maybe not Flynn - though he was getting games at GWS pre-injury the year we recruited him. He also looks a level above in WAFL. The logic was reasonably sound IMO.

Owies will come good I think - shit year to be a WCE fwrd, and playing both him and Cripps probably doesn't make sense. 33 goals in 2024 and 27 in 2023 says he's AFL quality.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Each to their own but I wouldn't touch Oliver.

Yeah loads of risk that would need to be managed. Could also blow up horrifically.

I guess no risk no reward...

Annoying because Geelong will pick him up for peanuts and get the best out of him. They have the culture and leadership for it too - if only we could retain players aged 30+. We'd need him to move in with Woosh to even stand a chance.

 

[Scotland]

Yeah loads of risk that would need to be managed. Could also blow up horrifically.

I guess no risk no reward...

Annoying because Geelong will pick him up for peanuts and get the best out of him. They have the culture and leadership for it too - if only we could retain players aged 30+. We'd need him to move in with Woosh to even stand a chance.

He would be under pressure at Geelong. They had Jed Bews and Ollie Henry playing in the VFL on the weekend among others. He would slot in with Danger, Holmes, Smith etc. and be expected to perform to a high level.

We would put him in the midfield with some kids and expect him to make us better, then when he didn't he would just stay in the side.

 

[TOA.]

I know its unhelpful but its hard not to lament and be disappointed in the fact this is what we are putting out after being down the bottom for 4 years. The lack of a young midfield core, for a side with so many top picks, is quite simply unacceptable. It was hard to listen to Simmo talk about our lack of midfielders when he was one of the main engineer of this complete mess.

Other comments:

• It was nice to see McCarthy be more of the distributor instead of Duggan. Yeah he made a couple of mistakes but he's 100% better in that role than Duggan.
• Agree with others regarding Hough. We have taken an AA level half back and turned him into a scrapping tagger. I dont like it. At the least he should be a Josh Dunkley
  5

  Josh Dunkley

  Age

  29

  Ht

  191cm

  Wt

  87kg

  Pos.

  Mid

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  21.8

  5star

  K

  10.4

  4star

  HB

  11.3

  5star

  M

  4.3

  4star

  T

  5.8

  5star

  CL

  3.2

  5star

  D

  20.7

  5star

  K

  7.0

  3star

  HB

  13.7

  5star

  M

  2.3

  2star

  T

  5.3

  5star

  CL

  2.7

  4star

  D

  14.2

  4star

  K

  7.2

  3star

  HB

  7.0

  5star

  M

  4.8

  5star

  T

  4.0

  5star

  CL

  1.4

  4star

  type defensive mid who wins the ball himself. If he's just going to tag then get him out of there - complete waste especially given our dearth of AA level players anywhere on the field.
• Maric suprised and showed abit of ticker. He isnt perfect but he has some high end AFL level attributes unlike most of our side.
• It was nice of Kelly to turn up - hopefully that is the norm
• Our ruck situation is almost as depressing as our midfield. How have we got to this? I used to be team flynn but not i'm just thinking Williams at least offers us something different. Flynn tries but he's just not upto the standard. Put another way, BW has attributes like pace and ground ball skills that could trouble other rucks. Flynn is essentially just worse than every other ruck in each facet of the game...
• Felt sorry for Shanahan and Reid. Imagine being on the end of our delivery. I do think Reid is at least worth a good trial down back though (like has been discussed alot before).

 

[Goroyals22]

I know its unhelpful but its hard not to lament and be disappointed in the fact this is what we are putting out after being down the bottom for 4 years. The lack of a young midfield core, for a side with so many top picks, is quite simply unacceptable. It was hard to listen to Simmo talk about our lack of midfielders when he was one of the main engineer of this complete mess.

Other comments:

• It was nice to see McCarthy be more of the distributor instead of Duggan. Yeah he made a couple of mistakes but he's 100% better in that role than Duggan.
• Agree with others regarding Hough. We have taken an AA level half back and turned him into a scrapping tagger. I dont like it. At the least he should be a Josh Dunkley type defensive mid who wins the ball himself. If he's just going to tag then get him out of there - complete waste especially given our dearth of AA level players anywhere on the field.
• Maric suprised and showed abit of ticker. He isnt perfect but he has some high end AFL level attributes unlike most of our side.
• It was nice of Kelly to turn up - hopefully that is the norm
• Our ruck situation is almost as depressing as our midfield. How have we got to this? I used to be team flynn but not i'm just thinking Williams at least offers us something different. Flynn tries but he's just not upto the standard. Put another way, BW has attributes like pace and ground ball skills that could trouble other rucks. Flynn is essentially just worse than every other ruck in each facet of the game...
• Felt sorry for Shanahan and Reid. Imagine being on the end of our delivery. I do think Reid is at least worth a good trial down back though (like has been discussed alot before).

For the record Williams averages 2.7 ground balls gets this year. Flynn 3.3 …. Where is the magical speed Williams has? He is always 2 seconds late at kicks into the forward line, doesn’t chase when the ball hits the ground in there and can’t draw a football to get a possessions..no other club will have him on a list.

Wonder if we should swap McCarthy with Hough the last four weeks. See if he has any inside mid potential and see if we could use his kicks going inside 50.

 

[Scotland]

Duggan is a problem.

We're basically robbing Paul to pay Peter at the minute trying to find his least worst spot. McCarthy and Maric are better at half back, and so is Hough. I'd prefer Ginbey with ball in hand over Duggan even though he got run down twice vs Freo (pan the camera out to NOONE LEADING AT THE BALL). Hough has been good in the middle, but he's still not a great mid. He's still better in the middle than Duggan. Up the ground he panics without time on the ball. Down back he has been passed by better users. Where is his spot? Could he be a forward like Mark Nicoski

Mark Nicoski

Age

42

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

9.0

3star

HB

5.5

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.9

4star

G

0.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.0

1star

? Doesn't seem to have the same intensity but I am running out of ideas.

 

[Scotland]

Tacticians of BigFooty WC board, how are we consistently poor at getting the ball out of our defensive 50 and at the same time opposition teams walk the ball out of our forward 50? What is it that we are doing that make both these things possible?

Centre clearances and soft turnovers (oh we love those) are a different beast. When you are up against Darcy/Jackson (sometimes both), Serong, Brayshaw, Young etc. in the middle with a young midfield cobbled together from whoever is available you are going to lose clearances that lead to quality inside 50s. Same with turnovers, even we look good when the ball is turned over and every defender is forward of the play. We've had a bunch of good passages this year where a final skill error at the end cost us and 3 kicks later it's a shot for goal at the other end. That's footy.

It's the slow kick ins I can't get my head around. If you can hit a 55m dart to a player at pace well done to you but when it's 3 or 4 slow 30-40m kicks and uncontested marks and suddenly the ball is on centre wing what are we doing? And why can't we do it at the other end? We did the same thing under Simmo for years. Even when we were good, we relied on the back 6 being awesome instead of pressuring the ball up the ground. I know coaches these days love to talk about game plans and structures etc. but what are we actually trying to do? I get conceding short wide kicks and making teams kick long from the pockets, and I get trying to hem teams into the front half or towards one side of the ground. I don't get conceding territory to centre wing. Watching our kick ins, we weren't running hard to space and the Freo players were pretty stationary which isn't taxing on them at all. How come we can't manage to at least get out of the 50 and then go long down the line to a contest?