Player Watch #13 Clayton Oliver – UNPRECEDENTED 4 x B&F, 3 x AA, 2 x AFLCA Winner and Premiership Player

[Crusty Demon]

i understand the philosophy behind supporters wanting to trade Oliver. Getting two 1st round picks is enticing when our list is in need of difference. But I'm not convinced we'd get two first round picks. And besides, he's a talented kid. He's still young and has won 2 b&f's under what we think is a horrible coaching team. Imagine what he could do under a Ross Lyon?

I'd be inclined to trade Brayshaw and Harmes before Oliver. We might not get quite as much for them, but it would still free up our inside mid dillema while giving us picks to get in what we need. We've seen lots of quality role players get picked up cheap the last few years. No reason we can't do the same without losing a still very young 2 times b&f winner.

 

[Topkent]

Except every coach says Clayton is the hardest worker at the club and sets the bar for training standards.

Wingard was seemingly the opposite. Didn't train hard enough and needed a change of scenery as he was stinking the place up.

Oliver is where Trac was 2 years ago. Flaws in his game, highly talented, young and sometimes is trying too hard to make it all click.

Trac needed to get super fit. Oliver needs to get his confidence back. I think it's fixable.

Petracca and Oliver couldn't be two more opposite midfielders.

 

[raven echo]

* no to trading him.

 

[Topkent]

Ah yes. Can only trade players who are s**t.

 

[TheBoss]

Oliver has better upside than Brayshaw+picks

No deal!

 

[stEdy]

Petracca and Oliver couldn't be two more opposite midfielders.

In terms of their skillsets, sure. However, in the ways I mentioned I think there are striking similarities.

The other background issue to all of this is our lack of leadership from senior players. Most are out of form and we haven't had a true champion veteran to lead the way for the younger brigade for a while (not sure a slightly cooked Jordan Lewis was this, despite him being good value). Trac, Oliver and Brayshaw have been playing big midfield minutes for years now and have had to work through issues without protection or guidance from really high level senior players. I think 23 year old Oliver would have ironed out more of his kinks in the last 2 years with strong senior players around him. He has to do everything himself.

 

[stEdy]

I'd love to use a 2nd rounder this year on a Bernie Vince or Shaun Higgins style senior player who is tough and can kick a football and can teach some of our younger mids a thing or two

 

[Topkent]

In terms of their skillsets, sure. However, in the ways I mentioned I think there are striking similarities.

The other background issue to all of this is our lack of leadership from senior players. Most are out of form and we haven't had a true champion veteran to lead the way for the younger brigade for a while (not sure a slightly cooked Jordan Lewis was this, despite him being good value). Trac, Oliver and Brayshaw have been playing big midfield minutes for years now and have had to work through issues without protection or guidance from really high level senior players. I think 23 year old Oliver would have ironed out more of his kinks in the last 2 years with strong senior players around him. He has to do everything himself.

You say that but he's had Viney, Jones, Brayshaw and Trac this year to help him and he's roving to the 'best' ruck in the game. If anything he's had it pretty easy. Imagine if he was playing in a midfield where he actually had to do it all alone like Cripps does.

Just cause Oliver was great young doesn't mean he will become amazing.
You can look to Wines and Viney as examples of that.
Petracca can do things with a footy Oliver will never be able to do. Oliver could easily win a Brownlow. Priddis and Mitchell both did it, but he'll never be the best mid at Melbourne.

 

[Topkent]

I'd love to use a 2nd rounder this year on a Bernie Vince or Shaun Higgins style senior player who is tough and can kick a football and can teach some of our younger mids a thing or two

Brodie Smith or Rory Laird from the Crows, crows will be going full rebuild

The dream would be Zac Williams from GWS but we would need to trade a big name

 

[stEdy]

Let's be honest, it's only this year that Trac is being hailed as god like and able to 'do things with a footy' that nobody else can. The previous 3 years Trac couldn't even kick a set shot from 20 metres out. He's 1.5 years older than Oliver as well.

Oliver is being severely discounted around here because of 1 or 2 extremely frustrating habits he has picked up. But over the last 3 years there's not many players in the AFL that have had his influence inside the contest.

Winning clearances and contested ball for fun is no mean feat. Essendon haven't had a good inside mid since Jobe Watson and continually struggle at the pointy end of the year because of it.

Oliver has had a very rapid rise from a porky 17 year old. He's currently going through a dip in form (which coincidentally started after double shoulder reco), I don't think it'll last for that long. Mechanically he's still a good kick, even if he's an awful kick at the moment.

I'm glad we have both of them. Brayshaw i'm not as sure about - not sure if he has the drive of Trac/Clarry to better himself.

Would be keen on Brodie Smith

EDIT: Z Williams is a free agent I believe.

 

[ABray10]

Maybe Oliver can be trained out of a couple of bad habits, which are probably mostly mental in nature. Whether that can happen in the current team setup, or whether he needs fresh coaching and players around him to achieve it is another possibility.

Hard to say what the right call is, potentially the only winner here will be whichever player does get traded out of the dees and gets a fresh start.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

The only possible way he gets traded is if a new coach is appointed who isnt a contested ball pervert like Goody.

Zero chance we trade him while s**t for brains remains senior coach.

 

[schmuttt]

Agree with a lot of our issues but trading Oliver for draft picks would be madness IMO

 

[Topkent]

Let's be honest, it's only this year that Trac is being hailed as god like and able to 'do things with a footy' that nobody else can. The previous 3 years Trac couldn't even kick a set shot from 20 metres out. He's 1.5 years older than Oliver as well.

Oliver is being severely discounted around here because of 1 or 2 extremely frustrating habits he has picked up. But over the last 3 years there's not many players in the AFL that have had his influence inside the contest.

Winning clearances and contested ball for fun is no mean feat. Essendon haven't had a good inside mid since Jobe Watson and continually struggle at the pointy end of the year because of it.

Oliver has had a very rapid rise from a porky 17 year old. He's currently going through a dip in form (which coincidentally started after double shoulder reco), I don't think it'll last for that long. Mechanically he's still a good kick, even if he's an awful kick at the moment.

I'm glad we have both of them. Brayshaw i'm not as sure about - not sure if he has the drive of Trac/Clarry to better himself.

Would be keen on Brodie Smith

EDIT: Z Williams is a free agent I believe.

Rubbish, Trac could clearly do things that Oliver couldn't for a few years it's just he was only doing them sporadically.

 

[markm106]

Once Oliver gets the confidence Trac has now he’ll be a different player. He too quickly falls into panic mode. And then it’s self preservation with 1 meter handballs to a stationary player. There’s a few of our players that do that.

 

[Topkent]

People don't seem to understand the premise of the trade Oliver idea.

It's not because Oliver's s**t, it's because when you have 33 inside midfielders then you should trade one for some assets and I personally don't think Oliver's best is that much greater than Vineys or Brayshaws.
As much as I hate Brayshaw Oliver's never played footy like Gus did at the back end of 18.

 

[HANDSOLO]

People don't seem to understand the premise of the trade Oliver idea.

It's not because Oliver's sh*t, it's because when you have 33 inside midfielders then you should trade one for some assets and I personally don't think Oliver's best is that much greater than Vineys or Brayshaws.
As much as I hate Brayshaw Oliver's never played footy like Gus did at the back end of 18.

Well, I thought your more persuasive point was we would get more for Oliver, and the others are close enough in what they offer.

 

[00Stinger]

Petracca and Oliver couldn't be two more opposite midfielders.

His comparison is right though

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[ABray10]

People don't seem to understand the premise of the trade Oliver idea.

It's not because Oliver's sh*t, it's because when you have 33 inside midfielders then you should trade one for some assets and I personally don't think Oliver's best is that much greater than Vineys or Brayshaws.
As much as I hate Brayshaw Oliver's never played footy like Gus did at the back end of 18.

Exactly, we might get more for Oliver purely due to speculative upside value. However if we trade him we pass that risk on, Viney is playing better at the moment anyway and agree Brayshaw was better at the end of 2018. Although he still wasted a lot of ball.

Viney has actually really impressed me this year by improving his decision making, often holding the ball a bit longer and finding an open short target he is capable of hitting instead of blazing away

 

[The Dr]

Wouldn’t trade Oliver for picks to take to the draft. Only possibly way I’d want to see him traded would be if it resulted in an elite player in an area of need (Whitfield etc)

(FWIW I’d prefer to trade Brayshaw or let Viney walk as a FA).


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[pjfairbairn]

Wouldn’t trade Oliver for picks to take to the draft. Only possibly way I’d want to see him traded would be if it resulted in an elite player in an area of need (Whitfield etc)

(FWIW I’d prefer to trade Brayshaw or let Viney walk as a FA).


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I wouldn't let Viney walk as a FA - but agree with the rest of your post

 

[The Dr]

I wouldn't let Viney walk as a FA - but agree with the rest of your post

I probably should’ve mentioned (depending on the compo). If it’s a first round compensation pick and we finish down the bottom, it might be worth it.


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[ABray10]

Doubt Viney is going to walk, seems like he loves the club. Also right now if you had to take one of Viney or Oliver out of the team, we would be better if it was Oliver out.

Not saying we should trade anyone though, and if we do it might come down to who wants to / is trying to leave

 

[stEdy]

Plenty of people wanted Trac traded the last few years because he was a tease and still had currency.

 

[Topkent]

Nah see it'll never happen, but out club has lived in mediocrity for 50 years because we see a player like Oliver who's good at one aspect of footy and think he is the king. Same as Scully, same as watts and same as Hogan. Other clubs could find and Oliver with a 50s pick. He's good at getting the ball and giving it to someone else, that's his whole skill set.